Wing Chun - share your thoughts/experiences...if you've heard of it.

[doppelganga196]

So, i just began practicing wing chun - a self defence martial art.

I'm looking for something to help occupy my mind during a dificult time being 23 & on methadone after an extreme addiction to painkillers which graduated for a few weeks to heroin.

So that means lately i've been more level headed & less erratic being able to live normally apart from having to visit a pharmacy once a day for the past 5 weeks.

Therefore i'm trying to channel my anger & sadness into this tai chi like martial art.

Anybody here have any experience with wing chun, or even any other martial arts, as a hobby to keep you active during a period of recovery?

 

[Dave]

Paging rm-rf!

A coworker of mine, back when I was in school, started practising wing chun and loved it. I kept meaning to check it out, but the place was in the middle of nowhere, and I had no wheels (and a shitty transit system to boot). It's on the list of things that I'd like to try once I can get over my illness and back into fitness.

 

[freddy47]

Congrats dude on taking up this martial art. I've been in the same boat as you, been clean from heroin myself for about 10 and a half months now.

Anyway I grew up in a Chinese family and from a very young age my parents made me go to kung fu classes. I'm 24 now. I've trained in various forms of martial arts not just limited to Kung Fu but also boxing, a little bit of Judo, and recently been trying to find a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu school. Wing Chun has been a small hobby of mine mainly because it was Bruce Lee's first art that he ever trained and mastered. I've only trained with a couple of instructors so my knowledge isn't that great. But I always found the Chi Sau element to be most helpful especially when blindfolded. There is something really relaxing and empowering in Chi Sau training.

Therefore i'm trying to channel my anger & sadness into this tai chi like martial art.

Martial arts are a great way of channeling all this negative energy into something useful. For me especially sparring helps but depending on the type of Wing Chun School you might not get much if any sparring in. Chi Sau might be enough for you though. It's just for me competition makes me feel better. And oddly enough sometimes getting hit wakes me up and makes me feel alive. Weird I know but that is one thing I've always found helpful.

Your location says you are in London. Look up Samuel Kwok, he is the best Wing Chun instructor I've ever seen. Learned from the same guy as Bruce Lee (well actually learned from his son but close enough). He has several schools in England. I'm not sure where though. Here is a link.

http://www.kwokwingchun.co.uk/about-samuel-kwok

If you have any questions about Chinese martial arts or anything feel free to PM me. Good luck

 

[modern buddha]

I personally know that Tai Ki is a great form of martial arts for the mind and for the body. I have never tried Wing Chun, but assume it's much the same -- calming, improves flexibility and offers other benefits in the mental region.

 

[Dave]

Not so much like Tai Chi. It's centred around (although not exclusively) the practise of Chi Sau or 'sticky hands'; basically redirecting an assailants blows. It looks like slap-fighting, but is apparently incredibly efficient. In addition, there is lots of work with the wooden dummy to build speed and coordination. There are also forms and such (from what I've heard) that are taught, that parallel more offensive systems: blows, kicks, and weapon-work at higher levels. Sparring too, of course.

Tai Chi, IIRC, is pretty well individual form-work, right?

 

[modern buddha]

^ Yes, it is. I guess that's the racist part of me talking. Hahaha. "If it sounds like the same language, it must mean the same thing!"

Silly me.

 

[freddy47]

Not so much like Tai Chi. It's centred around (although not exclusively) the practise of Chi Sau or 'sticky hands'; basically redirecting an assailants blows. It looks like slap-fighting, but is apparently incredibly efficient. In addition, there is lots of work with the wooden dummy to build speed and coordination. There are also forms and such (from what I've heard) that are taught, that parallel more offensive systems: blows, kicks, and weapon-work at higher levels. Sparring too, of course.

Tai Chi, IIRC, is pretty well individual form-work, right?

Tai Chi and Wing Chun have some similarities. Tai Chi is an internal (soft) and external (hard) art much like Wing Chun but they differ on fighting philosophy. Both styles employ a similar way of practicing. Wing Chun as you correctly noted practices Chi Sau while Tai Chi uses tuī shǒu meaning "push hands", both require a partner. Other styles that use push hands are Baguazhang and Xingyiquan (among others) which are also internal arts.

The difference between sticky hands and push hands is the objective. In sticky hands you are trying to dominate your opponents center line while defending your own. In push hands you are trying to get your opponent off balance and make him/her stumble or fall. I am way over simplifying here but you get the picture. In more advanced push hands they teach joint locks and grappling also known in Chinese as Chin na which is roughly translated to mean to grasp or to hold. Sadly Chin Na (which actually employs techniques similar to Judo Ne waza and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu ground fighting) is a dying art amongst Kung fu practitioners today.

Wing Chun philosophy is about controlling your opponents center line. And also attacking while defending at the same time. It is very aggressive. It is not uncommon to see a WC fighter rush into grappling range and try to land a barrage of punches.

Tai Chi philosophy is similar to Judo in some ways in that you use your opponents energy against him. In Tai Chi it is important to know when to yield and when to push back.

 

[Lost Ego]

So, i just began practicing wing chun - a self defence martial art.

I'm looking for something to help occupy my mind during a dificult time being 23 & on methadone after an extreme addiction to painkillers which graduated for a few weeks to heroin.

So that means lately i've been more level headed & less erratic being able to live normally apart from having to visit a pharmacy once a day for the past 5 weeks.

Therefore i'm trying to channel my anger & sadness into this tai chi like martial art.

Anybody here have any experience with wing chun, or even any other martial arts, as a hobby to keep you active during a period of recovery?

yes dude! i kung fu. I started when i was trying to get sober. i practice hung gar. i took one class of wing chun and it was interesting, a completely different way to look at things, they focus alot on angles to control the center line and short but fast power. i much prefer hung gar where we aim to end it in one strike and its so hard to explain how it works because i dont entirely understand the theory of it, if i did i could make my own form. i see fighting with hung gar like chess, wing chun is a bit different, you feel it rather than envision it. idk how to describe it but anyways, wing chun is a short form in term of range and application of torque where as hung gar is a bit longer of a form. i dont care for how few kicks they have in wing chun but ehh it's a cool art anyways. if you've seen ip man, you know what im talking about, i wouldn't mind being a master in wing chun but at the same time i dont think i could use it in the ufc [a goal of mine].

as for taking your mind off the drugs, it will definitely give u a new focal point which will help immensely in your recovery. put everything into your training until you sweat blood and before long u'll forget what drugs even were

 

[freddy47]

^Hung Gar is pretty fucking sweet. That was my first style growing up. The tiger and crane work well together IMO.

i wouldn't mind being a master in wing chun but at the same time i dont think i could use it in the ufc [a goal of mine].

A lot of martial arts that might work on the street don't work in the octagon for so many reasons. Rules in the octagon IMO limits what a fight can be.

Kung fu nowadays is seriously lacking in grappling and needs to reconnect with it's Chin Na roots if it is to survive nowadays. It has degenerated IMO to basically Kick boxing or Sanshou.

i dont care for how few kicks they have in wing chun but ehh it's a cool art anyways.

Yeah there isn't really that many kicks aside from the front kick and push kick and the side kick. Wing Chun is all about straight lines of attack and advance. You won't see a Wing Chun fighter throw round house kicks to the face and such.

 

[Lost Ego]

Kung fu nowadays is seriously lacking in grappling and needs to reconnect with it's Chin Na roots if it is to survive nowadays. It has degenerated IMO to basically Kick boxing or Sanshou.

I would have to agree. My si fu uses alot of chin na when we're fucking around but he never really taught it, i learned most of it from just watching and then i took aikido and applyed it there xD. I really enjoyed using it, it worked very well against aikido kids. As soon as i get the money i wanna go back and train more, let my sifu check out my form that i've been practicing, spar with some old buddys and just get back into it all - see what else he has to offer me.

A lot of martial arts that might work on the street don't work in the octagon for so many reasons. Rules in the octagon IMO limits what a fight can be.

true but i think street fights are more limited, you can't attack them when they're on the ground, if you know martial arts (black belt at least) it's assault with a deadly weapon. And i'd prefer to be able to use it in the octagon because of how much experience that could give me.

 

[Arnold222]

I have only qualified with a number of trainers so my understanding isn't that excellent. But I always discovered the Chi Sau factor to be most beneficial especially when blindfolded. There is something really calming and strengthening in Chi Sau exercising....

 

[freddy47]

I would have to agree. My si fu uses alot of chin na when we're fucking around but he never really taught it, i learned most of it from just watching and then i took aikido and applyed it there xD. I really enjoyed using it, it worked very well against aikido kids. As soon as i get the money i wanna go back and train more, let my sifu check out my form that i've been practicing, spar with some old buddys and just get back into it all - see what else he has to offer me.

Yeah it's really sad considering Chin Na if perfected and practiced could match any other grappling art. Sadly it is just so unpopular amongst Kung Fu practitioners to grapple mainly because it doesn't look "pretty" enough. I blame wushu. Wushu although a beautiful art in itself is NOT a combat art. Sanshou is diluted to where it is pretty much Muay Thai with a different set of rules. Kung fu needs to be what it was before the Communist era and the Cultural revolution.

Personally I think to accomplish this the community should revive the Lei Tai set of rules mixed with MMA rules. Not only that but perhaps even bring back weapons competitions, weapons sparring and the like. Maybe call it Chinese fencing or whatever. That will revive Kung Fu IMO.

true but i think street fights are more limited, you can't attack them when they're on the ground, if you know martial arts (black belt at least) it's assault with a deadly weapon. And i'd prefer to be able to use it in the octagon because of how much experience that could give me.

Sure but in a street fight chances are you are fighting for your life so I wouldn't hold back at all. If someone is trying to hurt me or my family I'm gonna go all out and deal with the consequences later.

But I see what you're saying. If you want to fight in the octagon I'd go with Sanda or Sanshou. And Judo or Jiu Jitsu for grappling.

Edit: Also I grew up training in traditional schools that didn't believe in belt colors or ranks. My first sifu always said after the first punch your belt is the last god damn thing you'll be thinking about.

 

[rm-rf]

paged... funny how my eyes can spot strings like 'wing chun' in a pile of text better than a stacked woman in a crowd...

i dont know much about wing chun other than its lineage and fundamental purpose. i believe it was designed to be a simple (re: DOES NOT MEAN INEFFECTIVE!) system to teach so that many people can learn it quickly; designed for village defense situations, when whole crowds of people need to be taught to fend off bandits et all in a short amount of time. also the stance principles are entirely different from anything i know. that being said i have much respect for any soft style, and am well aware it has the most potential for lethality.

i do know enough to know that tai chi and wing chun arent much alike. the breathing disciplines are very different, the styles of stances, strikes produced, methodologies, favored techniques, etc, are only similar in that theyre both "chinese." their origins are potentially hundreds of years apart. one is not better than the other, but if you want to have a capability quickly, wing chun is the choice. tai chi is quite lethal, ive had a teacher breathe on me and nock be back before, however, its a lifelong endeavor to reach such a discipline. you can be proficient in wing chun in a matter of weeks, it all depends on how dedicated your spirit is.

for the purposes stated in the OP - youre in the right place. the discipline you will be faced with will provide all the answers you are looking for in time. all you need is faith, and a will to make yourself better. only one thing: this isnt a hobby, its a lifestyle. you must fully dedicate and envelop your spirit in this practice. you must become the energy you are being taught. you should work towards having every energy your body emits relate, in some way, to preserving your own energy and increasing your personal vitality (note: rest and relaxation are key elements to this process!). all im stating that it isnt a hobby, its an all or nothing journey.

i sit here, dripping sweat all over my keyboard, resting from just doing a few hundred kicks on my roof in the blazing hot sun. its better than drugs, trust me. people who meet me in my life now judge me and think im some kind of turbo militant who has always been this way. they diddnt see the decade of self destructive behavior that led me to The Way. ive been to the bottom and now im racing to the top. all it requires is a desire, a need to be better.

oss!

 

[i against i]

this thread has resolved me to sign up with this class i was thinking of taking. is £40/month 1 session a week good price? i have never done anything of this kind.

 

[freddy47]

^Lets see 40 pounds is what like 80 dollars? That is monthly so 1 session a week. That sounds OK but not great. I think you are being overpriced personally. What is important is that they actually teach you something.

There are a lot of Mcdojos out there who just want to teach you bullshit and you end up not learning anything but a few pretty forms.

Also just saying you won't learn all that much just taking one session a week. I would suggest 2 maybe even 3 session a week if you want to gain anything out of it.

Also if you want to learn Wing Chung. Look for Samuel Kwok schools. He has a bunch in the UK. They don't charge more than 10 pounds I think and as low as 5 pounds per class and the first lesson is usually free. Stay away from any school claiming affiliation with William Cheung. The guy is a fraud and can't fight his way out of a paper bag.

tai chi is quite lethal, ive had a teacher breathe on me and nock be back before,

Sorry but I have to call bullshit on that. I have seen way too many fake Tai Chi teachers pull that shit before and it is always bullshit. You can't just breathe on someone and knock someone away that is not how martial arts are practiced I don't care how strong your "chi" is.

IME with Tai Chi Masters are very humble and don't ever say they have "Chi" powers. If anybody reading this runs into a Tai Chi teacher who talks too much about Chi and not enough about technique then I suggest you walk away. Because they are just after your money. That said Tai Chi is not best for learning self defense quickly. The only people I have ever seen use Tai Chi effectively in sparring are people who have studied it extensively for several years. Not to say that it is ineffective just hard to master.

Also to those interested in Wing Chung. Avoid the William Cheung lineage. The guy is something of a fraud. Claims to have trained with Bruce Lee yaddy yaddy yadda. And also avoid like the plague any instructor who seriously talks about knowing or knows of Dim Mak or "death touch". That is usually a big indicator that the guy is full of shit. You can't kill people with a simple touch to a pressure point. You just can't.

i dont know much about wing chun other than its lineage and fundamental purpose. i believe it was designed to be a simple (re: DOES NOT MEAN INEFFECTIVE!) system to teach so that many people can learn it quickly; designed for village defense situations, when whole crowds of people need to be taught to fend off bandits et all in a short amount of time. also the stance principles are entirely different from anything i know. that being said i have much respect for any soft style, and am well aware it has the most potential for lethality.

Much of Wing Chun's origin is shrouded in myth and legend like a lot of martial arts in China. The most accepted story is that it was founded by rebels who wanted a quick and efficient fighting system during the Qing dynasty that could be mastered inside of 5 to 7 years.

That and a story about a shaolin nun and some girl who was betrothed to someone she didn't want to be or something. Personally I think the rebel story makes more sense.

 

[i against i]

^Lets see 40 pounds is what like 80 dollars? That is monthly so 1 session a week. That sounds OK but not great. I think you are being overpriced personally. What is important is that they actually teach you something.

There are a lot of Mcdojos out there who just want to teach you bullshit and you end up not learning anything but a few pretty forms.

Also just saying you won't learn all that much just taking one session a week. I would suggest 2 maybe even 3 session a week if you want to gain anything out of it.

Also if you want to learn Wing Chung. Look for Samuel Kwok schools. He has a bunch in the UK. They don't charge more than 10 pounds I think and as low as 5 pounds per class and the first lesson is usually free. Stay away from any school claiming affiliation with William Cheung. The guy is a fraud and can't fight his way out of a paper bag.

k thanks. that kwok dude doesn't have any things near me. this seems like the most professional outfit near me atm as i'm in the middle of nowhere-ish. moving back to london in a couple months so think will just be like a taster of the martial arts as i've never done anything before.

 

[freddy47]

^No prob man glad to help.

It's cool that you want to try out different arts, see what works for you. There are things you need to avoid though so you won't get swindled out of your money. I'm too tired right now to make a list but if you want I will PM you with a list of things to watch out for with Martial Arts schools. Just let me know via PM or whatever. Or I'll just come back later and make a list... if I remember haha.

Legitimacy is a hard thing to judge in the martial arts world when you are first starting out. I've seen many a con artist try to pass of their brand of bullshit as legit fighting arts. I have no tolerance for it. So just be careful.

 

[doppelganga196]

actually 40 pounds is more like 200 dollars these days.

Anyway, beeing learinging about blocks in wing chun today. bong sau or something like that. Pretty effecttive technique

 

[freddy47]

lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDM3HPzWg_s&feature=relmfu Sifu Kwok on Bong Sau technique and other blocking and striking techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3jJ-lb7N8A&feature=relmfu Sifu Kwok and the late great master of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Carlson Gracie cross training students. Real great video.

 

[Nocks]

I did Wing Chun for three years, and it was a great way to get a workout and a pretty useful martial art. It is less graceful and artsy than most other forms of Kung Fu, and is based more on geometry and the practical application of force than, say, Tai-Chi or contemporary Wushu styles, etc. If you are really interested in self-defense, I would probably combine it with some jujitsu or other ground-fighting to really round out your self-defense skills. It is a wonderful martial art and I wish you well with it.