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Will this plane fly??

If you were talking about a car with wings (and the wheels were pushing the car forward on the conveyor) then no, the fucking piece of shit would not move or be able to take off.
What makes that riddle so gay is the fact that planes move forward from the jet engine thrust, and not the wheels so the conveyor wouldn't affect shit. I didn't think about that at all when I first read it.
 
THR: You cant assume zero friction. Gravity is affecting the plane, pushing it down.

Plane moves at x m/s
The conveyor belt moves at -x m/s

its not moving!
 
KemicalBurn said:
THR: You cant assume zero friction. Gravity is affecting the plane, pushing it down.

Plane moves at x m/s
The conveyor belt moves at -x m/s

its not moving!
Click to expand...

Yes, it is 8(

It's so simple.

MazDan: You just wanted to start an argument!!
 
Friction from gravity (static friction) would be pretty much negligible once the engine thrust started pushing the plane forward. Friction plays no role in this problem . That's the trick.
 
Friction would be entirely more relevant if it was a car. But it's not. It's a plane.
 
NO I didnt want to start an argument.

actually the opposite is true.

At that other forum they just seem to start paying out on people if you dont simply accept there point of view.

I wont just accept that what someone says is right just cos they say it.

I have a desire to understand.

I have always found the people here at BL are more patient and helpful and that for me has turned out to be true.

Please dont attack KB cos I know where he is at..........I was there not long ago.........just help him to work it through and be patient.

Thanks.
 
Not attacking him. He's more than entitled to rebut our point of view. And the debate is quite enjoyable :)
 
No one is attacking anyone. We're just tryin to explain. When I first read the problem I thought the plane would not move or take off. Once you realize the jet engines move the plane and not the wheels, it changes the whole problem.
 
KB..........This is how I finally understood.

I stopped simply believing I was right and then decided to try to understand what the other side were saying...........I then kept asking questionms as If I had no point of view but simply wanted to fully understand all the logic in there argument.

It worked. Still took a while but yep im now convinced..........well i think I am..........lol.............must admit im still trying to get my head arround it all.
 
GammaHBamma said:
Friction from gravity (static friction) would be pretty much negligible once the engine thrust started pushing the plane forward. Friction plays no role in this problem . That's the trick.
Click to expand...

If you want to get *right* into this, then lets :)

The longer the plane stays on this conveyor belt, the longer the wheels are in contact with it.

moving at whatever rate you like, those wheels are gonna heat up.

then what happens? they become soft and expand = increasing the surface area of the tire. slowing the plane down.

plane increases power to jet engines to counter this drag.

tires continue heating up.

then what happens? they explode.

then what happens? that plane aint going anywhere.

experiment fails, and KB wins ;)

also, another point, The plane would expend more fuel simply getting off the ground that even if it were to become airborne (which it wont, but lets assume) then it would be airborne for very long indeed.

the more power the engines use to reach the required acceleration and for the friction to become irrelevant, the more is wasted.
 
OK, what would happen if we were to talk about the concept in terms of distance travelled (ie revolutions of the wheels) instead of speed.

So now, for each revolution of a wheel the conyeyor makes one equal distance movement backwards.

Does that change anything?

hmmm, actually it seems to support KB more doesnt it?
 
KemicalBurn said:
If you want to get *right* into this, then lets :)

The longer the plane stays on this conveyor belt, the longer the wheels are in contact with it.

moving at whatever rate you like, those wheels are gonna heat up.

then what happens? they become soft and expand = increasing the surface area of the tire. slowing the plane down.

plane increases power to jet engines to counter this drag.

tires continue heating up.

then what happens? they explode.

then what happens? that plane aint going anywhere.

experiment fails, and KB wins ;)

also, another point, The plane would expend more fuel simply getting off the ground that even if it were to become airborne (which it wont, but lets assume) then it would be airborne for very long indeed.

the more power the engines use to reach the required acceleration and for the friction to become irrelevant, the more is wasted.
Click to expand...

The plane would need to reach a very high takeoff speed for that to occur. Your clutching at straws now, Mister.

Plus, everything there is outside of the equation. Sure, it's obviously not an ideal situation as it is makes less efficient for the plane to take off, but it doesn't prevent it from doing so.
 
To continue that idea further......... in order for the plane to take off it has to first move relative to the earth and hence forward but each rotation is counteracted by a revolution back...........so if the plane does move forward and take off........what happenned to those revolutions? Why didnt the conveyor take them up??

Damned Im even more confused now.
 
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