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Will this plane fly??

^^ But its position does not stay the same. That's the whole point. It's not the wheels that are moving the plane - the wheels are just there to ensure it can move.
 
it's position relative to what? the ground? the plane is moving relative to the ground. it DOES have displacement. the source for acceleration comes from the propeller, not the wheels.
 
Thats why its called "ficticious" - its misleading.

technically, yes it is moving forward - but in application and for all intents and purposes, its not.

any displacement made by the plane is cancelled out due to the conveyor belt operating at exactly the same speed as the plane.

if you were to stand next to the plane (off the conveyor belt), what do you suppose would be moving faster; you, or the plane?
 
so are you agreeing that the plane will physically move forward... go from point "a" to point "b"??
 
^its very obvious that it will not move from any point.

By your logic, you could take off and fly at any moment.

And i think a couple people here need to refresh themselves with the difference between "velocity" and "acceleration" - they are not the same thing.
 
bGIveNs33 said:
think of it this way... say you are on a treadmill with rollerblades. the treadmill is going at 200 mph(really strong rollerblades). you could grab the handrail(the propeller) and still move forward against the treadmill because the wheels serve no purpose in terms of acceleration. the plane will move foward fine.
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Thankyou so much.

This is the best explanation I have received yet.

I understand exactly what your saying however i also see a flaw.

Unless you maintain your hold, then the conveyor would pull you back by an ammount equal to gravity or friction only correct? (ie the old pull the tablecloth trick)

However lets say the conveyor was actually able to move faster than what the propellor can drag the plane forward.......... as the props turn they are acting as the hand on the rails and pulling forward but eventually wouldnt a sp[eed be reached whereby each movement of the prop was in fact matched by the conveyor?

I dunno if that makes sense and we are probably talking really silly speeds here but still.
 
right... velocity is rate of change in position, and acceleration is change in velocity. but these points are irrelevent. the bottom line is that the conveyor belt doesn't effect anything. the plane will still have velocity and it will still accelerate. are you still holding to the fact that the plane will have zero displacement?
 
right... but then that would just be a matter of friction. and yes, we are talking about silly speeds.
 
The riddle is intentionally misleading. If you realize that the plane's acceleration comes from the engine thrust and not the wheels, then yes the plane will take off. The conveyor has no effect on the engine thrust and becomes irrelevant. The wheels aren't applying any force - they just allow the plane to move.
 
While the plane is grounded, it is in contact with the conveyor belt. the conveyor belts displacement its a direct opposite to the planes.

What you are implying is for us to ignore that the plane is in contact with it and it will move forward regardless.

This simply isnt the case. Your rollerblade/treadmill analogy is weak - here's why:

*the conveyor belt moves in the opposite direction of the plane and at exact the same speed.

*your analogy doesnt take into account that if the pilot were to get out and push (which is the basis of your analogy) you arent taking into account that the conveyor belt will counter-act this by speeding up. which has already been stated that it will.

the conveyor belt isnt at a set speed of 200 m/h. it adjusts to the planes speed and adjusts so that the resultant outcome always equals zero.

there are other flaws, but the plane isnt moving in relation to its global position, no movement = no acceleration = no flying.
 
bGIveNs33 said:
right... but then that would just be a matter of friction. and yes, we are talking about silly speeds.
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haha, I was just about to answer that therefore taking it to its nth degree then it is fact that the plane would not take off.

But then another concept occurred to me.

The question states that the conveyor is neither goling faster nor slower than the plane.........its going at the exact same speed.

Hence the conveyor wont travel at silly warp speeds because the plane (depending on what type it is) may only need as little as 50MPH or so to take off..........obviously more for a large jet.

Now if the question said travelling at the same speed as the wheels then maybe a different story I guess as now exponential becomes a relevant possibility????


Have i understood all of that correctly?
 
I am confused. Would the "It will fly" lobby explain what force will cause this plane to rise from the ground given that it is not moving forward at all?
 
JeffreyDahmer said:
I am confused. Would the "It will fly" lobby explain what force will cause this plane to rise from the ground given that it is not moving forward at all?
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It is moving forward. That's the entire point.
 
JeffreyDahmer said:
I am confused. Would the "It will fly" lobby explain what force will cause this plane to rise from the ground given that it is not moving forward at all?
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What they are saying...........and it has taken me a long time to get my head arround this.........is that the conveyor cant stop the plane from moving forward..........see the above post from someone who explained it to me using roller skates and it helps to understand whats happenning.

Or does it........damnned I am having second thoughts again.
 
The plane will move forward and then take off. Trust me on this shit, I'm a physics major. What you have to realize is that THE WHEELS DON"T APPLY ANY FORCE TO MOVE THE PLANE FORWARD. The plane will move forward because of the thrust from the jet, which is unaffected by the conveyor.

It doesn't matter if the conveyor is moving twice as fast as the plane in the opposite direction. Once the engine thrust starts pushing the plane, it will move forward relative to it's position on the Earth, UNNAFFECTED BY THE CONVEYOR. The wheels will just spin faster as the conveyor moves under the plane. The conveyor won't affect the planes forward motion in any way.

I hope that helps. If you still can't see why the plane takes off, take a few semesters of college physics until it makes sense.
 
Physics major, eh? guess what, so was I =D

Now go back and read the bloody question: the conveyor belt moves at the speed of the plane, not the wheels.
 
The conveyer belt is irrelevant with the very minor exception the conveyor belt is touching the wheels. The wheels have no impact - they merely allow the plane to move down the runway and will just rotate. They do not have sufficient grip/traction to prevent the plane from moving or taking off.
 
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