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Will Someone Please Explain this Rampant Hateful Aggressive “Gnostic Christianity” to Me?

Opi_Kid_Rock said:
I thought Gnostic Christians were primarily non-believers in the literal and historical existence of Jesus but believed that “the Kingdom of Heaven” was within each of us as a higher self that could be achieved while on earth.
Click to expand...
What do you see?

Are you ready to know that this reality and world, here and now, is evolving perfection?

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
Redemption found by using a scapegoat.
Click to expand...
This solidified some thoughts that has bothered me for a loooong time. If we can use a scapegoat there is no need to make changes where we are lacking. Hypocrisy, and although everyone can walk around looking down their noses at others because of their piety... it is only a matter of time before the system ultimate fails. How would taking a life make us any more "godly"? Even the logic isn't in this in my opinion.
Give 'em hell, GB. Welcome back and although I may not agree with some content being anti-"norm" is attractive.
IMO... as a species we are far from stupid. We may only know what we are taught but there comes a time when we must stop being so lazy and find answers for ourselves.
 
6am-64-14m said:
This solidified some thoughts that has bothered me for a loooong time. If we can use a scapegoat there is no need to make changes where we are lacking. Hypocrisy, and although everyone can walk around looking down their noses at others because of their piety... it is only a matter of time before the system ultimate fails. How would taking a life make us any more "godly"? Even the logic isn't in this in my opinion.
Give 'em hell, GB. Welcome back and although I may not agree with some content being anti-"norm" is attractive.
IMO... as a species we are far from stupid. We may only know what we are taught but there comes a time when we must stop being so lazy and find answers for ourselves.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the support and yes, lazy superficial thinking is what the vast majority do.

It was a lot better before supernatural thinking ruined things.

I hope you can see how intelligent the ancients were as compared to the mental efforts that modern preachers and theists are using with the literal reading of myths.

https://bigthink.com/videos/what-is-god-2-2

Further.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/03132009/watch.html

Rabbi Hillel, the older contemporary of Jesus, said that when asked to sum up the whole of Jewish teaching, while he stood on one leg, said, "The Golden Rule. That which is hateful to you, do not do to your neighbor. That is the Torah. And everything else is only commentary. Now, go and study it."

Please listen as to what is said about the literal reading of myths.

"Origen, the great second or third century Greek commentator on the Bible said that it is absolutely impossible to take these texts literally. You simply cannot do so. And he said, "God has put these sort of conundrums and paradoxes in so that we are forced to seek a deeper meaning."

Matt 7;12 So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

This is how early Gnostic Christians view the transition from reading myths properly to destructive literal reading and idol worship.



Regards
DL
 
Atomic_Decay said:
While the poor fellow is on yet another temporary ban I thought I’d contribute to @gnostic Bishop’s evangelical one-man war on the world’s billion or so Christians by starting a thread to explain what he describes as the best religion ever invented - Gnosticism or Gnostic Christianity as it is sometimes called, although its links to Jesus Christ are not necessarily integral to it’s beliefs and practices. I’m kind of writing this out to get the facts straight in my own head, so I can argue better with old GB if/when they let him back in.

I am not a Christian myself and I do not go to church - so this isn’t personal justification. I just get irritated by people who use fake history, outright bullshit, and ideology to slander groups they hate on the internet. Feel free to add anything you additional information you like and correct any errors I make (there will likely be a few)

For the purposes of clarity, when I refer to ‘Christians’ in what follows I am talking about mainstream organised religions - not small independent non-denominational or evangelical churches/sects/missions such as you often find in the US. Christians here means essentially:

1. Early Christians - who were also often also Jews or Greeks of various religious and philosophical sects/groups - who began to form the proto-Catholic Church. This is the period of AD 33-AD 313 (when with the Edict of Milan, Emperor Constantine made Christianity officially legal and thereafter the de facto official religion of Rome.

2. The Catholic Church. Many people today forget or never knew that the ONLY Christians from the 2nd to 11th centuries were effectively ‘Roman’ Catholics. In the 11th Century the Great Schism occurred and the Eastern Orthodox Church split from the Roman Church. It is during this long period that the Roman Church debated doctrine and dogma and determined what was official and what was heresy. Consequently there were groups from to time time - sometimes backed by political power/kings etc - who called themselves Catholics/Christians but who held views that the offical Church did not endorse. These groups were either brought into the Church, expelled from Catholic regions, or occasionally imprisoned or executed.

3. Catholics Vs Protestants (beginning with Lutherans): in the Reformation during the 16th Century in Europe many groups abandoned Catholicism due to longstanding doctrinal and political concerns and denied Catholicism was the only legitimate form of Christianity. These groups eventually coalesced into the main Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Episcopal, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and Wesleyan). This is effectively who I mean by modern-day Protestant Christians.

It is vitally important to recognise that making totalising claims about ‘Christians’ - such as GB does when he (endlessly) says “the Christian God is a genocidal homophobic misogynistic monster” is really pointless and intellectual barren. Christianity has ALWAYS been in a state of flux as it faces diverse ideas and either incorporates them or itself fractures along doctrinal lines forming new churches/factions/sects etc.

It is also vitally important to recognise that “Church” and “Christians” are not the same thing. The “Church” is the institutional body that controls doctrine and dogma. “Christians” are people who identify as being members of a Church but who accept and practice the rules of that Church to varying degrees. For example: the Catholic Church says contraception is a mortal sin, yet every Catholic woman I’ve ever fucked (and there are many) was on the pill. Similarly, Methodists are required to tithe 10 % of their income to their Church - but many do not and cheat on their tithing just like they do on their taxes.

Next Issue: Defining Gnosticism

Stay Tuned.
Click to expand...

After a cursory investigation into Gnostic Christianity, I concluded that it was a pre-modern attempt at what we would now call the field of psychology. They wanted to cut through the B.S. and self-deception of religion/spirituality and get down to the core of what drives human beings. Unfortunately, many of their theories are crackpot and I can't really take them seriously.

As far as I'm concerned, Gnostic Christianity accusing Christianity of anything is really pot meet kettle. Two basic bitches fighting over dog meat.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines gnosticism in catechism 285 as "According to some of these conceptions, the world (at least the physical world) is evil, the product of a fall, and is thus to be rejected or left behind (Gnosticism)."

That seems like a pretty simplified definition. It doesn't seem to necessarily have much to do with a lot of the claims that @Gnostic Bishop makes, but who knows what kind of things are taught in a Gnostic church. I've never even seen a "Gnostic church".

As a believer myself I find a lot of GB's claims to be disturbing and contrary to what I was taught all my life. I try not to engage about it much though.
 
Gnostic Bishop said:
What do you see?

Are you ready to know that this reality and world, here and now, is evolving perfection?

Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

Regards
DL
Click to expand...
What book are these Jesus quotes from?
 
simstim said:
The Catechism of the Catholic Church defines gnosticism in catechism 285 as "According to some of these conceptions, the world (at least the physical world) is evil, the product of a fall, and is thus to be rejected or left behind (Gnosticism)."

That seems like a pretty simplified definition. It doesn't seem to necessarily have much to do with a lot of the claims that @Gnostic Bishop makes, but who knows what kind of things are taught in a Gnostic church. I've never even seen a "Gnostic church".

As a believer myself I find a lot of GB's claims to be disturbing and contrary to what I was taught all my life. I try not to engage about it much though.
Click to expand...
Let me speak to the lie of Gnostic Christians hating matter.

I wrote this to refute the false notion that Gnostic Christians do not like matter and reality that the inquisitors propagated to justify their many murders of my religion’s originators. It shows that Christians should actually hate matter and not Gnostic Christians.

The Christian reality.

1 John 2:15Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Gen 3; 17 Thou shalt not eat of it; cursed is the ground for thy sake; in toil shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life.

-----------

The Gnostic Christian reality.

Gnostic Christian Jesus said, "Those who seek should not stop seeking until they find. When they find, they will be disturbed. When they are disturbed, they will marvel, and will reign over all.

[And after they have reigned they will rest.]"

"If those who attract you say, 'See, the Kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you.

If they say to you, 'It is under the earth,' then the fish of the sea will precede you.

Rather, the Kingdom of God is inside of you, and it is outside of you.

[Those who] become acquainted with [themselves] will find it; [and when you] become acquainted with yourselves, [you will understand that] it is you who are the sons of the living Father.

But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."

As you can see from that quote, if we see God's kingdom all around us and inside of us, we cannot think that the world is anything but evolving perfection. Most just don't see it and live in poverty. Let me try to make you see the world the way I do.

Here is a mind exercise. Tell me what you see when you look around. The best that can possibly be, given our past history, or an ugly and imperfect world?

Candide.
"It is demonstrable that things cannot be otherwise than as they are; for as all things have been created for some end, they must necessarily be created for the best end.”

That means that we live in the best of all possible worlds, because it is the only possible world, given all the conditions at hand and the history that got us here. That is an irrefutable statement given entropy and the anthropic principle.

As to our main teaching, it is that Yahweh is a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous prick of a God.

Moral people will agree with us, an immoral people will call evil good, the way Christians do.

You say that you are a believer that I am disturbing, yet you do not engage much.

I do not blame you, but wonder if you feel a duty to bring truth and good morals to your church?

I do for my original church, as I owe them a lot.

Regards
DL
 
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Foreigner said:
After a cursory investigation into Gnostic Christianity, I concluded that it was a pre-modern attempt at what we would now call the field of psychology. They wanted to cut through the B.S. and self-deception of religion/spirituality and get down to the core of what drives human beings. Unfortunately, many of their theories are crackpot and I can't really take them seriously.

As far as I'm concerned, Gnostic Christianity accusing Christianity of anything is really pot meet kettle. Two basic bitches fighting over dog meat.
Click to expand...
???

Yahweh is good to Christians and quite evil to us moral Gnostic Christians.

Check your colors, stupid.

If we are the same, why the inquisitions against us?

Regards
DL
 
simstim said:
What book are these Jesus quotes from?
Click to expand...
Mostly the Nag Hamady find has the best, but I often quote the Bible.

Who said a thing is not as important as the thing said though.

Do you follow the logic and reason I put or not?

Regards
DL
 
Personally I love Yahweh and Christ. I don't really a have a problem with Yahweh's values either.

I believe in Judaism as a foundation and wish that I had a stricter more Jewish upbringing that followed a Jewish diet, learned Hebrew, visited the holy land, and everything else that goes with that.

Unfortunately I grew up eating pork, drinking and drugging, and I know that I have broken other rules in the Old testament. I don't even know where to buy kosher food.

That leaves me with my faith in the New Covenant and hope for mercy through Christ. I'm trying to be a better person and not sin.

I have a strong foundation of faith and have read the entire Bible except for two of the Catholic books which I have not read yet. I have also read the entire catechism.

I did not grow up Catholic but reading catechism opened my eyes about allot of the churches beliefs. I pretty much believe Catholic now due to catechesis (the study of catechism). The book transformed my faith.

I did grow up attending church every Sunday, along with Sunday school, church camp every summer, reading the Bible, praying, I have three relatives that are ministers, my Dad went to two different Bible colleges, and even as an adult I continue to study the word and attend church.

I'm trying to get myself motivated into going more often than I have been. For awhile I was attending mass daily either in person or online. Doing the prayer at the hour of mercy daily, too. Rosaries...

I really feel different going to mass and have felt an intense presence and reverence for the Lord during private Eucharistic adoration. It is indescribable the way that i felt the first time I went to Eucharistic adoration. I felt as if I were possessed by a soldier of the Lord the entire time and I could literally feel the Lord's presence.

I couldn't even begin to explain how much church has helped me with my struggle against the people who judge against me. They are some other religion and keep trying to force me to follow their beliefs instead of what I was taught. I let myself be distracted and was weak a lot fairly recently, but not anymore.

It's very hard to get people who claim judgement for possession purposes for money to stop judging. Their shit is pretty twisted judging people as possessed for monetary reasons. They don't even care about the truth they just buy and sell people into prostitution and the Lord only knows what else.

They keep trying to get me possessed and when that fails they claim judgement and fuck people up for things like a cigarette or a beer, or lately even meat and cheese! I'm not even a member of their faith how can they judge?

I have faith that their lies and evil intentions will not prevail through the power of Christ our Lord. Without my faith I would have become their possession years ago, but with my faith I have resisted.

If any believers read this please help me to pray for the safety and strength of the Lord's Army and the Lord's Angels. I'm a very imperfect vessel, but I have faith in my ability to serve in some capacity in conjunction with those who serve the Lord.

These people do the work of the devil by making me ineffective through judgement and temptation.
 
Nope

Its nobody's business to explain
yours or anybody elses spiritual beliefs

not jerb
derrrp
 
simstim said:
Personally I love Yahweh and Christ. I don't really a have a problem with Yahweh's values either.

I believe in Judaism as a foundation and wish that I had a stricter more Jewish upbringing that followed a Jewish diet, learned Hebrew, visited the holy land, and everything else that goes with that.

Unfortunately I grew up eating pork, drinking and drugging, and I know that I have broken other rules in the Old testament. I don't even know where to buy kosher food.

That leaves me with my faith in the New Covenant and hope for mercy through Christ. I'm trying to be a better person and not sin.

I have a strong foundation of faith and have read the entire Bible except for two of the Catholic books which I have not read yet. I have also read the entire catechism.

I did not grow up Catholic but reading catechism opened my eyes about allot of the churches beliefs. I pretty much believe Catholic now due to catechesis (the study of catechism). The book transformed my faith.

I did grow up attending church every Sunday, along with Sunday school, church camp every summer, reading the Bible, praying, I have three relatives that are ministers, my Dad went to two different Bible colleges, and even as an adult I continue to study the word and attend church.

I'm trying to get myself motivated into going more often than I have been. For awhile I was attending mass daily either in person or online. Doing the prayer at the hour of mercy daily, too. Rosaries...

I really feel different going to mass and have felt an intense presence and reverence for the Lord during private Eucharistic adoration. It is indescribable the way that i felt the first time I went to Eucharistic adoration. I felt as if I were possessed by a soldier of the Lord the entire time and I could literally feel the Lord's presence.

I couldn't even begin to explain how much church has helped me with my struggle against the people who judge against me. They are some other religion and keep trying to force me to follow their beliefs instead of what I was taught. I let myself be distracted and was weak a lot fairly recently, but not anymore.

It's very hard to get people who claim judgement for possession purposes for money to stop judging. Their shit is pretty twisted judging people as possessed for monetary reasons. They don't even care about the truth they just buy and sell people into prostitution and the Lord only knows what else.

They keep trying to get me possessed and when that fails they claim judgement and fuck people up for things like a cigarette or a beer, or lately even meat and cheese! I'm not even a member of their faith how can they judge?

I have faith that their lies and evil intentions will not prevail through the power of Christ our Lord. Without my faith I would have become their possession years ago, but with my faith I have resisted.

If any believers read this please help me to pray for the safety and strength of the Lord's Army and the Lord's Angels. I'm a very imperfect vessel, but I have faith in my ability to serve in some capacity in conjunction with those who serve the Lord.

These people do the work of the devil by making me ineffective through judgement and temptation.
Click to expand...
If you love Yahweh and Christ, you must like St. Hitler and his ilk.

I do not like genocidal homophobic and misogynous prick Gods like you do.

Would you like to argue for their morals?

Most all the other people who profess to love that prick, Yahweh/Jesus, will not argue for his morals.

Do you have the balls?

You say you want to serve the Lord.

Step up or step aside, with your satanic garbage God.

Regards
DL
 
Foreigner said:
Christian sects have been trying to kill each other forever, over minuscule differences in ideology. To outsiders, you are all the same.
Click to expand...
To the religiously illiterate, indeed.

Those who know, know better.

It had a great theology before the stupidity of supernatural belief screwed it up.

Regards
DL
 
For whatever reason gnostic christianity differentiates and defines itself by ferocious opposition to and criticism of Christianity. They'd rather argue with and bait Christians than talk about their own religion, which, quite frankly, is boring.
 
Atomic_Decay said:
While the poor fellow is on yet another temporary ban I thought I’d contribute to @gnostic Bishop’s evangelical one-man war on the world’s billion or so Christians by starting a thread to explain what he describes as the best religion ever invented - Gnosticism or Gnostic Christianity as it is sometimes called, although its links to Jesus Christ are not necessarily integral to it’s beliefs and practices. I’m kind of writing this out to get the facts straight in my own head, so I can argue better with old GB if/when they let him back in.

I am not a Christian myself and I do not go to church - so this isn’t personal justification. I just get irritated by people who use fake history, outright bullshit, and ideology to slander groups they hate on the internet. Feel free to add anything you additional information you like and correct any errors I make (there will likely be a few)

For the purposes of clarity, when I refer to ‘Christians’ in what follows I am talking about mainstream organised religions - not small independent non-denominational or evangelical churches/sects/missions such as you often find in the US. Christians here means essentially:

1. Early Christians - who were also often also Jews or Greeks of various religious and philosophical sects/groups - who began to form the proto-Catholic Church. This is the period of AD 33-AD 313 (when with the Edict of Milan, Emperor Constantine made Christianity officially legal and thereafter the de facto official religion of Rome.

2. The Catholic Church. Many people today forget or never knew that the ONLY Christians from the 2nd to 11th centuries were effectively ‘Roman’ Catholics. In the 11th Century the Great Schism occurred and the Eastern Orthodox Church split from the Roman Church. It is during this long period that the Roman Church debated doctrine and dogma and determined what was official and what was heresy. Consequently there were groups from to time time - sometimes backed by political power/kings etc - who called themselves Catholics/Christians but who held views that the offical Church did not endorse. These groups were either brought into the Church, expelled from Catholic regions, or occasionally imprisoned or executed.

3. Catholics Vs Protestants (beginning with Lutherans): in the Reformation during the 16th Century in Europe many groups abandoned Catholicism due to longstanding doctrinal and political concerns and denied Catholicism was the only legitimate form of Christianity. These groups eventually coalesced into the main Protestant churches (Presbyterian, Episcopal, Lutheran, Baptist, Methodist and Wesleyan). This is effectively who I mean by modern-day Protestant Christians.

It is vitally important to recognise that making totalising claims about ‘Christians’ - such as GB does when he (endlessly) says “the Christian God is a genocidal homophobic misogynistic monster” is really pointless and intellectual barren. Christianity has ALWAYS been in a state of flux as it faces diverse ideas and either incorporates them or itself fractures along doctrinal lines forming new churches/factions/sects etc.

It is also vitally important to recognise that “Church” and “Christians” are not the same thing. The “Church” is the institutional body that controls doctrine and dogma. “Christians” are people who identify as being members of a Church but who accept and practice the rules of that Church to varying degrees. For example: the Catholic Church says contraception is a mortal sin, yet every Catholic woman I’ve ever fucked (and there are many) was on the pill. Similarly, Methodists are required to tithe 10 % of their income to their Church - but many do not and cheat on their tithing just like they do on their taxes.

Next Issue: Defining Gnosticism

Stay Tuned.
Click to expand...
I am orthodox and for real don't know the official position of the Church about contraception.Different church scholars or priests define it on his own way.But is not gnostic christianity in real term.Gnostic sects must me ofroots of this early stage of Christianity till 4 century A.D.
 
The Axe said:
For whatever reason gnostic christianity differentiates and defines itself by ferocious opposition to and criticism of Christianity. They'd rather argue with and bait Christians than talk about their own religion, which, quite frankly, is boring.
Click to expand...
True.

Talking of the good in Gnostic Christianity is boring, while immoral fools are adoring a genocidal, homophobic and misogynous God.

I prefer to fight that huge Christian evil instead of wasting time on promoting the better Gnostic Christianity.

Which of our more moral than Christian tenets would you like to learn about?

What is better, to convert a person to my moral religion, or to have an evil person become good?

Can you even make that judgement call?

I have.

Regards
DL




.
 
The Golden Rule and its variations is pretty much universal and common to all religions as far as I know. In secular terms its called the ethic of reciprocity. I don't need any further explanation to understand it I only need to practice it.
 
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