Why pro-pot activists oppose the 2010 tax cannabis initiative

If this passes, it can and will be the status-quo. It is benefiting the rich while maintaining a choke-hold on the consumers. Why would anyone up there want to change that?
 
Without knowing what kind of laws the municipalities will put in place you can't say that. I'm sure this law will evolve as well. As some cities that may have outright banned commercial sales see other municipalities benefiting from regulation they may in time choose to open up their city to regulation as well.

Nobody has enough information to say what will happen for sure.
 
atruestory said:
the whole point is that there will be no small companies producing. licencing will be difficult and costly to obtain, leaving joe schmoe to his 5x5 "parcel" to grow his one plant outdoors or run something in his closet.. barely... the law makes it illegal to smoke in public (which is legal now under prop 215 and sb 420) the law also makes it illegal to sell or possess any amount for sale unless licensed (all you need now is your doctors recomendation... and lets say you do get a license. im guessing you will have to fork over $50/ ounce(more), or sell to your small client base and risk being caught and charged with tax fraud or some shit.

the way the laws are now any californian can grow cannabis, smoke cannabis (anywhere and around anyone)... there is no tax, there is no 5x5 parcel bullshit, and there is no minimum wage being forced to people who currently make a living without the man stepping in, and stepping on fingers.
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You can't grow, possess, or smoke cannabis in CA with out a mmj perscription, which is hardly everyone in California. Also by saying that, you are just promoting a broken medical system as it being abused for those reasons! Abusing the medical system is only delegitimizing it, which hinders progress in better medical laws dealing with psychotropics as a whole, as well as producing more stringent laws to stop this abuse on the system (looks at news with CO and NJ). Legalizing allows the everyday person to become legitimate with smoking marijuana in the privacy of their own homes.

I much rather be allowed to grow my own stash and smoke away from civilization (or in my house), than constantly worry about getting busted just because someone has their panties in a twist because they can't sit out side of the elementary school smoking a jay.

Also think about the extent of enforcement for smoking weed outside. Do you really think people are going to have that much of an issue? I doubt it. Cops are already lax as shit out there as it is.

Not to mention the regulations involving with sale and purchase are also in place with alcohol and tobacco.

I think it is very naive to think we will get some sort of fairy tale legalization for weed. Its a big enough step imo to be able to smoke in my house.
 
I think a lot of people are confused at how mmj works in california... anyone can get a reccomendation and its isn't abusing the system. The law was written in a way that allows for people to deem marijuana an alternative medecine for any ailments. If you want to "smoke weed and grow a little bit in your home" talk to your doctor and DO it. Prop 19 is a trick with "legalization" as a means to restrict people more than they are now along with leaving an open door for the feds to axe any thoughts of a real and fair system. If you want to smoke weed legally, find a way to use it as the medecine that it is
 
How can you say it isn't abusing the medical system when you posting shit like this, 'If you want to "smoke weed and grow a little bit in your home" talk to your doctor and DO it. ' That is clear abuse of the medical marijuana system. The point of it becoming legal for medical use is for people with real medical conditions to be able to consume a medicine that can help their problem. Me wanting to smoke weed in my own home isn't a medical reason. Just because you try and portray your use of weed as "medical" doesn't mean it is.

When you start having every young adult who enjoys weed signing up to get a card you begin to start a cascade of effects. The public's eye as well as the medical communities eye will not shy away from the fact that people using the system to get high legally. Tighter laws across the country will be put in place slowing the growth of more medical laws dealing with psychotropic drugs across the board. NJ has already put down tighter laws on who can get a medical marijuana card. CO is starting to put up stricter regulations in response to abuse of the system in CA and CO. The public's perception could also possibly change.

By pretending that a medical card is a get out of jail free card will only hinder the process of the US as whole from getting a medical system as well as stopping legalization from happening.

Trying to stop legalization from happening is just selfish if you ask me. Think about all the lives we could save if we stopped the prosecution of non-violent possession and manufacturing crimes related to MJ. Medical marijuana doesn't protect everyone.
 
^ Actually now that you mention selfishness... I'd like this to pass, just so I can say "told ya' so!" from the comfort of decrim. Canada. ;)
 
Stoner: Somone who votes against laws meant to help them.

Usage: "I am a stoner because i voted No, along with the policemen who are going to put me in jail"
 
the whole point is that there will be no small companies producing. licencing will be difficult and costly to obtain, leaving joe schmoe to his 5x5 "parcel" to grow his one plant outdoors or run something in his closet
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where in the bill does it say this? Individual counties and cities will get to decide how permits are handed out, and what they will cost. Alcohol licenses for a bar can cost up to $100,000 or more.

the law makes it illegal to smoke in public (which is legal now under prop 215 and sb 420) the law also makes it illegal to sell or possess any amount for sale unless licensed (all you need now is your doctors recomendation... and lets say you do get a license. im guessing you will have to fork over $50/ ounce(more), or sell to your small client base and risk being caught and charged with tax fraud or some shit.
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I don't like the bit about not being able to smoke in public because chronically ill people seemingly need to blaze all day just to function. For the other 99.999% of the population, I don't see a huge deal here. Anyways, individual counties and cities would be able to make their own laws regarding this I think..or they could license venues and properties where smoking in public is ok.

the way the laws are now any californian can grow cannabis, smoke cannabis (anywhere and around anyone)... there is no tax, there is no 5x5 parcel bullshit, and there is no minimum wage being forced to people who currently make a living without the man stepping in, and stepping on fingers.
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I like the current laws very much, am even licensed myself. However, prop 215 started out with some restrictions and evolved. I think the same could be true for prop 19.

All of this stuff about "only corporations will be able to grow" seems unfounded based on the text of the bill.

read it yourself http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/initiative/
 
ok i know this comparison is a bit of a stretch but bare with me:

before the civil rights act of 1964 was passed, america had a "separate but equal" education system enacted by Brown v. Board of Education. While Brown v. Board was hardly the ideal civil rights leaders had in mind, they still saw it as a victory. It was a stepping stone. If this initiative passes, Californians should still continue to fight the good fight ie: full on legalization.

Even after the civil rights act a stigma/prejudice still remained against blacks. This stigma is diminishing day by day, however, in accordance with human nature, it will never totally disappear. today, blacks have it better off than ever before. while you can give me the statistics regarding the percentage of black men in jail (largely due to the War on Drugs), i can just as readily show you the growing percentage of black middle class.

From this example i fee that, ultimately, the stigma associated with marijuana is the strongest factor inhibiting it's legitimate institutionalization/legalization into American society. Until we as a nation can look at each other and say "it's not that big of a deal," we'll have to deal with this issue.
This too shall pass.

i'll settle for a compromise in limiting the purchase of cannabis to those 21 and up (to appeal to the holier-than-thou moralists) even though it and alcohol, should adopt the 18 or younger/don't care law seen throughout much of the world. this would definitely limit my ability to purchase marijuana. as a university student, as i can safely say cannabis is easier to acquire than alcohol for me.

Regarding the corporatization of pot, i feel that businesses have every right to research and invest in the plant. think of all the great products they could come up with! business doesn't necessarily mean evil Mr. Burns type business. there are several ethical businesses out there. imagine ben & jerry (although they are owned by unilever) or sweet leaf tea company selling items at your grocery store. additionally, with an even larger budget, they could breed strains with even more precision than is currently available.

despite my support for wall street weed, anybody should have the right to grow marijuana. it should just like tomatoes i can grow, eat, give away, and sell as many as i want. wouldn't road-side pot stands be nice?
 
There's one thing I've been wondering about since I first heard of this:
If you're only allowed to possess 1 ounce, how are you supposed to grow?
A little bit of reading tells me growing indoors on just 1m² typically yields about 5-10x that amount. And outdoors, a single plant can produce even more than that.
Now, one indoor grow seems to take somewhere between 2 and 4 months. That means if you don't go for multiple parallel grows, you'd have to spread that 1 ounce over multiple months.

That only matters if you do get inspected, and that's where this proposition would come in handy: If you grow indoors, you'll be able to buy the equipment openly and not have to worry all that much about things like smell and disposing of waste material. Though there are ways that could be circumvented to still fuck you.

Also: Does anyone know how this is going to affect other forms of cannabis like hash or oil?
 
The law allows for everything you grow to be fine, even if it is over the ounce law. You just can't have it leave your place of residence or you could get fucked.
 
Cloudy said:
The law allows for everything you grow to be fine, even if it is over the ounce law. You just can't have it leave your place of residence or you could get fucked.
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Then this really sounds great. Much better than what they have in the Netherlands, actually. Not only can you possess nearly 6 times the amount of bought stuff, you can even legally grow it yourself.
 
Also if you are worried about taxation, either grow for yourself (weed is one of the easiest) or buy from a friend that grows. If you get supplied outside of a legitamate market how do you expect for them to tax you. Its not that hard to show up to a growers house and pick up an oz with out any sort of worry. They can keep all that they grow in their house with out legal troubles and you can carry up to an oz on your person. You can buy an oz tax free easy.
 
well there seems to be a very dark shadow. As the last part of the article says the initiative can be amended without further approval from voters. Meaning things like the one ounce component can be altered.

I think the problem for most citzens is if your in trouble re something else, and your house, business, life is opened up to closer inspection will mean big trouble.

It basically means if you want to grow pot you can't have kids.
 
Anyone who thinks pot ever is gonna just be legal with no restrictions at all is deluding themselves. Passing this law would send a clear message that the voters want pot legal. That is far more important than the details.
 
Cloudy said:
Also if you are worried about taxation, either grow for yourself (weed is one of the easiest) or buy from a friend that grows. If you get supplied outside of a legitamate market how do you expect for them to tax you. Its not that hard to show up to a growers house and pick up an oz with out any sort of worry. They can keep all that they grow in their house with out legal troubles and you can carry up to an oz on your person. You can buy an oz tax free easy.
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did you not read the article? states that proof of purchase through receipts is on you, meaning you cant just tell an officer you bought it from the store... ofc this depends on the cop and how strictly they'll enforce it
 
!_MDMA_! said:
did you not read the article? states that proof of purchase through receipts is on you, meaning you cant just tell an officer you bought it from the store... ofc this depends on the cop and how strictly they'll enforce it
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Then you just need to buy from a licensed store once to have a proof of purchase. I doubt they're going to put the strains on the receipt and train cops to discern those strains. (Meaning you can put any weed in any amount below that on the receipt in the bag or whatever packaging is going to be used).
There are ways to make that harder, though.
 
Corporations will probably grow commercial grade weed,or whatever is cheapest and easiest and makes them the highest profit margain.Hopefully the corporate greed will make them grow higher quality weed like is grown in California now.There will still be a black market of growers ,sellers,and users.Just like with alcohol, minors obtain booze from older people who buy for a fee or free booze,or "bootleggers" who sell to people under 21 that drink beer,or booze and moonshiners who still exist in the Southern states and Appalacian Mtn.s .The alcohol they make is illegal because they do not pay a tax on it . Otherwise it would be legal if taxes were paid and the government was allowed to do frequent spying on their operation ..lol..
 
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