why men make music?

[marsmellow]

1 editing slightly breaks is zilion times harder and more complex than slightly editing anything else

Complexity doesn't automatically mean better music. Techno is really simple musically, but I like it a lot more than most dnb, because from what I've heard, a whole lot of dnb sounds the same.

Good music is a balanced mix of simplicity and complexity. You need both. If it's too complex, it just sounds like a disorganized, un-musical clusterfuck of noise. (see for examples: most breakcore)

I like this track a lot better than both your examples, but this one was made by a woman.

Women CAN make electronic music. They just don't usually.

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

dont hate me but you obviously know nothing about dnb



thats like saying "The thing with cars,as cool as that engines are,its just basicly wheel from that man that invented wheel just sped up"


for someone who saw car once on picture,it may seem like truth but if the person got anywhere near 20 meters close to real car or driver in one before he will.. how would I say it nicely... not agree

I figured I was going out on a limb there, but it's generally true.
And we're speaking in generalities here because obviously there are girls who like it, and I'm no expert on the subject, but they produce it as well according to other posters. And the track marshmellow just posted proves that there are some out there who KICK ASS.
I'm biased in favor of musicians though, which is why I brought up Jojo. In my town of Rochester we have a big instrumental based DnB scene, lots of hot girls attend those shows. In addition to some kick-ass DJs. It's a good time in local music for me

 

[AndroidsDreamofBTC]

Let's not start any name calling here! Please keep things civil!

 

[DOB]

How do you know this? Have you ever tried producing dark psy, minimal, electro, tech house, dubstep or any of the other genres? I think you're just biased cause it's your favorite. Only someone who has tried producing all the other genres would know this.

how do I know that? everybody knows that ask any producent,its widely accepted fact that dnb is the one of hardest to make EDM genres ( jungle,breakcore,darkstep,dubstep,breakbeats... )



If I tried that? I make it for three years,I make dubstep too but dubstep beat is so much easier to make and anything 4/4 is baby playground compared to broken music...

I love psytrance,techno,house you name it,I even listened it years before dnb

 

[DOB]

Complexity doesn't automatically mean better music. Techno is really simple musically, but I like it a lot more than most dnb, because from what I've heard, a whole lot of dnb sounds the same.

Good music is a balanced mix of simplicity and complexity. You need both. If it's too complex, it just sounds like a disorganized, un-musical clusterfuck of noise. (see for examples: most breakcore)

I like this track a lot better than both your examples, but this one was made by a woman.

Women CAN make electronic music. They just don't usually.

let me say that its great tune but it comes nowhere near complexity to todays dnb


GOD and one of original pioneers of this genre,the genius Simon "Bassline" Smith said that the production in 2000 taken alot less time,becose it was alot less complex,in those times he spend around day on tune,today dnb is made in course of months.

that was in,2000


the tune you posted is from 1994 is to 2000 dnb like 2000 dnb to dnb of today.



plus its just single women vs thousands men



I know more people that have 6 fingers that women that made quality dnb in past 6 years

 

[DOB]

we get it, dob, your preferred genre is the git-hardest to make which makes you awesome and anybody who disagrees knows nothing about dnb and any examples people provide to demonstrate otherwise are not complex enough. that about sum it up?

how one even begins to measure some of the claims you make is beyond me. can you back up your 99.99% figure with any substantiation or is my assumption that you pulled it out of thin air correct?

dropsonde is correct - this electronic dick-sizing is retarded.

alasdair

"we get it, dob, your preferred genre is the git-hardest to make which makes you awesome and anybody who disagrees knows nothing about dnb and any examples people provide to demonstrate otherwise are not complex enough. that about sum it up"

no,you dont get it,this is totaly not true what you said.DNB is very complex music,like sky is blue at nice summer day or like F1 are fastest race cars

"how one even begins to measure some of the claims you make is beyond me. can you back up your 99.99% figure with any substantiation or is my assumption that you pulled it out of thin air correct?"

what exactly you want me to do? I dont understand



"dropsonde is correct - this electronic dick-sizing is retarded"

again you failed to "get it",I feel from your post that emotions blinds your intelect.

 

[DOB]

I have feeling that some of you think that I say dnb is uber to all other music forms

I dont say,that,nor do I think that,I say dnb is one of hardest,if not hardest EDM to make,thats big difference



if music is good or not is matter of taste,becose of that theres no universal truth

complexity is technical just as horsepower of engine or mathematics,becose of that if two people think something else on of them isnt right



I love 4/4 music but its nowhere near as complex as dnb,not even psytrance/tech producents would say that their music is complex as dnb,but they can say,and say it alot,that their music its alot better that some stupid dnb and its truth,becose better or worse in world of music depends only on individual music taste

 

[dropsonde]

lay off the meth

 

[Black]

if music is good or not is matter of taste,becose of that theres no universal truth

complexity is technical just as horsepower of engine or mathematics,becose of that if two people think something else on of them isnt right

I love 4/4 music but its nowhere near as complex as dnb,not even psytrance/tech producents would say that their music is complex as dnb,but they can say,and say it alot,that their music its alot better that some stupid dnb and its truth,becose better or worse in world of music depends only on individual music taste

if you just said rhytmical complexity i'd agree with you (with the exception of some chillout), but if you factor in synthesis/autmation/effects/melody/harmony/progressions dnb is rather simple (not that it isn't good, i like dnb very much and you have posted excellent examples).

take for example this track. do you have any dnb that's more complex in one of the areas i mentioned above?

 

[DOB]

if you just said rhytmical complexity i'd agree with you (with the exception of some chillout), but if you factor in synthesis/autmation/effects/melody/harmony/progressions dnb is rather simple (not that it isn't good, i like dnb very much and you have posted excellent examples).

take for example this track. do you have any dnb that's more complex in one of the areas i mentioned above?

it isnt just rhytmical complexity,

dnb have most complex basslines,layering,and dynamix ever.


like I said,I was into psytrance ( mainly older goa stuff,but new school too ) years before I even know what dnb is,I still love it today but its nowhere as complex as your average dnb tune


why? lets take it step by step

Hi hats... psytrance have very simple hi hats just like most 4/4 music,one or two hats,simple patern


you average dnb tune will contain around seven breaks layered together with main hi hats,just the main hi hats have alot more complex patern,put all the hats from brakes into it and you have ocean of hi hats and extreme level of overall movement coplexity,the proccesing of those hi hats is alot more complex too since there so little room to fit all those hi hats,some very complex techniques must be used,also each of those ten hi hats must perfectly fit other hi hats + all layers of bassline while it must sound good.

for example I would post tutorial from very good producent called Danny Bird,he will in tutorial show you how he layer seven breaks to make tune thats just average in drum complexity in dnb world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wX0LUMHzL90



so the dnb is lighyears ahead of psy in beat complexity,both rhythm and layering... same for bassline and synths.The progressive synths of psy dont stand chance about progressive everything of dnb in terms of complexity


Kick and Snare.... psy dont even have snare,thats not necesary bad thing but it means half the complexity even if the kick was same complexity as dnb kick witch it isnt.


dnb kick and snare are alot layered from up to 4 other kicks and snares,it takes years to master this technique,to make then play together as one no to fight over while in psytrance is usualy one synthetized kick but I heard even layered one in psy but its far less used becose with synthesis you can make one kick so solid that you dont need layering at all,see I dont say dnb kicks are better than psy I am just saying that on average their more complex.The snare drums are even more layered in dnb,its whole world of compressors,limiters,distortions

these beats switch alot,you can have four beats in one tune,each beat have as much elements and complexity as about eight 1994 era jungle beat,and 1994 era jungle is already far more complex that new school psy,I could write all day why dnb beats are so complex.Also the edits in drums happens alot,where in psy becose of its hypno vibe its nearly not happening at all.

spl - initiation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ucqeIcVMlA



Bassline... the psy bassline is extremly simple,thats aggain not bad thing since psy is hypnotic music.The dnb basslines are made from up to 5 layers,this is place where dnb shines,in the complexity o those basslines,the dynamix and movement is far beyond anything.Plus the melody line is many time long up to 16 bars and then it will switch into entirely different melody after those 16 bars and back aggain.Some bassline production techniques,mainly from Noisia camp are made using techniques so complex that you or me dont even dreamt in wildest dreams how they process them.In Psy the bassline and synth have alot progresion but layering is very simple
the number of synths and bassline layers is far far far bigger than psy,but I know some extra quality very progressive psy comes close with its number of sound but the dnb is still ahead.Dnb have biggest number of rhythms from all music,it isnt just amen,its about god knows how much type of breaks + fat dose of unbroken nu school beats.

example of very complex melody bassline
Pendulum - Terminal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bujYpRkZJ4Y

example of 4 layer thick bassline
Sub Focus - Triple X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XT4BzJ3_vh0

example of high dynamix bassline
Noisia - Stigma
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onLIQrJ7gMQ




last thing is sub bass... dnb & dubstep have most dynamic sub basslines this planet has to offer,psy with its constant kick sub isnt even competition in terms of complexity of sub freqencies

 

[DOB]

lay off the meth

I dont live long but I know from personal experience that when someone talk shit about other person,it many times describe the talking person more than target person,becose of that let my tell you that you should lay of meth,I dont mean this offensive,meth is bad thing

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

What are a list of you fav DnB producers? I've been listening to Logistics and stuff in that vein. Which is why I said it didn't seem all that complex to me.
Could you give me stuff that's more complex than that?
Do any DnB producers you know of use jazz elements in there work? I'm talking mainly about the chords and basslines and melodies, rather than the drumming, but if they threw in some jazz drumming stuff that would be even cooler IMO. and I'm not talking bout simply someone sampling a horn section or something like that. I mean actually composing a song using ii-V-I's and harmonization techniques and chromatics and all the rest of what stylistically has been considered jazz.

I'm still having trouble really being able to tell the difference in complexity between this and dubstep. I listen to a lot of music, so while I'm not an expert with EDM genres, I can count all the rhythms played in those tracks you posted. But this emphasis on complexity seems pointless since you yourself said that it doesn't make one song or style better than another.

That Noisia track you posted IS in 4/4 dude except for the intro which is just a time signature-less section. Most DnB is in 4/4 from what I've heard, unless you can post something else

 

[DOB]

What are a list of you fav DnB producers? I've been listening to Logistics and stuff in that vein. Which is why I said it didn't seem all that complex to me.
Could you give me stuff that's more complex than that?
Do any DnB producers you know of use jazz elements in there work? I'm talking mainly about the chords and basslines and melodies, rather than the drumming, but if they threw in some jazz drumming stuff that would be even cooler IMO. and I'm not talking bout simply someone sampling a horn section or something like that. I mean actually composing a song using ii-V-I's and harmonization techniques and chromatics and all the rest of what stylistically has been considered jazz.

I'm still having trouble really being able to tell the difference in complexity between this and dubstep. I listen to a lot of music, so while I'm not an expert with EDM genres, I can count all the rhythms played in those tracks you posted. But this emphasis on complexity seems pointless since you yourself said that it doesn't make one song or style better than another.

That Noisia track you posted IS in 4/4 dude except for the intro which is just a time signature-less section. Most DnB is in 4/4 from what I've heard, unless you can post something else

first I want to thank you for making racional post without angry vibe,thats what I wanted


my favorite producents?


Noisia

Sub Focus

Technical Itch

old Pendulum

Dj Zen

Heist

Sensai

Tantrum desire

Future Prohecies

Modified Motion

Original Sin

Taxman

Evol Intent

High Roller

Chase Status

Cabbie

Nero

Camo & Krooked

Delta Heavy

Xample

Lomax

Black Sun Empire

Phetsta

DJ Fresh

Callide

Drumsound & Bassline Smith

Calyx

Dom & Roland

SPL

Spor

Upbeats

Limewax

Tony Anthem

Erb N Dub

P.A.

Terravita

Teebee


and so much more

 

[DOB]

What are a list of you fav DnB producers? I've been listening to Logistics and stuff in that vein. Which is why I said it didn't seem all that complex to me.
Could you give me stuff that's more complex than that?
Do any DnB producers you know of use jazz elements in there work? I'm talking mainly about the chords and basslines and melodies, rather than the drumming, but if they threw in some jazz drumming stuff that would be even cooler IMO. and I'm not talking bout simply someone sampling a horn section or something like that. I mean actually composing a song using ii-V-I's and harmonization techniques and chromatics and all the rest of what stylistically has been considered jazz.

I'm still having trouble really being able to tell the difference in complexity between this and dubstep. I listen to a lot of music, so while I'm not an expert with EDM genres, I can count all the rhythms played in those tracks you posted. But this emphasis on complexity seems pointless since you yourself said that it doesn't make one song or style better than another.

That Noisia track you posted IS in 4/4 dude except for the intro which is just a time signature-less section. Most DnB is in 4/4 from what I've heard, unless you can post something else

more complex stuff? I posted more than enough in this thread

I know there this so called jazzstep but I dont listen to so I dont want to name any producent like that


yes,the dnb dont seem much complex at first,4 years back when I didnt know anything about production it didnt seemed to be too but the more you make it,the more you will understand how complex it is.DNB is so complex that very few people can percieve it fully,its like mirror,its as simple or as complex as the person listening to it


the logistics dont make very complex dnb at first look until you watch this tutorial from him... its like waking up from matrix if you take time and watch this,those techniqes are nowhere to be found in other EDM genres

its been put down from youtube.... basicly he takes a sample from futuristic movie and then layer it with other three synths witch shitload of autonomation then compress it together to make one layer witch he will layer with many other sounds to achieve incredibely fat,dynamic and harmonic rich sound with big time movement



the dubstep have alot less complex beats,becose it dont use break layering.its just kick snare hi hats rides cimbals and thats it,dnb have all those things plus congas,cowbells,shuffles,rimshots with many other breaks layered together.Layering breaks is very hard,try it some day,it isnt just about taking bunch of beats and letting them play at once


and last thing,that Noisia tune wasnt 4/4 ( Sigma ) but it isnt amen too,its unique break.Also theres very few ( handfull ) of 4/4 dnb tunes

 

[dropsonde]

if you post something other than dnb, i might take you seriously.

i dont believe you actually like music, you just listen to it and pick fights about it.

let music be music.

 

[DOB]

if you post something other than dnb, i might take you seriously.

i dont believe you actually like music, you just listen to it and pick fights about it.

let music be music.

why should I post anything other than dnb? what would I accomplish with that?


believe what ever you want my friend,I dont care


so I just liten dnb to pick fights... look at your first post in this thread,the psychological mirror in full force

 

[dropsonde]

to show us that you are capable of listening to music other than dnb?

i have been a musician all my life, and people like you, piss me off.

 

[DOB]

to show us that you are capable of listening to music other than dnb?

i have been a musician all my life, and people like you, piss me off.

I dont need show obvious things,I am not THAT retarded

I have been musician all my life,and people like you cant piss me off


maybe its teh meth causing all this pissing on your side



since I am pissing you off so much,please consider using these next time you visit my thread

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

and last thing,that Noisia tune wasnt 4/4 ( Sigma ) but it isnt amen too,its unique break.Also theres very few ( handfull ) of 4/4 dnb tunes

I'll look into jazzstep thanks!
And yeah I love all music, which makes it hard for me to pick a favorite, but it also means I can argue about it without getting upset or anything because it's all up to the listener.
I was talking about the first Noisia track you posted "The Tide." Where it has a 2 minute-ish long intro section, and then goes into a 4/4 groove, then goes back to the free time. True it's not entirely 4/4, but the main groove is certainly 4/4.

All of the Logistics stuff that I've heard was basically one chord the whole time, and it was all 4/4 w/ the sped up funky drummer break. I like to jam along with DnB tracks or other EDM with my guitar, so I know for a fact that the harmony stays the same and the time sig is 4/4 in most of that stuff. The only time the time sig changes from 4/4 to anything else is when it's doing one of those drone sections where it's time-signature-less.
I don't think I've ever heard any EDM song that was in like 7/8 or 9/8, for instance, or 25/32, or 15/16, etc. If I can tap my foot 1+2+3+4, repeated, then it's 4/4. Just because it doesn't have the consistent kick drum on every down beat doesn't mean it's not 4/4
I have a Logistics Pandora Radio station and I just made a Noisia Pandora station, everything I've heard was 4/4 so far! I love it. 4/4 is the most common feel for a reason, it feels good to us as humans who grew up in the Western European Music tradition. There are people for whom 15/16 is THE common time. In africa or India they have CRAZY rhythms. There's some of the most complex music ever played just using Djembes and Doumbeks or Timbales!
You're right about the hi-hats though. DnB is so cool because of the particularly interesting rhythms used on the hi-hats, as opposed to simply playing every 8th or 16th note.

What's so hard about layering breaks? Keep in mind I'm very very new to EDM genres, but not to music in general.
I have tried messing around with Ableton live 8, and I currently mess around with FL studios 9. I wish I had some good sounding synths. I'd love to be able to make my own EDM! I also need more samples to draw from.

DnB has lots of chicks following it, try going to a creative center near you. Like a city near a college that specializes in music or art, and you're BOUND to find loads of em. If it's that important to you you could always move. I'd recommend it if you're trying to find your soulmate
Here's a cool track I found, not exactly what I'm talking about, but it's kinda close:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XysiF3gA-VM&NR=1

 

[alasdairm]

DNB is very complex music,like sky is blue at nice summer day or like F1 are fastest race cars

your opinion that dnb is complex is not a fact. it's your opinion. when you state your opinion as a fact, you sound arrogant and sound like an idiot. i'd suggest this is the reason your responses are creating a little friction in the thread.

what exactly you want me to do? I dont understand

i want you to back up your 99.99% figure with some facts or else withdraw the claim and admit you have no idea of the actual numbers and you're just making stuff up.

I feel from your post that emotions blinds your intelect.

lolirony

alasdair