Heroin Why is heroin a bad painkiller?

[pseudoshaman]

It’s not an anti inflammatory; when i was addicted to dope I still had to take ibuprofen for my back pain

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Where can I live in one of these places because it sounds really great from what you just informed us on? We should all relocate. Totally agree but it doesn't apply only to opiates--even though you definitely probably know that. Any substance that's illicit has that psychological end result where the user is "getting high" from literally doing something forbidden/frowned upon in society (on top of actually getting high). Substance use for illegal narcotics is like rebellious in nature. I think Oregon has the right idea by just skipping to treatments/having nurses test your heroin without any legal issues. That's what the USA really needs. if you look at California, the people there smoke marijuana probably less on average. Marijuana has been legal there for an eternity so the situation is intriguing for even a soft narcotic like bud.

South American and southeast Asian countries .India. Without being to specific.

turns out ppl that wanna use just use average pills rather than super powerful fent and they don’t get out of control and the country is better off

 

[burn out]

It's a bad painkiller because it builds tolerance very quickly and produces a lot of sedation and respiratory depression. When I was addicted to heroin, I still had a lot of pain issues because my tolerance got so high that I needed a ridiculous amount of heroin to actually get rid of my pain. It's much better to use milder painkillers that can help with pain but don't get you so ridiculously strung out.

 

[hwbush336]

Lets disregard the topic of heroin being laced with fent and how variable it makes the chances of overdosing occur--on top of horrible life-ruining misery from the addiction lol. Its fast-acting morphine, and morphine is said to be an incredibly effective painkiller if not one of the best. At one point in America it truly was a prescribed substance for painful injuries or chronic pain. It was too enticing for patients to control their use whatsoever in most cases, thus they moved on to oxycodone in which killed more people than wars combined smh. Does it have to do with heroin just being too fast acting? Thought any type of morphine would be a great pain relief tool. I do get why someone in constant pain would see heroin as their only answer if no doctor is willing to prescribe a less destructive painkiller like percocet.

I'm confused with the new CDC guidelines, so does it mean I can leave the methodone clinic and go back to pain treatment?? I don't see why some that was forced to go to the methodone clinic when doctors cut everyone off can't go back ?

 

[hwbush336]

Heroin is an excellent pain killer. When I had a hip injury a couple years ago I came home, smoked some heroin and the pain was gone in like 15 seconds. The reason it isn't used clinically is because of the stigma.

I did the exact same thing haha in 2017 I was in a crash destroyed my hip dislocated blew out the back of my pelvis , fyntinol/heroin china was the only that killed the pain, I had a script of oxy 10s pinks and opana g74s the gells ones snorted those was great at first then they ran out

 

[Dextro .45]

Ummmm…..pharmaceutical Diacetylmorphine (Diamorphine) aka Heroin is an Amazing Potent opioid narcotic painkiller. In a way, a pro-drug which metabolizes into Morphine, but it’s the metabolite 6-MAM which gives the potent Rush & Euphoric Bliss. Significantly more water soluble than Morphine, Diamorphine rapidly penetrated the BBB reaching high concentrations in mere seconds

Oxycodone was the most pleasurable opioid I’ve ever experienced….FAR surpassing injecting Dilaudid (Hydromorphone) amazing btw, and illicit Heroin (which was very euphoric & potent)

Street junk is one thing, but having Swiss manufactured Diaphin 10gram glass jars of pure pharmaceutical diacetylmorphine hcl for injection a WHOLE Different Beast

pharmaceutical Diamorphine & Cocaine in same rig for i.v. injection would be the Pinnacle of dopaminergic Pleasure

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

My former GP who was British was going to prescribe me diamorphine aka Heroin for pain once. I damn near shit myself when she mentioned that. Unfortunatly it had been taken off the market so i got dilaudid instead

Was this in the early 2000’s? Cause there was a diamorphine shortage in the UK back then and doc’s were told to switch to other opioids of similar strength.

Its addiction potential is through the roof/painkiller potential is only there if one is willing to get addited to the stuff properly.

This is simply not drug and is just anti-Heroin propaganda, it’s addiction potential is similar to other similar strength opioids.
It’s 1.8x - 3x as potent as morphine

To my knowledge it is a good painkiller, used in the UK and others. I heard something about it not creating as much histamine activity as other opioids, I think it was. There was some reason that makes it preferable in certain cases. But not in US.

It’s true that pharmaceutical diamorphine/Heroin (Street Heroin often contains quite a bit of morphine and also codeine and acetylcodeine.) causes less of a histamine release than morphine, this not only reduces itching but also causes it to not lower blood pressure or risk anaphylactic shock as much as morphine.

The World Health Organisation (Cause of US influence.) and the US National Institute of Health when talking about Heroin always use evidence from rats and in rats Heroin is more toxic than morphine where as in humans it’s vice versa for the reasons I’d just mentioned.

One thing that makes it a really good painkiller is it’s solubility in water for injection compared to morphine.
Only 65mg of morphine sulphate is soluble in one millimetre of water where as 500mg of diamorphine hydrochloride is soluble in one millimetre of water.
That much diamorphine hydrochloride is equivalent to 900mg - 1500mg of morphine sulphate, which would take up 13.8ml - 23ml of water compared to the 1ml for the diamorphine.
As you can see diamorphine is far better for IV use and syringe pump drivers use (They use the subcutaneous route of administration.) as it’s far, far less water to inject and if you have an emaciated cancer patient you’ll probably not be able to inject them much and also trying to IV 1500mg of morphine in 23ml in one go may cause fluid problems if you’re not using saline water.

 

[Gaz_hmmmm]

South American and southeast Asian countries .India. Without being to specific.

turns out ppl that wanna use just use average pills rather than super powerful fent and they don’t get out of control and the country is better off

That’s simply not true, they may like in the UK* and Europe sell small amounts of codeine, usually mixed with aspirin, ibuprofen or acetaminophen/paracetamol over the counter but everything else requires a prescription.
I know in India tramadol though easy to get (Especially online.) does require a prescription, it’s just the corruption/ignoring of the law that makes it so people can buy a few over the counter.
The idea you can go to India and expect to buy some strong opioids in instant release form without any aspirin, ibuprofen or acetaminophen/paracetamol is laughable, even with them you won’t get them.
Online you’ll probably easily find tramadol and tapentadol but that’s cause the law’s not court up to them yet but it’s coming cause the Middle East and parts of Africa have a huge ‘problem’ with tramadol.

The problem being their health care systems don’t generally prescribe opioids for pain, even cancer pain and if you are lucky enough it’s a few days, not weeks at the end of life or for broken bones and then at best it’s morphine in a hospital and tramadol out of it.

With over a billion people in Africa and obviously a lot who have chronic pain (Physical and psychological.) the demand for opioids is huge but cause of US/Western pressure they sadly don’t get allocated much of the legit medical supply of opioids and this has lead to a huge supply and demand for tramadol.

I know Zimbabwe has a big codeine (Alcohol also being a big ingredient in it too!) cough syrup problem and I think in parts of Western Africa too.

I’m surprised illegal opium growing hasn’t taken off in Sub-Saharan Africa, guess there’s obviously a need for painkillers.
I know Egypt used to grow a little opium and manufacture Heroin even for export but not much, I think they still do but don’t export.

Maybe the Mexican cartels who are making in roads in Nigeria along with climate change may lead to new areas being farmed for opium.

That’s going off topic though.

Opioids generally globally a prescription is required thanks to US pushed international UN treaty laws.


*In the UK you can even get codeine by itself over the counter, 600mg/200ml as codeine linctus, a long with Gee’s Linctus (Piss weak laudanum) whic contains opium, the equivalent of 20mg of morphine.
J. Collis Browne’s Mixture also contains 20mg of morphine but I can’t remember if it’s straight morphine or opium and then there’s Koalin & Morphine which too contains 20mg of morphine in a 200ml bottle.
Paramol contains about 10mg of dihydrocodeine and 500mg acetaminophen/paracetamol per pill and is also over the counter.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

That’s simply not true, they may like in the UK* and Europe sell small amounts of codeine, usually mixed with aspirin, ibuprofen or acetaminophen/paracetamol over the counter but everything else requires a prescription.
I know in India tramadol though easy to get (Especially online.) does require a prescription, it’s just the corruption/ignoring of the law that makes it so people can buy a few over the counter.
The idea you can go to India and expect to buy some strong opioids in instant release form without any aspirin, ibuprofen or acetaminophen/paracetamol is laughable, even with them you won’t get them.
Online you’ll probably easily find tramadol and tapentadol but that’s cause the law’s not court up to them yet but it’s coming cause the Middle East and parts of Africa have a huge ‘problem’ with tramadol.

The problem being their health care systems don’t generally prescribe opioids for pain, even cancer pain and if you are lucky enough it’s a few days, not weeks at the end of life or for broken bones and then at best it’s morphine in a hospital and tramadol out of it.

With over a billion people in Africa and obviously a lot who have chronic pain (Physical and psychological.) the demand for opioids is huge but cause of US/Western pressure they sadly don’t get allocated much of the legit medical supply of opioids and this has lead to a huge supply and demand for tramadol.

I know Zimbabwe has a big codeine (Alcohol also being a big ingredient in it too!) cough syrup problem and I think in parts of Western Africa too.

I’m surprised illegal opium growing hasn’t taken off in Sub-Saharan Africa, guess there’s obviously a need for painkillers.
I know Egypt used to grow a little opium and manufacture Heroin even for export but not much, I think they still do but don’t export.

Maybe the Mexican cartels who are making in roads in Nigeria along with climate change may lead to new areas being farmed for opium.

That’s going off topic though.

Opioids generally globally a prescription is required thanks to US pushed international UN treaty laws.


*In the UK you can even get codeine by itself over the counter, 600mg/200ml as codeine linctus, a long with Gee’s Linctus (Piss weak laudanum) whic contains opium, the equivalent of 20mg of morphine.
J. Collis Browne’s Mixture also contains 20mg of morphine but I can’t remember if it’s straight morphine or opium and then there’s Koalin & Morphine which too contains 20mg of morphine in a 200ml bottle.
Paramol contains about 10mg of dihydrocodeine and 500mg acetaminophen/paracetamol per pill and is also over the counter.

Thanks for just agreeing with me and proving my point.

Plenty of south American countries drugs are fully decriminalized and hydrocodone is sold otc. Hydro is a powerful opioid. You also mention tapentadol availability in India…I rank that somewhere between hydro and oxy codone. It is a very powerful opioid. And yet opioid addiction is not mainstream in India

Besides what’s legal via a pharmacy…everything is decriminalized and ppl can buy what ever they want on the black market with out legal consequence. No massive fent epidemics

We age getting into legal semantics here but the main point is:

Opioids are extremely available in many countries around the world with little to zero legal consequence. They don’t have fentanyl as the main drug and they don’t have the massive levels of addiction we have.

Why are things so different there? It comes down to a culture of misery and a fentanyl flood in America caused by crackdowns on safer pharma alternatives; where other countries have very strong community and family roots…this is my explanation for it.

But it is an outright lie to say that there are NOT countries with way easier opioid access that somehow don’t have manssive fent epidemics like America… and I think this is the claim you’re trying to make.

The reasons for why it’s fucked in America and not these opioid pharma free for all countries is what is debatable and an interesting question. The above paragraph is an absolute fact

 

[Dextro .45]

Hydrocodone (Vicodin) is weak and suitable for opioid naive children, dental work, wisdom teeth removal, opioid naive adults for minor to moderate pain

Tramadol is also a weak atypical synthetic opioid analgesic possessing NET/SERT reuptake inhibitor properties

Morphine is standard but not oral, administered in a hospital setting via injection

Oxycodone is HANDS DOWN the most euphoric pleasurable opioid I’ve ever had, an atomic bomb of pleasure, a warm blanket of comfort, stimulating not sedating, dopaminergic opioid cluster fuck of god caressing your soul

Dilaudid (Hydromorphone) is an amazingly potent opioid and pharmaceutical vials for injection are like gold, but Oxycodone is FAR more pleasurable

Diacetylmorphine (Heroin) pharmaceutical Swiss Diaphin 10 gram glass jars would be like Oxycodone on steroids. 100% pure pharmaceutical Diamorphine & Cocaine injected intravenously is the pinnacle of dopaminergic euphoric ecstasy and an Amazing analgesic painkiller, even adding a little Ketamine into to mix

Diacetyldihydromorphine (also known as Paralaudin, dihydroheroin, acetylmorphinol) is a potent opiate derivative developed in Germany in 1928 which is rarely used in some countries for the treatment of severe pain such as that caused by terminal cancer, as another form of diacetylmorphine (also commonly known as Heroin). Diacetyldihydromorphine is fast-acting and longer-lasting than diamorphine, with a duration of action of around 4-7 hours.[1]

…..WOW, I’d kill to have a German pharmaceutical firm manufacture for me 500kg of 100% pure API hydrochloride raw powder for injection…it’s basically Heroin but is faster acting, longer acting, little more potent and last 4-7 hours compared to 4 hours for Heroin

Oxymorphone (Opana) Potent as a MOFO and highly desirable

Methadone (Dolophin) Amazingly potent and long acting synthetic full opioid mu-agonist which I’ve been on for 10+years and a Great analgesic painkiller and pleasurable in an oral Brompton Cocktail

Methadone 80mg
Methylphenidate 50mg
Diazepam 20mg
Lorazepam 2mg
Pregabalin 300-450mg
Indica Cannabis 10mg

All pulverized in glass of orange juice ……30-40min onset …..make an Ethanol / Jin 2-3oz cocktail, blast a like of Cocaine & Ketamine 50/50 before having a cigarette on the balcony with my Jin cocktail

And I’m f@ckn LIT lol……an an extremely tolerant long term user this oral Brompton Cocktail is safe for me as I’ve consumed one daily for the past 4-6 years after a long day of work. My treat / reward to relax and unwind

Be safe. Cheers

 

[Bodidly]

If heroin was rebranded big pharm would once again sell it. It turns quickly to morphine in your system and is an extremely good pain killer.

 

[BadBoy377]

It's been a fair while but I recall it being pretty effective.

 

[thebreadsticks]

If heroin was rebranded big pharm would once again sell it. It turns quickly to morphine in your system and is an extremely good pain killer.

Correct, it does metabolize to morphine! Just like every single other opiate… lol
Ever checked oral bioavailability for diacetylmorphine? They’d need to make some sort of prodrug to increase it, if they didn’t even the lowest dose could be shot and floor ya. That’s true for a lot of drugs, but that coupled with the word “heroin” scares the fuck out of people.

(If you’ve never heard of a prodrug, it’s a way of changing a drug to overcome a problem. Example - by attatching L-lysine to dextroamphetamine, they make lisdexamfetamine aka vyvanse. Lisdexamfetamine is inactive until metabolized, so it leads to reduced abuse potential. Very interesting.)




To the topic!
I smoked black tar for 8 years after my doc cut my oxy cold turkey. I did it 100% for pain. My pain would come back before I was even close to running on E so it was never to mitigate WD symptoms. If i wanted to get high, i would have been an IV user.

I got my arm ripped off by a washing machine at work. I was on 120mg methadone and about 3/4g of tar per day. When they released me two weeks later, they had to replace the IV hydromorphone with an oral med. So then I was on 120mg methadone, 3/4-1g of tar, and 340mg oxycodone.

I honestly think the tar was the best pain relief, but there’s actually very little heroin in tar. It’s monoacetylmorphine instead of diacetylmorphine. I’m sure they have different pain killing qualities.


After an amputation by washing machine, there were 2 miracle drugs.

When I first arrived, they k-holed me. Big ol shot of ketamine, and thank god! I was a hurtin bitch.

That was the most pain relief I’ve ever felt. 2nd best and the other miracle- toradol. If inflammation is the problem, HOLY SHIT THAT STUFF WORKS.

What really sucks is the only thing that touches phantom pain is pregabalin. I only took em randomly when it got bad. After a few bad days in a row, it let up. I was sick as FUCK for a week not realizing it was lyrica WD. Very odd symptoms- diarrhea that exponentially exceeds (by volume) the amount of food you’ve eaten in the last month.

 

[Bodidly]

Phantom pain? I can see why lyrica hit.
I know what it's like when in 'their wisdom' they cut you loose. I was run over by a log lorry on a mountain rd 1hr from the nearest hospital.
I digress, the worst thing that happened to me was a buddy showing me how to clean and iv oxycodone hydrochloride. Endone. This became my DOC alongside pink and grey rock in the 80's-2000's.

Now taking lyrica b/d also but am very wary of it.

 

[Bodidly]

Prodrug's just another buzzword

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Correct, it does metabolize to morphine! Just like every single other opiate… lol

If heroin was rebranded big pharm would once again sell it. It turns quickly to morphine in your system and is an extremely good pain killer.

Most opiates DO NOT metabolize to morphine but are either active by itself or have unique metabolites.

Also what’s giving heroin it’s kick is 6-MAM (metabolite but it’s sometimes in the heroin itself too).

 

[Bodidly]

Knowledge that

 

[thebreadsticks]

Most opiates DO NOT metabolize to morphine but are either active by itself or have unique metabolites.

Also what’s giving heroin it’s kick is 6-MAM (metabolite but it’s sometimes in the heroin itself too).

Yeah, duh, 6-MAM. If there’s such a thing as 1-MAM, I’ve never heard of it until I reread what I typed.

And thank you for correcting me! I’m not sure where I got that idea. Maybe it had something to do with all my research being done while simultaneously having no knowledge or tolerance and a 80mg/day oc script. Time to do some rereading. Think the library has a copy of pihkal?

 

[BahHumpf]

Heroin is a great painkiller, but its potential for addiction far outweighs any benefits.
Withdrawal starts within hours of the last dose and tolerance rapidly increases.
If heroin was used for longterm treatment of pain, it wouldn’t be long before you’re taking it more to prevent withdrawals, then to reduce pain.
You would just end up with two problems, your pain and excruciating withdrawals if there was any interruption to your supply.
It’s only legitimate use is for once off pain relief after a major incident.
Unfortunately though, with heavy regulation of less addictive opioids, it’s more accessible than less addictive opioids.
With online markets, it’s easier to get heroin than it is to get codeine.
Codeine withdrawals aren’t a walk in the park either, but it’s a lot easier to get through than heroin withdrawal.

 

[yubacity]

I find its a great painkiller for body and mind