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Why is dilaudid effective on suboxone?

J

j0nj0n

Bluelighter
Joined
Feb 16, 2007
Messages
67
Just as the title says...why is it effective but others like heroin aren't?

I know I've been on a small dose of subs a day, about .5mg - 1mg.

As I'm running short of subs till i get paid I decided to IV 2mg dilaudid a few hours after taking .25mg of subs. Is the dilaudid just effective because of the small dose I've taken?
 
Kind of off topic but I've had three methadone docs Rx me Dilaudid for whatever reason because "it's the only one that is able to break through the methadone."

I don't know if there's some long lost or classified study out there about Dilaudid possessing super-potent affinity for the mu-opioid receptor; just saying what I heard. Perhaps the same might apply for Suboxone as well. Then again, perhaps this is complete quack flak.
 
I'm on sub maintaince and always have like 20 or 30 k4 hydromorphones. I think its because your on a low dose of subs that makes it work. Aside from that being on 4mg of bupe a shot of dilly won't work for me untill about 36 hours.
 
ro4eva said:
Kind of off topic but I've had three methadone docs Rx me Dilaudid for whatever reason because "it's the only one that is able to break through the methadone."

I don't know if there's some long lost or classified study out there about Dilaudid possessing super-potent affinity for the mu-opioid receptor; just saying what I heard. Perhaps the same might apply for Suboxone as well. Then again, perhaps this is complete quack flak.
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ive heard the same thing about fent, that its so strong that it can actually "break" through the binding affect of the bupe/methadone.

anyone else ever hear that?

edit: when i was in a research study, all the full agonists they experieminted on me with were hydromorphone. they were 50mg caps they had either pure powder or crushed up the pills. interesting no doubt.
 
'medicine cabinet' said:
ive heard the same thing about fent, that its so strong that it can actually "break" through the binding affect of the bupe/methadone.

anyone else ever hear that?

edit: when i was in a research study, all the full agonists they experieminted on me with were hydromorphone. they were 50mg caps they had either pure powder or crushed up the pills. interesting no doubt.
Click to expand...

same here.



fentanyl, dilaudid and opana are the only opiates strong enough to bust thru the suboxone threshold. i think its because they breach the BBB so fast.
 
MemphisX3 said:
same here.



fentanyl, dilaudid and opana are the only opiates strong enough to bust thru the suboxone threshold. i think its because they breach the BBB so fast.
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This is because the above medications, hydromorphone, oxymorphone and fentanyl all belong to a different class of opiods, they are opiate analgesics and therefore work through a completely different area of the brain than say percocet. They were created to be used in hospitals since they do not cause withdrawl over short term use. You're body can become depedent on them as well as your mind, like any other addiction, the difference in how it affects your brain can lead to long painful withdrawls and very easily be exposed to relapse. But think of it this way, you are taking suboxone daily and you break your leg in 4 places, the hospital needs to give you a pain medication that will not effect the "Bupe" in your receptors, that's what opiate analgesics do, and hence will not be affected by any sub.
 
This is an old topic, but the dilaudid broke through because the amount of bupe taken didn't nearly saturate the µ-receptors. That being said, high enough dosing of potent enough opioids have been known to break methadone/buprenorphine blockade. Fentanyl will of course break through it as it's more than twice the potency of buprenorphine itself.
 
I once wasted 300mg of morphine hoping it could break through the methadone I was taking daily. The only effects I felt was mild shortness of breath as well as chest pain. What a waste.
 
FutureDr. said:
This is because the above medications, hydromorphone, oxymorphone and fentanyl all belong to a different class of opiods, they are opiate analgesics and therefore work through a completely different area of the brain than say percocet. They were created to be used in hospitals since they do not cause withdrawl over short term use. You're body can become depedent on them as well as your mind, like any other addiction, the difference in how it affects your brain can lead to long painful withdrawls and very easily be exposed to relapse. But think of it this way, you are taking suboxone daily and you break your leg in 4 places, the hospital needs to give you a pain medication that will not effect the "Bupe" in your receptors, that's what opiate analgesics do, and hence will not be affected by any sub.
Click to expand...


That is untrue. Percocet (oxycodone) is also an opiate analgesic. Pretty much all opiates are analgesics....analgesic means painkiller. I think some of you guys are giving out misguided information. Fentanyl actually has a higher binding affinity for the mu opioid receptor than suboxone does, but oxymorphone, heroin, and dilauidid do not. I think the way that people feel them over their suboxone is because they are 1) on a small dose of suboxone and 2) use a larger than normal dose of their opiate to break through the suboxone. Suboxone is an opiate analgesic, just like pretty much every single opiate that is talked about on this forum, besides from maybe loperamide.
 
I think it's because of the low doses. I'm in treatment at the moment and have been on subs since last Thursday. I took a 2mg dose this morning and around 7 hours later dosed 720mg of dihydrocodeine and it worked. I guess it knocked the bupe off my receptors and has broken through, it's an enormous dose though.

It's true, any opiate if at a large enough dose will unbind the bupe. I can imagine if I had of had oxycodone it defiantly would have done the same. Bupe is only so much effective to stopping other opiates binding and at low doses isn't very effective as I've just noted.
 
It wouldn't have knocked the buprenorphine off of your receptors. It's just that at 2mg doesn't fully saturate your receptors. There's still some free to be agonized.

edit: this is why they dose 8, 16, even 24, and in the past 32mg of the stuff per day.
 
I addressed both of those topics, laC.......

:P just fuckin with ya.
 
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