Why do peeps feel the need to dump 400-600mg codiene , I really can't understand the justification of it unless u enjoy being itchy as hell and feeling poisoned , 90mg with some promethazine is usually more than enough for me , or just step up to oxy morph etc.. Am I missing something at these levels ? Why ?
-
OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Opioids Why go as high as 400mg codiene??
- Thread starter dez79
- Start date
Billard
Bluelighter
Right i often wondered that too, but not just with codiene with other meds too.. Like me just 10 mg of hydro or oxy is plenty enough while i watch my friends eat upwords of 100mg.. Think it has alot to do with tolerance.. And codiene is rather weak so i think ppl take more n more trying to chase the high but with codiene theres only so high you could get IME... But 120 mg was always my sweet spot for codiene.. Shit id never reccomened to take oxy or hydro to anybody but if there taking like 600 mg of codiene they def need some of the better stuff..
Sprout
Bluelight Crew
A) Tolerance.
B) The 400mg "ceiling" is really an arbitrary figure. The notion gained its place from misinterpretation of the metabolism of Codeine. While yes, it acts as a pro-drug via demethylation to yield Morphine at ~10%, which is centrally active, approx. ~60% of the Codeine is metabolised via glucuronidation to C-6G. C6G initially was considered either inactive, or purely analgesic, with Morphine providing the Mu-agonist euphoria, however, more and more studies are appearing which suggest the role of Morphine is much less than originally thought of when one considers Codeine as a psychotropic.
C) If said ceiling effect was in place, it is based on enzymatic concentration. Namely; the Cytochrome system enzymes CYP2D6, CYP2B4, CYP2D7 and CYP3A4, amongst other isozomes. The concentraton of these enzymes can be manipulated extraneously, such as by drinking GFJ or using Cimetidine, they vary naturally throughout populations due to genetic expression and, in some races and cultures, may be massively over or under-abundant. As such, the ceiling dose, if indeed it does exist, could differ between individuals on an exponential scale.
D) Some people just love the itchies.
B) The 400mg "ceiling" is really an arbitrary figure. The notion gained its place from misinterpretation of the metabolism of Codeine. While yes, it acts as a pro-drug via demethylation to yield Morphine at ~10%, which is centrally active, approx. ~60% of the Codeine is metabolised via glucuronidation to C-6G. C6G initially was considered either inactive, or purely analgesic, with Morphine providing the Mu-agonist euphoria, however, more and more studies are appearing which suggest the role of Morphine is much less than originally thought of when one considers Codeine as a psychotropic.
C) If said ceiling effect was in place, it is based on enzymatic concentration. Namely; the Cytochrome system enzymes CYP2D6, CYP2B4, CYP2D7 and CYP3A4, amongst other isozomes. The concentraton of these enzymes can be manipulated extraneously, such as by drinking GFJ or using Cimetidine, they vary naturally throughout populations due to genetic expression and, in some races and cultures, may be massively over or under-abundant. As such, the ceiling dose, if indeed it does exist, could differ between individuals on an exponential scale.
D) Some people just love the itchies.
4meSM
Bluelighter
Well it's all about tolerance and enzymes.
Codeine is converted into morphine by CYP2D6 so people with higher concentrations of the enzyme will technically get higher off the same dose than those who have deficiencies.
It has a lot to do with genetics.
Edit: oops didn't see Sprout's post, thats pretty much it
Codeine is converted into morphine by CYP2D6 so people with higher concentrations of the enzyme will technically get higher off the same dose than those who have deficiencies.
It has a lot to do with genetics.
Edit: oops didn't see Sprout's post, thats pretty much it
Last edited:
adder
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2006
- Messages
- 2,851
The highest dose of codeine that I took regularly for some time was 600-800mg, so I see nothing weird about taking 400mg. People also vary by the intensity of histamine reaction, at that time I didn't get any more itching from high doses of i.m.'ed codeine than I got from i.v.'ed morphine. And yes, I later switched to morphine, then to heroin and basically to anything that I could acquire because heroin's quality became inversely proportional to the price, then I wanted out but at the program the psychiatrist thought I didn't qualify as I was too young and not ruined enough, so I started buying methadone on the street as it was much cheaper than heroin. Funnily enough, methadone ruined me much more than any opioid ever did, I managed to quit but I was suffering from the PAWS and eventually landed on Suboxone. So I reckon it's still better to take 400mg of codeine than to switch to a stronger opioid and lose control completely.
Lady Codone
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2008
- Messages
- 2,134
Can't imagine taking that much. I'd puke and pass out for days. 30-60 mg is the limit for me. I guess some people have different tolerances/metabolisms. Or they just really like codeine. It tends to give me nasty headaches...almost like migraines.
Sprout
Bluelight Crew
When I used it with any frequency, I could hit around 1,600mg before the histaminergic action got too much - the dose-response-curve is highly skewed after 600mg.
Adding another 20% adds less than 20% positives, but gives much more than an extra 20% to the negatives (itching, nausea, emesis).
Adding another 20% adds less than 20% positives, but gives much more than an extra 20% to the negatives (itching, nausea, emesis).
i understand what you mean OP, i had one hellish of an experience in my early teens when i dosed way too much codeine, maybe 10-15 30mg pills as i was given them for free, and was opiate naive at the time, the only issue i had when it came on was the intense opiate itch, it was an itch i have never experienced, horrific, worse than anything in the world, and i was in a public place to so could not solve it. I'd go easy on dosing your codeine, as the itch from it is like no other opiate itch IMO, i've been taking opiates orally mainly for 5 years since, and haven't experienced an itch since, in any way i've dosed. Must've just been high doses of codeine.
Jesus X Christ 1600mg?? Do u still have a liver that works that's the highest I've ever heard of .
Funny u should say that I always attributed my migraine pain to rebound from not taking codiene then again I am addicted
sekio
Bluelight Crew
codeine is not toxic to the liver.
the simple answer is that everyone has different opioid tolerances, 90mg codeine may be good for you but for a chronic heroin user it won't even get them out of withdrawals.
the simple answer is that everyone has different opioid tolerances, 90mg codeine may be good for you but for a chronic heroin user it won't even get them out of withdrawals.
blueskies565
Bluelighter
I don't understand how your happy at 90mg. I guess it's just personal preference, without a tolerance I like around 400 because it's more intense and at that dose I get a bit of an itch which I have grown to love. Some people are just more sensitive to drugs than others or are looking for varying intensities. I guess your lucky you can feel good on such a low dose. And as others have noted many don't itch that bad on codeine even in large doses. Tolerance is of course another factor for more hardened users.
t6apb
Bluelighter
ceiling effect is bullshit, i need to take at least 700 or so mg to "feel" it, and i actually like the itch, i know its working when im itching like a muh'fucker
williamclarkonet
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2014
- Messages
- 100
I agree totally