🤝 Cultural 🤝 Why do you think Heroin & Cocaine have stood the test of time?

[DeathIndustrial88]

The morphinans just so happened go be vastly more euphoric than fent and zenes, due to their difference in MU1 and MU2 opioid receptor binding and probably other reason like the amount of histamine release causing a difference in euphoria, Im not super knowledgeable on opioid pharmacology though.

Well for some one who doesn't know much about opioid pharmacology, you sure nailed it on the head here!
I've read conflicting accounts on whether or not it's mu2 or mu3 that causes an opioid to be a lot more euphoric. But I think it's mu2. Which always reminds me of "MewTwo" or whatever it's name was, from Pokemon. lol And also makes me wonder if they got the names "Mew" and "Mew2" from "mu" & "mu2", lol. Highly unlikely but hey you never know.

I really believe subs receptors & all sorts of various things go into what makes an opioid euphoric or gives it, it's subjective effects.
Tramadol doesn't feel like codeine, hydrocodone doesn't feel like tramadol or heroin, heroin doesn't feel like hydrocodone, fentanyl doesn't feel like heroin, etc...

I think heroin has stood the test of time because it's one of the oldest & best there is. It's quick acting, euphoric, itchy, stimulating, sedating, warm & has decent legs if it's good purity. For me personally, heroin is much more enjoyable than any other opioid I've tried (from methadone, buprenorphine, tramadol to hydrocodone & fentanyl).

Cocaine however, I've always been confused about myself. If you want a stim high that lasts longer than 10-20 minutes, just do adderall or meth.
Hell, ritalin (methylphenidate) works very similarly to cocaine, just much longer acting. So why people go out of their way to pay expensive ass prices for cocaine, I have no idea.

I think the way society views these drugs also changes people's perceptions of them. For example, nobody really thinks about caffeine as a drug because it's so prevalent, legal & socially acceptable in our lives. That's why nobody cares about glorifying or mystifying caffeine, cause we all know what it's like. But when you make something scarce, harder to get, etc...like illegal drugs, etc.. it makes them seem more 'mysterious' and novel, which can also re-enforce their addictiveness as well. If heroin were as available as caffeine, I bet it would lose a lot of it's intrigue. And people like me could go on with their lives finally being able to take the meds they want.

 

[theslackernews]

The people who know better than us what's good for us would schedule caffeine if it were discovered today

 

[macaumacau]

I enjoy to use cocaine and meth

 

[the_ketaman]

So luckily in Australia, fent has only been a problem in counterfeit meds or non-opioid drugs(cocaine, ketamine) we have incredibly pure heroin from Asia and I can't see it changing.

 

[opiatekrzy]

Unfortunately heroin has become extinct in the United States in fentanyl has taken over

 

[Bubbybubble]

Good ol’ fashioned heroin and cocaine. My absolute favorite back in the day, was a nice speed ball. Never had an issue or a scare. But damn, I would be so scared being in active addiction in 2026. All the fentanyl in literally everything. I tried fentanyl once in December 2020, and overdosed. That was the first and the last time for me. It scared me straight lol thank god something finally did

Same. Heroine was actually the first thing I shot up but fuck that was back in 2010. I could do a pack with no issues clean my house, loved having sex. Now… I tried it one time back in October and it was half of a $10 shot it up and my homegirl found me in my truck I had overdosed which pushed my foot on the gas peddle of the truck so I was redlining my truck for a straight 20-30 mins. She thought something was wrong with the way my truck sounded. Never tf again. And mind you I have a high opiate tolerance. I can easily eat 15 1000 mg Vicodins and function. Shit scared tf outta me. You couldn’t pay me to do it again.

 

[Bubbybubble]

Well for some one who doesn't know much about opioid pharmacology, you sure nailed it on the head here!
I've read conflicting accounts on whether or not it's mu2 or mu3 that causes an opioid to be a lot more euphoric. But I think it's mu2. Which always reminds me of "MewTwo" or whatever it's name was, from Pokemon. lol And also makes me wonder if they got the names "Mew" and "Mew2" from "mu" & "mu2", lol. Highly unlikely but hey you never know.

I really believe subs receptors & all sorts of various things go into what makes an opioid euphoric or gives it, it's subjective effects.
Tramadol doesn't feel like codeine, hydrocodone doesn't feel like tramadol or heroin, heroin doesn't feel like hydrocodone, fentanyl doesn't feel like heroin, etc...

I think heroin has stood the test of time because it's one of the oldest & best there is. It's quick acting, euphoric, itchy, stimulating, sedating, warm & has decent legs if it's good purity. For me personally, heroin is much more enjoyable than any other opioid I've tried (from methadone, buprenorphine, tramadol to hydrocodone & fentanyl).

Cocaine however, I've always been confused about myself. If you want a stim high that lasts longer than 10-20 minutes, just do adderall or meth.
Hell, ritalin (methylphenidate) works very similarly to cocaine, just much longer acting. So why people go out of their way to pay expensive ass prices for cocaine, I have no idea.

I think the way society views these drugs also changes people's perceptions of them. For example, nobody really thinks about caffeine as a drug because it's so prevalent, legal & socially acceptable in our lives. That's why nobody cares about glorifying or mystifying caffeine, cause we all know what it's like. But when you make something scarce, harder to get, etc...like illegal drugs, etc.. it makes them seem more 'mysterious' and novel, which can also re-enforce their addictiveness as well. If heroin were as available as caffeine, I bet it would lose a lot of it's intrigue. And people like me could go on with their lives finally being able to take the meds they want.

I think the thing with the cocaine is shooting it. Just like meth. You will never get the feeling you get from shooting it doing it any other way. Shooting cocaine is amazing but the best part of the high is gone after 20 mins. That’s why they do it. Same with meth. The feeling you get last a little longer then cocaine but not by much. Then your just spun for two days. And I think tramadol and Hydrocodone feel the same. To me anyways. I think tramadol hits harder. You just have to realize a norco is 1000mg one tramadol is 50mg. If you took 1000mg of tramadol you would be fucking lit. My oppose tolerance is high af. I can eat 15 1000s and function. I take 15-20 tramadol I’m getting the same high but harder and longer. I tend to get a bad headache after using tramadol tho. I find it funny all the scripts I used to just throw in the trash cuz people told me they don’t do shit…until the first time they did.

 

[SoCalShordie]

Same. Heroine was actually the first thing I shot up but fuck that was back in 2010. I could do a pack with no issues clean my house, loved having sex. Now… I tried it one time back in October and it was half of a $10 shot it up and my homegirl found me in my truck I had overdosed which pushed my foot on the gas peddle of the truck so I was redlining my truck for a straight 20-30 mins. She thought something was wrong with the way my truck sounded. Never tf again. And mind you I have a high opiate tolerance. I can easily eat 15 1000 mg Vicodins and function. Shit scared tf outta me. You couldn’t pay me to do it again.

Literally same. Thinking back on the way I lived in my 20’s is so crazy. Literally feels like it wasn’t even my life. Like it was a dream or a past life or something. Waking up every morning knowing I will never have to worry about being dopesick again, that’s a victory lol.

 

[SoCalShordie]

I think the thing with the cocaine is shooting it. Just like meth. You will never get the feeling you get from shooting it doing it any other way. Shooting cocaine is amazing but the best part of the high is gone after 20 mins. That’s why they do it. Same with meth. The feeling you get last a little longer then cocaine but not by much. Then your just spun for two days. And I think tramadol and Hydrocodone feel the same. To me anyways. I think tramadol hits harder. You just have to realize a norco is 1000mg one tramadol is 50mg. If you took 1000mg of tramadol you would be fucking lit. My oppose tolerance is high af. I can eat 15 1000s and function. I take 15-20 tramadol I’m getting the same high but harder and longer. I tend to get a bad headache after using tramadol tho. I find it funny all the scripts I used to just throw in the trash cuz people told me they don’t do shit…until the first time they did.

I’ve never shot up meth. I only smoked it. After I got off heroin/opiates for good, I supplemented. Like, hey, I’m not doing heroin anymore so I can do whatever else I want bc it’s not heroin! So then there was Xanax. Then crack for a short time, much to my surprise. Never woulda thought. Then meth for like a year or two. Then the straight and narrow. I do still have myself a drink once the lil ones are asleep for the night lol.

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

I think the thing with the cocaine is shooting it. Just like meth. You will never get the feeling you get from shooting it doing it any other way. Shooting cocaine is amazing but the best part of the high is gone after 20 mins. That’s why they do it. Same with meth. The feeling you get last a little longer then cocaine but not by much. Then your just spun for two days. And I think tramadol and Hydrocodone feel the same. To me anyways. I think tramadol hits harder. You just have to realize a norco is 1000mg one tramadol is 50mg. If you took 1000mg of tramadol you would be fucking lit. My oppose tolerance is high af. I can eat 15 1000s and function. I take 15-20 tramadol I’m getting the same high but harder and longer. I tend to get a bad headache after using tramadol tho. I find it funny all the scripts I used to just throw in the trash cuz people told me they don’t do shit…until the first time they did.

Well, if you take 1,000mg of tramadol, you're most likely going to have a seizure or a bad time. lol

Technically hydrocodone is roughly the same potency as morphine. And tramadol's metabolite is only 1.5-5x less potent than morphine. I don't think it's fair to use the parent drug (tramadol)'s potency because it's not actually tramadol that you're feeling, you're feeling it's full agonist metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol.

Idk if my math is correct, but even at 5x less potency, 50 x 5 = 250. That means 250mg of tramadol is equal to 10mg of hydrocodone.
I'm not sure where you're getting 1000mg of hydrocodone's lol but they usually come in 5mg, 7.5mg & 10mg pills. 1000mg of hydrocodone would probably kill somebody if they had no tolerance. I think you might be looking at the acetaminophen mg in norco & thinking that's the mg of hydrocodone, but it's the smaller number.


I honestly think shooting drugs is over-rated. When you snort or plug a drug, it's still going into your capillaries & bloodstream pretty quickly.
You're just gonna have a few minute delay, which is no biggie to me. Sure it might be a tad more euphoric through IV, but I find the risks of IVing drugs outweighs the little bit of extra euphoria you might get or having to wait an extra minute to feel it. I think people who use needles just get addicted to the ritual of the needle honestly. But this is just my opinion.


But I do agree with you in that tramadol is a hell of a lot harder hitting than hydrocodone. I use to nod so hard on tramadol that I'd burn cigarette holes in my blankets. But I've never been able to get a good nod from hydrocodone. Sedation, yes, but never a proper euphoric nod.

Google's stupid AI ( I hate AI btw, but I suck at math, so it's helpful for that) says the following :

Based on the 5x less potency rule mentioned, 250mg of tramadol is equivalent to 10mg of hydrocodone (10mg
5 = 50mg, but since 50mg tramadol is 5x less than hydrocodone, we calculate 50mg 5 = 250mg). However, clinical equivalency tables often use a lower ratio, suggesting roughly 300mg of tramadol is equivalent to 30mg of hydrocodone

Damn, so 300mg of tramadol is equal to 30mg of hydrocodone? No wonder it's so much more enjoyable.

 

[TheLightBringer]

Well, if you take 1,000mg of tramadol, you're most likely going to have a seizure or a bad time. lol

Technically hydrocodone is roughly the same potency as morphine. And tramadol's metabolite is only 1.5-5x less potent than morphine. I don't think it's fair to use the parent drug (tramadol)'s potency because it's not actually tramadol that you're feeling, you're feeling it's full agonist metabolite, O-desmethyltramadol.

Idk if my math is correct, but even at 5x less potency, 50 x 5 = 250. That means 250mg of tramadol is equal to 10mg of hydrocodone.
I'm not sure where you're getting 1000mg of hydrocodone's lol but they usually come in 5mg, 7.5mg & 10mg pills. 1000mg of hydrocodone would probably kill somebody if they had no tolerance. I think you might be looking at the acetaminophen mg in norco & thinking that's the mg of hydrocodone, but it's the smaller number.


I honestly think shooting drugs is over-rated. When you snort or plug a drug, it's still going into your capillaries & bloodstream pretty quickly.
You're just gonna have a few minute delay, which is no biggie to me. Sure it might be a tad more euphoric through IV, but I find the risks of IVing drugs outweighs the little bit of extra euphoria you might get or having to wait an extra minute to feel it. I think people who use needles just get addicted to the ritual of the needle honestly. But this is just my opinion.


But I do agree with you in that tramadol is a hell of a lot harder hitting than hydrocodone. I use to nod so hard on tramadol that I'd burn cigarette holes in my blankets. But I've never been able to get a good nod from hydrocodone. Sedation, yes, but never a proper euphoric nod.

Google's stupid AI ( I hate AI btw, but I suck at math, so it's helpful for that) says the following :

Based on the 5x less potency rule mentioned, 250mg of tramadol is equivalent to 10mg of hydrocodone (10mg
5 = 50mg, but since 50mg tramadol is 5x less than hydrocodone, we calculate 50mg 5 = 250mg). However, clinical equivalency tables often use a lower ratio, suggesting roughly 300mg of tramadol is equivalent to 30mg of hydrocodone

Damn, so 300mg of tramadol is equal to 30mg of hydrocodone? No wonder it's so much more enjoyable.

Ive always been under the impression that tramadol is around 1/10 the strength of morphine. So 300mg tram would be 30mg morphine. Though ive seen tables stating 0.15 and 0.2, 0.2 seems massively too high as 300mg tramadol definetly isnt equivalent to 60mg morphine at all.

The information on hydrocodone seems mixed too, ive seen statements claiming its equipotent to oral morphine yet 5 - 7x more potent than codeine which would still place it below morphine. Ive always just assumed its slightly weaker than oral morphine. So 300mg tram would be slightly above 30mg hydrocodone

 

[DeathIndustrial88]

Ive always been under the impression that tramadol is around 1/10 the strength of morphine. So 300mg tram would be 30mg morphine. Though ive seen tables stating 0.15 and 0.2, 0.2 seems massively too high as 300mg tramadol definetly isnt equivalent to. 60mg morphine at all.

The information on hydrocodone seems mixed too, ive seen statements claiming its equipotent to oral morphine yet 5 - 7x more potent than codeine which would still place it below morphine. Ive always just assumed its slightly weaker than oral morphine. So 300mg tram would be slightly above 30mg hydrocodone

Yeah the numbers they use seem to be all over the place from site to site.
I too have read that hydrocodone is equipotent to morphine but I'm betting I wouldn't even feel 10mg of morphine.. but with zero tolerance, I could absolutely feel 10mg of hydrocodone, despite it being mild.

Of course it's hard to compare subject experiences at doses & such though.

But I think tramadol hits harder because it seems to potentiate itself. It has mild NMDA antagonist properties (which has been shown to lower & even reverse opioid tolerance in some cases). Plus it's a TAAR1 agonist, so it releases serotonin. And it's a weak reuptake inhibitor, but I think it's SNRI properties are so weak that they're almost imperceptible.

So with 300mg of trams, you're getting both dopamine & serotonin release, along with mild NMDA antagonism & moderate mu agonism.
With codeine, morphine & hydrocodone, you're mostly just getting the mu agonism, without all the other stuff. Plus they're shorter acting.

So maybe this is why tramadol can pack a harder punch (for the people it works for).

 

[Allylbenzene]

So luckily in Australia, fent has only been a problem in counterfeit meds or non-opioid drugs(cocaine, ketamine) we have incredibly pure heroin from Asia and I can't see it changing.

Funnily enough it looks like ketamine hits the same opioid receptor as fent and heroin.