Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
^Yup
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DPMC Moderators: tryptakid
Why Do We Treat Heroin Addicts Like They Deserve to Die?
- Thread starter Jabberwocky
- Start date
fixed.
psood0nym
Bluelighter
I agree, at least so far as what I've read is true. From Malcolm Gladwell's "The Tipping Point":
Honest emprirical evidence suggests heroin is far less addictive than common belief considers it. I was astonished when I came across the quoted evidence and the evidence quoted above it. My best friend from childhood "un-friended" me during his heroin use, and got another of his friends sent to jail partially because he introduced the drug to him. I think, in large part, the reason heroin is involved in the devastation of so many lives is because those who are on a path to devastating their lives by their own volition seek out heroin or similar drugs to absolutely numb the awareness of what they're doing and feeling, rather than because heroin itself is especially addictive. This is not to say it's not highly addictive RELATIVE to other drugs, just to undermine the notion that if you try it once you're hooked. I think that idea may be a rationalization those who strongly desire it for emotional escape use to use again until they're truly physiologically addicted.
LSDMDMA&
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2010
- Messages
- 12,827
I'd say heroin is a hell of a lot stronger/more addictive than i figured it was when i stared using.
only wya to find out how addictive it is is to use it yourself.
and i regret getting into it.
figured it was all fun and games to sniff some bags
and here i am a year later
only wya to find out how addictive it is is to use it yourself.
and i regret getting into it.
figured it was all fun and games to sniff some bags
and here i am a year later
ro4eva
Bluelighter
^ At the petting zoo?
Tryptamine*Dreamer
Ex-Bluelighter
As I have said many times, all drugs should be legal.
I'd like to also say that those addicted to heroin or other opiates should be provided with Naloxone in case of overdose - the person who OD'd may not be able to administer it to themself but if someone else were around, they could administer it. This would save lives. Instead, the price of Naoloxone was increased so much that it is unaffordable, I think because one company has a monopoly on it.
Something off topic:
About NMDA receptor antagonists for depression and addiction - would amantadine possibly be useful? It is a weak one but it seems to be a metabolite of some of the newer cannabinoids on the market. Maybe that would cause an antidepressant effect in those who use them.
I'd like to also say that those addicted to heroin or other opiates should be provided with Naloxone in case of overdose - the person who OD'd may not be able to administer it to themself but if someone else were around, they could administer it. This would save lives. Instead, the price of Naoloxone was increased so much that it is unaffordable, I think because one company has a monopoly on it.
Something off topic:
About NMDA receptor antagonists for depression and addiction - would amantadine possibly be useful? It is a weak one but it seems to be a metabolite of some of the newer cannabinoids on the market. Maybe that would cause an antidepressant effect in those who use them.
psood0nym
Bluelighter
I've been reading from this report and, yeah, ignoring evidence seems to be a huge problem. From a Chapter 13: Supplying Heroin Legally to Addicts:
So why has what works been ignored for so long and why is the Bureau of Narcotics able to sustain its political power and deleterious policies? I have to imagine it's because of these myths and the misguided moral conclusions members of the civically engaged public have drawn from them.
I also wonder how much of the psychological component of heroin addiction has to do with the myths that surround it. If more people knew of the actual "stickiness" of heroin use, as reflected, again, in this quote:
... perhaps heroin would have less of an imperious mystique, less of a sense of its being irresistible. The idea that heroin is only as addictive as these statistics imply is certainly not part of the popular culture's image of the drug. It seems like it's not really that big a deal -- it's something that's really fun, but very dangerous for a number of intrinsic and circumstantial reasons, and then you move on with your life because its just a chemical fling and nothing more -- and maybe that's the attitude that would result in the best outcomes if it were held more openly. I don't mean to downplay heroin's addictiveness, but if only one in nine people who have tried it currently use it in the last month that says something that is seriously at odds with common expectations. Heroin users aren't dancing with the devil, they're dancing with a partner 91 out of 100 don't really care to dance with if they can avoid it most of the time because of the company she keeps (skeezy junkies, the risks of jail time, disease infected needles, overdose risks for people who have promising futures, etc.). There's nothing romantic or daring about it. It's just a chemical escape and should be regarded as nothing more or less.
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Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
A quick question - How much bupe have you been on for all these years? If you're suffering from that dysphoria syndrome, I can attest that lower doses of bupe (1-2mg once or twice a day) provides much more of the agonist effect bupe can produce at low doses. Anyways I'd waaay prefer 1-2mg than anything more than that (especially insulfated, especially when in the form of a crushed up generic subutex pill).
Thanks for your post. Since 2007, for coming up on 6 years now in the Fall, I will have been on 1.5-2mg buprenorphine for the vast majority of it. Most often, usually 2mg broken into two 1mg rectal doses. I have been dosing my bupe rectally for ages now. =). Love it that way. Maybe 9 months or 1 year after I got on it in 2007 I started using it rectally.
Now, I'm on 3-4mg. I am finding I like that more. It does feel, physically, or maybe just because I'm thinking about it and causing it to be because of my mind, like I'm filling up MORE receptors, but only with half-as much power. Like the partial agonist properties of buprenorphine would seem to suggest. When I use 1-1.5 or 1.5-2mg a day, divided in two doses rectally, I feel like I have 80% of my receptors full, but it's activated it almost fully (and quite often euphorically).
I believe my mu-opiate receptors are pretty much shot at this point. I've been clobbering them everyday, on and on, for six years. It's quite a toll I'd imagine. And I imagine I had more mu-opiate receptors made in my body because of all the Suboxone I was putting into it, as it readjusted to getting opiates in a quantity from the outside world, from outside of my body.
I can't imagine getting off Suboxone now, and wouldn't want to for the rest of my life. But we'll see. My mental state - having dysthymia disorder, or anxiety/social anxiety/depression - makes it hard to get off buprenorphine, because it's helping me out as a psychiatric medication so much. And my physical dependence on Suboxone is vast. I always had Buprenorphine on the streets when I was starting oxycodone and heroin, so I became more addicted to buprenorphine than I did to anything else, as I said earlier.
anonone
Greenlighter
lol, you sure you wanna play that game with your doctor? Methinks he could end up getting _you_ set up for blackmail charges or some legal issue related to drugs. Might want to think about how this could play out, m'man. Just sayin'.
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anonone
Greenlighter
pharmakos
Bluelighter
damn you and your Night Time Stuffiness!
anonone
Greenlighter
you misspelled "Michael Jordan"
Kids was okay if a bit over the top with its gratuitousness at times, but it isn't 5 star material to me. Maybe 2 and a half.
EDIT: Odd...I just found a tribute mixtape to the movie that was recorded within the last couple years:
question I have since I'm not too hip to this artist in question (although I understand he is on the MTV sometimes): is it worth listening to? your thoughts
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ro4eva
Bluelighter
I'm...... not sure what I'm gonna do yet. Still weighing my options and thinking of the possible consequences, such as what you're saying. I dunno yet. We'll see.
I'm still in recovery today. Almost 17 months clean and I hate having to lead a double life due to possible persecution for my past. I'm careful about my track marks and the way I talk about drugs. Its like a dirty secret I have to keep hidden outside meetings.
Jabberwocky
Frumious Bandersnatch
LOL what has become of my beautiful thread!
Congrats sibling! I'm sorry to hear about your current situation though. But, with the physical/health and legal ramifications behind you (I'm assuming), what's forcing you to live a double life? Having to do that was what got me to stop using in the first place. Can't deal with that sort of shit, at least after a while I just got so tired of it. Even in and of itself, having to lead a double like caused just as many if not more than any of my drug use ever did.
If it's just track makes, that's not the end of the world. Although I can't remember them off the top of my head, there are some remedies that can make a big diff (certain creams, ointments and medical procedures). Must suck to have to wear long sleeves all the time if you're located in a warmer region
That said, I've know one fellow who had suck bad track, like you couldn't see any skin at all on his arms and most of his neck and other areas. Just scare tissue and whatever from the track. Plus the collapsed veins. Again, he was an extreme case, but you can still seem them on his arms, like dark black tattoos... ugh, makes me shudder thinking about it, poor guy. He obviously has had a rough time of it, although I have no idea where he is now or what happened to him.
Outside of professional circles, might it be possible to somehow work it with your friends and family. Or if they're not the issue, it's still a bitch... But then again, I can't help but imagine it's better in the long, if not the short, run to not worry about them (outside of certain circumstances such as work or criminal justice folks) when it comes to the average everyday people around you. Having to push something like that down and work hard to keep it under wraps can certainly do more damage than the alternative.
One day, if it's still a huge issue, you could probably find a plastic surgeon or something to help you out, all money issues aside. Doubt it would be cheap, but such is life...
Congrats sibling! I'm sorry to hear about your current situation though. But, with the physical/health and legal ramifications behind you (I'm assuming), what's forcing you to live a double life? Having to do that was what got me to stop using in the first place. Can't deal with that sort of shit, at least after a while I just got so tired of it. Even in and of itself, having to lead a double like caused just as many if not more than any of my drug use ever did.
If it's just track makes, that's not the end of the world. Although I can't remember them off the top of my head, there are some remedies that can make a big diff (certain creams, ointments and medical procedures). Must suck to have to wear long sleeves all the time if you're located in a warmer region
That said, I've know one fellow who had suck bad track, like you couldn't see any skin at all on his arms and most of his neck and other areas. Just scare tissue and whatever from the track. Plus the collapsed veins. Again, he was an extreme case, but you can still seem them on his arms, like dark black tattoos... ugh, makes me shudder thinking about it, poor guy. He obviously has had a rough time of it, although I have no idea where he is now or what happened to him.
Outside of professional circles, might it be possible to somehow work it with your friends and family. Or if they're not the issue, it's still a bitch... But then again, I can't help but imagine it's better in the long, if not the short, run to not worry about them (outside of certain circumstances such as work or criminal justice folks) when it comes to the average everyday people around you. Having to push something like that down and work hard to keep it under wraps can certainly do more damage than the alternative.
One day, if it's still a huge issue, you could probably find a plastic surgeon or something to help you out, all money issues aside. Doubt it would be cheap, but such is life...
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I think people at my work treat me different because I was once a painkiller addict. And now being on Suboxone, I know I am not really completely clean, but my life is better for sure. But I find some people don't seem to trust me, and I know there is a not so close friend and co-worker (like friend of a friend, more so) who most certainly knows about my old habits. I don't doubt for a second he may have told some people. I have even had people allude to me being a user at times, but more insinuation, not directly saying so.
Thing is, I feel people treat me as incompetent at times because of it. Maybe it is just me being paranoid, or these people are just jerks to everyone(well they kind of are). I do know most of management at my job think highly of me. I rarely call out, am always on time, and do more than just what is expected out of me. It is too bad, though, that with the stigma of having been a past addict, I may be looked down upon. Even if I work hard and do a good job.
Also, in my line of work we deal with a lot of heroin addicts. I won't get into exactly what it is, but we interact with them and we provide them with a service on many occasions. It is funny the things my co-workers will sometimes say about them, just because they are an addict. Saying they should just die and the world would be better without them. They are just assumed to be trash. Talking about them like they are pedophile rapists and murderers. Sometimes I will throw in my 2 cents, like hey maybe he will kick the habit and cure some horrible disease, or invent something great(trying not to sound too defensive because I don't want to sound like I am speaking from experience, sort of making it sound tongue in cheek). And I am sure these people would say the same thing if their brother/sister, son/daughter, or other loved one developed a drug problem. Granted a lot of the addicts out there are scummy people who abuse the system, but to generalize like that is a very poor thing.
Thing is, I feel people treat me as incompetent at times because of it. Maybe it is just me being paranoid, or these people are just jerks to everyone(well they kind of are). I do know most of management at my job think highly of me. I rarely call out, am always on time, and do more than just what is expected out of me. It is too bad, though, that with the stigma of having been a past addict, I may be looked down upon. Even if I work hard and do a good job.
Also, in my line of work we deal with a lot of heroin addicts. I won't get into exactly what it is, but we interact with them and we provide them with a service on many occasions. It is funny the things my co-workers will sometimes say about them, just because they are an addict. Saying they should just die and the world would be better without them. They are just assumed to be trash. Talking about them like they are pedophile rapists and murderers. Sometimes I will throw in my 2 cents, like hey maybe he will kick the habit and cure some horrible disease, or invent something great(trying not to sound too defensive because I don't want to sound like I am speaking from experience, sort of making it sound tongue in cheek). And I am sure these people would say the same thing if their brother/sister, son/daughter, or other loved one developed a drug problem. Granted a lot of the addicts out there are scummy people who abuse the system, but to generalize like that is a very poor thing.
'medicine cabinet'
Bluelighter
I have a lot of theories on the subject, but if you were to say go to the er with and abcess from injecting, you get red flagged in the system as a drug abuser. From then on in after waiting 3 hours in excrutiating pain while the nurses and other staff member fuck around and dont do their jobs you finally get seen and they treat you like something they scraped off their loafer. In the drs min the patient is using an illegal drug so they must be doing all sorts of other illegal activities, robbery to support their habit, rappe, jaywalking ect ect. If you ever really want to feel bad about yourself and your opiate porblem, go to the er, they are great at it...buttheads.
ro4eva
Bluelighter
I've had to deal with that sort of bullshit ever since I made the very costly mistake of telling one doctor at a certain hospital that I had been at a party and drank, smoke and did a few lines of blow. You should have seen his face. As I first let it be known that I was drinking/smoking, he had a smirk. But as soon as he heard the words "lines of coke," that smirk quickly changed into a slightly shocked facial expression. And what really ticks me off about the whole thing is that it happened close to 8 years ago, and they're still bringing it up whenever I go in there for whatever reason. I feel like losing it whenever a quack from that damn ER says to me, "I see here that in 2005 you tested positive for cocaine, you really burned your bridges. I'm sorry that you're in severe pain due to (one example) a kidney stone, but I can only give you IV Toradol, then I have to let you go." Excuse me?! And then they wonder why sooner or later some of us resort to using street drugs to dull our pain. What's the point of staying clean if I fucked up my chance to receive proper treatment in the first place?
^^lol@jaywalking.
I have to lead a double life as my record is clean. My tracks are fading (thank God I found bluelight before becoming an IDU for injection technique). Its a pain sometimes, but for the moment its all I got. I feel some of my coworkers suspect something as a couple of them were around before when I was still using. But fuck em. My managers are happy with my work, my supervisor is very content as well, and I get along with most of my coworkers. Then after I leave and go to an NA meetings I can be me and its freeing. Its also kinda fun living the jeckyl/Hyde life too, strange sense of freedom and excitement coupled with darkness and mystery.
I have to lead a double life as my record is clean. My tracks are fading (thank God I found bluelight before becoming an IDU for injection technique). Its a pain sometimes, but for the moment its all I got. I feel some of my coworkers suspect something as a couple of them were around before when I was still using. But fuck em. My managers are happy with my work, my supervisor is very content as well, and I get along with most of my coworkers. Then after I leave and go to an NA meetings I can be me and its freeing. Its also kinda fun living the jeckyl/Hyde life too, strange sense of freedom and excitement coupled with darkness and mystery.
ro4eva
Bluelighter
If you don't mind me guessing - You work at a methadone clinic don't you.
Speaking of methadone clinic staff - IME, in my years as a patient there, I kinda feel bad for the staff (at least at my clinic) as they have to put up with a lot of shit on a daily basis. And by that I mean that pretty much every day, there's a significant amount of people on the program who show up pissed off for the usual reasons. You have your dopesick who are in a bad mood because they haven't come in for days and are feeling like they'd rather die. Then there's a few who belong in a psych ward (schizophrenics), and so forth.
Whatever the reason, it's usually the staff that these patients tend to take their bad moods out on. I've seen so many nurses, counselors, pharmacy techs, etc. come in go in such a short time period. They usually quit without notice. One particularly bad day, I witnessed 3 counselors quit at the same time. A few of the staff still there now look like they're coming in stoned. I don't blame them. Anyways, my point being that I can see why they would talk shit behind our backs. Some of us give them reason to.
Then they have to deal with management, who are usually indifferent when it comes to complaints. "Deal with it" they say (according to one ex-staff I used to talk to). The big wigs are also apparently very greedy. Case in point - one of the toilets which is used to provide a urine sample has been missing the seat for at least a couple of years. They're too cheap to spend money on a fucking toilet seat. People have had to sit on a dirty rim at times as even he toilet paper is very sparingly changed. Sigh.