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P&S Moderators: JackARoe | Cheshire_Kat
Why do we have government?
- Thread starter rm-rf
- Start date
These valiant and self-sacrificing champions of righteousness, maintain and protect our society by guarding our very moral fibre against the many demons of greed and exploitation, sent to tempt the weak and naive of the world.
Yeah, right.
That is what a world leader is SUPPOSED to be like.
Does such a leader exist? No.
This is why the world is fucked up people.
The idea of an institution of somekind that creates inequality and promotes oppression I obviously do not condone.
However, an institution of somekind is needed to protect us against the weak (those who kill/rape/assault etc).
A revolution can only happen if everyone realises we're constantly being fucked over and we can do something about it.
The great thing is we can do something about it.
Help the people see.
Yeah, right.
That is what a world leader is SUPPOSED to be like.
Does such a leader exist? No.
This is why the world is fucked up people.
The idea of an institution of somekind that creates inequality and promotes oppression I obviously do not condone.
However, an institution of somekind is needed to protect us against the weak (those who kill/rape/assault etc).
A revolution can only happen if everyone realises we're constantly being fucked over and we can do something about it.
The great thing is we can do something about it.
Help the people see.
Im Delayed
Bluelighter
I think the police, who are an extension of the government, should serve and protect me against violent crime.
I do not think they should be rounding up non-violent drug offenders by the thousands and spending tax dollars on incarciration and community control.
[ 10 July 2002: Message edited by: Noodle ]
I do not think they should be rounding up non-violent drug offenders by the thousands and spending tax dollars on incarciration and community control.
[ 10 July 2002: Message edited by: Noodle ]
Im Delayed
Bluelighter
I don't value all things materialistic, but I do value my right to exist without having to worry about physical harm to my person in the form of crime or disease.
Our systems of government might be flawed in their execution, but that does not mean I want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I think if our entire system were to collapse tomorrow many of us would fall prey to the forces that drove our ancestors to come together in tribal/self-governing units in the first place.
And I'm honestly not sure if that would be better or worse.
It would probably just be.
Our systems of government might be flawed in their execution, but that does not mean I want to throw out the baby with the bathwater.
I think if our entire system were to collapse tomorrow many of us would fall prey to the forces that drove our ancestors to come together in tribal/self-governing units in the first place.
And I'm honestly not sure if that would be better or worse.
It would probably just be.
Can the positive energy's within our realms protect us from the negetive, without a leader?
My leader and guider of Life, is God, he guides me threw the ruff between the Dark and the Light.
Seth awesome sacred words, as all who contribute to the one Cause, Love your neighbor as you love yourself, and God. Just my 2 cents, my God may not be your God. I think a true God, leads us to our Peace within ourselves and others.
Yeah a revolution, Peace on Earth Good Will Towards Man, can't think of a better way of Life
My leader and guider of Life, is God, he guides me threw the ruff between the Dark and the Light.
Seth awesome sacred words, as all who contribute to the one Cause, Love your neighbor as you love yourself, and God. Just my 2 cents, my God may not be your God. I think a true God, leads us to our Peace within ourselves and others.
Yeah a revolution, Peace on Earth Good Will Towards Man, can't think of a better way of Life
Im Delayed
Bluelighter
Originally posted by nvr2old:
Can the positive energy's within our realms protect us from the negetive, without a leader?
My leader and guider of Life, is God, he guides me threw the ruff between the Dark and the Light.
Seth awesome sacred words, as all who contribute to the one Cause, Love your neighbor as you love yourself, and God. Just my 2 cents, my God may not be your God. I think a true God, leads us to our Peace within ourselves and others.
Yeah a revolution, Peace on Earth Good Will Towards Man, can't think of a better way of Life
somebody needs a reality check
someone needs a reality check?? My reality may not be your reality, my sanity not your sanity.
I only hope, and have faith that the Light will egnite in All, I can't show your light, your light is inside, it's what gives you passion, love and peace. I can only show you love, which reflects my Light, because we are connected.
Sorry you don't understand how i feel, it's me, and that's all I can be.
Much Peace I am not an extreme person, but when love fills your heart soo much, it's bound to overflow, even to some of those who don't wish to have it, sorry, but I still feel your awesome and I am but one flicker of light, imagine a world of total Light, no pain no gain, to reach out and be ridiculed for not living in reality, or is it? sorry but not sorry-much peace
we leaders and followers
sheep and goats
hunters and gatherers
and parts of ghosts, host, boast, most
we abuse
and accuse
we scorn
it's all part of the thorn, storm, torn, worn, worn, worn
![:\](https://bluelight.org/xf/BL_Images/Orig_Emoji/wrygrin.gif "wry grin :\")
I only hope, and have faith that the Light will egnite in All, I can't show your light, your light is inside, it's what gives you passion, love and peace. I can only show you love, which reflects my Light, because we are connected.
Sorry you don't understand how i feel, it's me, and that's all I can be.
Much Peace
I am not an extreme person, but when love fills your heart soo much, it's bound to overflow, even to some of those who don't wish to have it, sorry, but I still feel your awesome and I am but one flicker of light, imagine a world of total Light, no pain no gain, to reach out and be ridiculed for not living in reality, or is it? sorry but not sorry-much peacewe leaders and followers
sheep and goats
hunters and gatherers
and parts of ghosts, host, boast, most
we abuse
and accuse
we scorn
it's all part of the thorn, storm, torn, worn, worn, worn
Last edited:
Im Delayed
Bluelighter
Originally posted by nvr2old:
someone needs a reality check?? My reality may not be your reality, my sanity not your sanity.
I only hope, and have faith that the Light will egnite in All, I can't show you my light, your light is inside, it's what gives you passion, love and peace. I can only show you love, which reflects my Light, because we are connected.
Sorry you don't understand how i feel, it's me, and that's all I can be.
Much Peace
[ 10 July 2002: Message edited by: nvr2old ]
I dont know what your talking about but i'm pretty sure its not relevent as to why we need a government. By all means love your god but you'll quickly change your view when your living in a world where there is utter chaos due to lack of govt.
If everybody was convinced of this light shit your talking about then thats a different story but have fun convincing 5 billion how they should live like you.
Responding to Posts by imdelayed:
How quickly things change, indeed only on the first page of this thread you posted:
"i may be stupid or it may just be to early in the morning but who are you defending? What r u arguing for/against? I'm a bit unclear of the purpose of your post. " and yet now:
"i'm pretty sure its not relevent as to why we need a government" -> On this at least I can see where you are coming from. But since you don't understand her I don't see how you can judge that.
"If everybody was convinced of this light shit your talking about then thats a different story but have fun convincing 5 billion how they should live like you." -> Why did you post this. What do you gain by it, What does anybody gain by it. "I'm a bit unclear of the purpose of your post".
You are also trying to convince people of your beliefs, like everyone in this forum, that is what this forum revolves around, expressing to people your beliefs and hoping they will learn or take something from them. As well as improving your own beliefs. You do exactly the same. That is why some people don't like this forum, and stuff like this; it is also why others like it. SO I really don't know what you'r getting at, please englighten me.
Responding to rest of the thread:
Define government accurately it is really quite important. Take a small tribe of 10 people, it's very likely that one or two of the people would rise to become leaders of the tribe anyway. Given their strength, their intellectual attributes, their need to dominate etc.
Each different person will have a different view to how the system should work, it is not universally obvious how things within the tribe should be run, there will be ground of disagreement.
And the strongest people will rise to the top and lead, even if their decisions are not neccessarily the best.
You say maybe the primative were not so primative but I'm not convinced they did not have government of some kind.
Here is something I think is quite interesting:
Before perhaps a government of a country was more helpful to draw the resources of seperate communities that would struggle to communicate with one another all become a more efficient general system.
Now with globilisation of the internet it should be very possible for smaller communities to all communicate with one another and make an efficient system possible anyway.
And then you could have people vote on laws rather than a particular government.
You would still need taxes, a treasurer etc... to take care of healthcare, at least within the current system.
Maybe the treasurer would become the new government
[ 10 July 2002: Message edited by: Setarcos ]
How quickly things change, indeed only on the first page of this thread you posted:
"i may be stupid or it may just be to early in the morning but who are you defending? What r u arguing for/against? I'm a bit unclear of the purpose of your post. " and yet now:
"i'm pretty sure its not relevent as to why we need a government" -> On this at least I can see where you are coming from. But since you don't understand her I don't see how you can judge that.
"If everybody was convinced of this light shit your talking about then thats a different story but have fun convincing 5 billion how they should live like you." -> Why did you post this. What do you gain by it, What does anybody gain by it. "I'm a bit unclear of the purpose of your post".
You are also trying to convince people of your beliefs, like everyone in this forum, that is what this forum revolves around, expressing to people your beliefs and hoping they will learn or take something from them. As well as improving your own beliefs. You do exactly the same. That is why some people don't like this forum, and stuff like this; it is also why others like it. SO I really don't know what you'r getting at, please englighten me.
Responding to rest of the thread:
Define government accurately it is really quite important. Take a small tribe of 10 people, it's very likely that one or two of the people would rise to become leaders of the tribe anyway. Given their strength, their intellectual attributes, their need to dominate etc.
Each different person will have a different view to how the system should work, it is not universally obvious how things within the tribe should be run, there will be ground of disagreement.
And the strongest people will rise to the top and lead, even if their decisions are not neccessarily the best.
You say maybe the primative were not so primative but I'm not convinced they did not have government of some kind.
Here is something I think is quite interesting:
Before perhaps a government of a country was more helpful to draw the resources of seperate communities that would struggle to communicate with one another all become a more efficient general system.
Now with globilisation of the internet it should be very possible for smaller communities to all communicate with one another and make an efficient system possible anyway.
And then you could have people vote on laws rather than a particular government.
You would still need taxes, a treasurer etc... to take care of healthcare, at least within the current system.
Maybe the treasurer would become the new government
[ 10 July 2002: Message edited by: Setarcos ]
SgtD82,
I still do not follow your idea of NEED.
A question:
Do you or do you not benefit in some part from the division of labor and resources that our various systems of organization/government have made possible?
It is a yes or no question.
[ 10 July 2002: Message edited by: Noodle ]
I still do not follow your idea of NEED.
A question:
Do you or do you not benefit in some part from the division of labor and resources that our various systems of organization/government have made possible?
It is a yes or no question.
[ 10 July 2002: Message edited by: Noodle ]
Im Delayed
Bluelighter
Maybe i'm not being clear enough...
I guess what it comes down to is this...is government a necessity? No. Would existence cease to be if there were no governments? No. Would we be better off in many ways if we had never had government (which never could have happened)? Yes. Would we appreciate and see fit with doing only with that which matters? More than likely. Would we have the filthy society which we have today? I'm willing to bet not.
Im Delayed...I don't even believe in the Christian "God" as you so call it/him/her. My point is that the relationship set forth in an example can be applied to many different sets of examples and situations depending on how open minded you are and how willing you are to think. Think metaphorically...think outside the box. If someone is so totally consumed by superficiality and banality...thought is a difficult process. If one is used to being spoonfed ideas and thoughts to back those ideas...beginning to think on their own is a difficult process.
One of my arguments is that governments have promoted stupidity and ignorance...why? It serves the individuals who fill governmental positions' goals. What goals? Goals that are determined by motives such as greed, lust, envy, wrath, sloth, gluttony, and pride (so accurately termed by the Christian faith as the seven deadly sins). These human motives are universal as I have said before. Think about the fact that governments were undoubtedly based on these motives because these governments were based by people for people. Think about every action any government has ever taken. Look at the motives. Look at the lives of the people who made those decisions. Look at the actualy effects of those decisions and especially the effects on the people who make those decisions and the ones who surround them. Don't believe bullshit just because some "reputable" source says it's so. This includes governments...which of course include every single branch of the government from the federal or national to the smallest precinct or block. If a company or group states something...look at their affiliation with the government, families of major players in the government, and major corporations (which are by and large affiliated with the government). How surprised you would be if you didn't eat this shit like babyfood.
There wouldn't be a dependence on public schools (Im Delayed) for the great, valuable, and truthful education they give us. If there were no governments, and if there was a Taliban or whatever...would they be hating the population which inhabits this continent? There would be no war (think about what starts war, what fuels war, the motives behind war, and who provides cannon fodder for wars). As for Im Delayed's worry about the protection of affluence...well...i think that speaks volumes for itself. Also...Alf argued that people are not able to uphold rules for themselves. Think about this one...all that governments are...are just a small group of people enforcing a certain set of rules, beliefs, and standards upon a much much larger group of people. Alf and Im Delayed argue that humans are instinctly and naturally evil. This is debatable but in my opinion they are not. I could go on and on...if anyone wishes to debate a particular topic further...then name it.
I guess one main example of of the non-necessity of governments is this...Im Delayed's rebuttal of my comment about the corrupt values the United States was founded upon. Read it. Anyone who knows anything about actual history would laugh. Maybe I should be ashamed of my "anti-American" thoughts...nah. When you think about communism...think about the ideas...not what actually happened under the dictatorial regime who guised itself as communist.
Well...i've babbled a little much for now. If anyone wishes I provide a clearer standpoint and explanation of my standpoint...ask. However...like I said before...learn to think for yourself (this isn't directed towards the majority of Blers out there).
I guess what it comes down to is this...is government a necessity? No. Would existence cease to be if there were no governments? No. Would we be better off in many ways if we had never had government (which never could have happened)? Yes. Would we appreciate and see fit with doing only with that which matters? More than likely. Would we have the filthy society which we have today? I'm willing to bet not.
Im Delayed...I don't even believe in the Christian "God" as you so call it/him/her. My point is that the relationship set forth in an example can be applied to many different sets of examples and situations depending on how open minded you are and how willing you are to think. Think metaphorically...think outside the box. If someone is so totally consumed by superficiality and banality...thought is a difficult process. If one is used to being spoonfed ideas and thoughts to back those ideas...beginning to think on their own is a difficult process.
One of my arguments is that governments have promoted stupidity and ignorance...why? It serves the individuals who fill governmental positions' goals. What goals? Goals that are determined by motives such as greed, lust, envy, wrath, sloth, gluttony, and pride (so accurately termed by the Christian faith as the seven deadly sins). These human motives are universal as I have said before. Think about the fact that governments were undoubtedly based on these motives because these governments were based by people for people. Think about every action any government has ever taken. Look at the motives. Look at the lives of the people who made those decisions. Look at the actualy effects of those decisions and especially the effects on the people who make those decisions and the ones who surround them. Don't believe bullshit just because some "reputable" source says it's so. This includes governments...which of course include every single branch of the government from the federal or national to the smallest precinct or block. If a company or group states something...look at their affiliation with the government, families of major players in the government, and major corporations (which are by and large affiliated with the government). How surprised you would be if you didn't eat this shit like babyfood.
There wouldn't be a dependence on public schools (Im Delayed) for the great, valuable, and truthful education they give us. If there were no governments, and if there was a Taliban or whatever...would they be hating the population which inhabits this continent? There would be no war (think about what starts war, what fuels war, the motives behind war, and who provides cannon fodder for wars). As for Im Delayed's worry about the protection of affluence...well...i think that speaks volumes for itself. Also...Alf argued that people are not able to uphold rules for themselves. Think about this one...all that governments are...are just a small group of people enforcing a certain set of rules, beliefs, and standards upon a much much larger group of people. Alf and Im Delayed argue that humans are instinctly and naturally evil. This is debatable but in my opinion they are not. I could go on and on...if anyone wishes to debate a particular topic further...then name it.
I guess one main example of of the non-necessity of governments is this...Im Delayed's rebuttal of my comment about the corrupt values the United States was founded upon. Read it. Anyone who knows anything about actual history would laugh. Maybe I should be ashamed of my "anti-American" thoughts...nah. When you think about communism...think about the ideas...not what actually happened under the dictatorial regime who guised itself as communist.
Well...i've babbled a little much for now. If anyone wishes I provide a clearer standpoint and explanation of my standpoint...ask. However...like I said before...learn to think for yourself (this isn't directed towards the majority of Blers out there).
Government seems to be an aspect of society, and I think society is evolutionary. When humans were nomadic tribes, roles had to be dictated based on survival. There had to be organization. "Uhnk, find wood. Grhg, start fire. Dhk, Go hunt. Fhig and Dha, watch over tribe."
So there is the seed of government.
So there is the seed of government.