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    Empathogenic
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Why do people roll so often if we all know the once a month rule?

because it's not a rule? it's just a recommendation. it's recommended that you have like a months break or whatever between rolls, but not everyone's gonna do it.

people love the buzz, they'll probably wish they were more careful some day, but let them have their fun.
 
sundayraver said:
and for fat asses its great for weight loss.
Pop a pill sit on your ass and the lbs will drop off - at least in my case they do :D


hah, funny how ecstasy has been used very sucessfully for weight loss, I don't know how it happens but everytime I come back home im like 4 pounds lighter and very very hungry with growling stomach.
 
It's because my city is so saturated with awesome EDM events... We pretty much can't go a week without an outstanding act coming to town or a great rave happening and for that... you need rolls. AHHH, RC's aren't easy enough to get otherwise i'd definately indulge in RC's since... they are spectacular.
 
Interesting. I mean, I kinda "get it" more with something like opioids or methamphetamine. With ecstasy, personally, I can have one pill in an evening. If I redose, even with a half pill, I go straight into feverish-confusion-serotonin-drunk mode. It's entirely possible I'd be more familiar with the drive to do more E if I got something more out of it. Alcoholism's kinda like that - if you tend to metabolize liquor better and hold it with less ill effects and hangovers, you're gonna be more prone to the addiction.
 
Educate the ignorant, pity the stupid.

Stupidity is the reason. MDMA is not that good for you to want to ruin yourself. Take it from me. For those who say they have no ill effects, keep it up. You'll wish you hadn't. Promise you.
 
See its funny, When I first started I only rolled once every 4 months. When my environment changed and events with artist like AVB PVD and Tiesto started to come into my scene, my usage went up to maybe once every 2 months.

I still see once a month as too much, but after being to so many events and having so much fun I can see why some "Ravers" get carried away. Its a magical mind blowing time. What more could we want out of life? But I think a lot of people in that scene fall in love with it. New Friends, great music, colors, people,vibes...but many will lose touch with reality. For them they are lost. All they have is "e c s t a s y". There is nothing else,(not even a brain) so what do they stand to lose?

Its important to be educated on MDMA. But many get caught up in the scene before they even know what they are doing or how it hit them.

xthunderbirdscx said:
The brain downregulates serotonin transmitters to compensate for the over-abundance of serotonin. Once the E wears off, and your brain is out of serotonin and has many receptors downregulated, you have only a fraction of the amount of serotonin function that you did before. This is what causes the depression and after-effects.

Your brain, (it is commonly agreed upon) takes a good amount of time(1-3 months) to UP-regulate the transmitters back to normal states, and refill its serotonin supply. This is only from one use of MDMA.

Down Regulation occurs from only one time use? I dont think so. Where are your sources?
 
hahah YES!

good times :P

Taking a short break for now...prob not until Armand Van Helden at the end of November, or even Summerfield dayze, but I digress....

The people who continually smash themselves with extacy week after week are part of one of two groups imo, with 1) ignorant or 2) careless. Given the majority of the population I am going to lean towards ignorance. I hope that people eventually realise what they are doing to themselves, but I think we all know this won't happen :(
 
I agree with what most people have said so far.
I also believe it is because the negative effects don't always appear right away so people start to think "oh, it won't happen to me". A lot of people would rather have instant gratification as apposed getting a long run out of MDMA, for instance rolling hardcore every week for 2 years as apposed to rolling once every few months for 10 years or more. We live in a culture of people who want what they when they want it and don't want to wait so I think that plays a role.
 
GenericMind said:
Of course I can't. There haven't been any studies on Piracetam's effects on MDMA or any biological system it affects. We're not even sure exactly how it works.

Can you show me some references to the contrary?
well i am very skeptical it brings the magic back because of increased oxygen?
such a drastich potentiation could only be because of increased serotonin receptor sensitivity
there was an interesting discussion about this on another forum, apperantly stress hormones are able to upregulate some serotonin receptors
And this may provide some insight as to why piracetam may enhance MDMA. Remember that corticosterone is the dominent stress hormone in rats; cortisol in humans, so it could be assumed that something that stimulates corticosterone in rats will stimulate cortisol in humans.
lol where did you get that oxygen theory from, i would be very suprised that is the reasen it brings the magic back=D
 
royksopp said:
Down Regulation occurs from only one time use? I dont think so. Where are your sources?
thats pretty normal, every time you take MDMA you serotonin receptors will down regulate a bit, this builds up so after a while you really have to wait a long time to get the magic back
 
Because it's a lot cheaper...I can go out and spend $150 in the pub on drink, or I can just buy 5 pills for $20 and be wasted for the entire night..

I've took pills every week for the last 6 weeks or so, will try to stay off them this week but I've got a night out on Oct27 that I'll defo be taking pills at.
 
MeDieViL said:
thats pretty normal, every time you take MDMA you serotonin receptors will down regulate a bit, this builds up so after a while you really have to wait a long time to get the magic back

I just thought that it was a physical change that built up over time in response to continued use. I had no clue that your receptors are downgrading every time you roll. Are you sure that the neurons move and regrow that quickly?

This is pretty scary if true.
 
royksopp said:
I just thought that it was a physical change that built up over time in response to continued use. I had no clue that your receptors are downgrading every time you roll. Are you sure that the neurons move and regrow that quickly?

This is pretty scary if true.

Well, receptor downregulation is a fairly common process. Your neurons say, "Hey, I'm getting a lot of action here!" The cell responds by tagging (phosphorylating) the receptor and a protein called Beta-arrestin is called into action. It latches onto the tagged receptor and then, I believe, attaches to the cytoskeleton on the other end to drag the whole thing into the cell. This is not permanent. Your receptors are being downregulated all the time, and I do not consider this normal event, even when happening on supra-normal circumstances, to be damage. Damage, in my opinion, is when those little nubby axonal buttons are so out of the serotonin they usually release that the reuptake transporter starts taking in free radicals, essentially *bleaching* the axon. That's what MDMA can do to 5-HT neurons, as meth does to DA neurons. Happy rolling!
 
MeDieViL said:
lol where did you get that oxygen theory from, i would be very suprised that is the reasen it brings the magic back

My mistake, increases the flow of ions in the brain, not oxygen. If anything this could potentiate MDMA by allowing Voltage gated ion channels to reach action potential faster. It has nothing to do with downregulation or tolerance.
 
royksopp said:
I just thought that it was a physical change that built up over time in response to continued use. I had no clue that your receptors are downgrading every time you roll. Are you sure that the neurons move and regrow that quickly?

This is pretty scary if true.
Read thedea.org about neurotoxiticy, MDMA is no neurotoxic to humans, at least not in the same way as with animals (we can measure SERT wich should be changed if we did suffer that damage)
 
GenericMind said:
My mistake, increases the flow of ions in the brain, not oxygen. If anything this could potentiate MDMA by allowing Voltage gated ion channels to reach action potential faster. It has nothing to do with downregulation or tolerance.
hmm, do you think such thing could reverse a tolerance? maybe not tolerance itself but make it possible to achieve the magic again?
 
MeDieViL said:
in my opinion taking mdma weekly isnt that bad, altough there are tolerance issues wich i have resolved with piracetam for the time being

saying it turns to a speed like effect is total bullshit, even tough the magic is gone, it still has all the social aspects of it

Well, you obviously just started taking MDMA within the last six months, I'm sure.
I can tell you from experience, that you keep it up...it won't feel simply like "speed".
No way, how could we ever dull down your precious MDMA into considering it to be ANYTHING LIKE AMPHETAMINE? Yeah.

You won't just feel a speedy effect. You'll feel a sloppy ass, dazed feeling. A dazed feeling that feels more simply put, "fucked up". It won't feel like you're rolling, and most likely, YES. It will lose it's serotonergic effect. You expect to combat well-known and accepted abuse to your system with Piracetam? Oh...well, unforunately...
This all goes to show that piracetam produces widely differential effects on the levels and turnover of monoamines in the brain, which are probably very condition-specific. Other studies indicate that piracetam decreases serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine brain concentrations in rats, or increases levels of all three [1, 9]. Piracetam yields differential effects on MAO as well, with studies finding either net inhibition or net stimulation [1, 10]. All of this taken together seems to indicate that any effect on monoamines probably occurs far downstream of the original effect, and this would be in line with the observation that no direct effect on dopaminergic, serotonergic, or adrenergic transmission has been found [1].

So, keep using MDMA every week. Take your nootropic too. I mean, the gamble is well worth it, right? Let me put it into a visual for you...

*Wait three months, be quasi-safe from extreme damage and perhaps even maintain the supposed "magic"...

-OR-​

*Eat MDMA every week, take a nootropic with no confirmed direct effect on those receptors, and end up with an extremely harmed serotonin system? (not to mention what else)


If you don't choose the second option and stick to it, you're better off being braindead. Then again, I'd actually question if you were now.

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1. Shorvon S. Pyrrolidone derivatives. Lancet. 2001 Dec 1;358(9296):1885-92
 
The Monkey Mantra said:
Monkeys take something like 10-14 days to recover serotonin levels after ecstasy.

With all the research showing how long it takes serotonin function to normalize after a *sane* dose of MDMA, I'm curious as to WHY people continue to take pills once a week. I mean, the recommendation has been to dose about 100 mg a month and no more. If people know the magic will inevitably be lost, why do they fuck with it? I don't wanna play the "Ravers are dumb" card, but seriously, I don't friggin' get it. With all those research chemicals out there, can't we just keep our E to once a month and, if you really have nothing better to do than party, intersperse it with something else?

The education is out there, but what are your (the posters on this board) thoughts about why you choose to dose more than you should? Is it addiction, culture, or self-destructive desires? What's the motivation?

Because not everybody is educated on the subject like you and I are.

Some people may not care, a lot of people I have come across are very skeptical about internet sites and information that comes from them in regards to doing drugs (I have been in so many arguements with kids who swear that there was heroin in their E pills, and that double stacked pills are the best, lol..).. some people are just ignorant and stubborn, they refuse to be corrected and they dont want to know the truth..

Due to the amazing euphoric feelings that MDMA gives to most people, it would only be logical to assume that some people may "bend the rules" and continue using MDMA over the recomended limit...

Fact is there is so many people out there who know nothing about drugs, yet do them everyday, and they will learn the hardway that MDMA is not to be messed with!
 
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