Why do I suck at Math?

[StrawPipes]

I just can't seem to get a grasp on it. I have a pretty good GPA.. a 3.3 in sciences and a 3.2 overall. My goal is to get into Medical school or pharmacy school someday.

It's going to be hard for me to get into pharmacy scshool though cause I just cant seem to understand math. Like when my professor is lecturing it it seems really easy and I can do it in class, but I just can't understand the harder questions in the chapters; specifically applications.

Is there any sites to learn mather easier and better? Perhaps any books/text books that get's an understanding of it? If I can't get into Med school or Pharmacy school after so many tries I'm going to try to get into grad school for chemistry and major in organic, but I can't figure this shit out. I have trouble with basic algebra and only receieved a B at my university...

Any tips or pointers?

 

[CoffeeDrinker]

Hmmm. Basic algebra is pretty much just learning how to + - * / any function, no matter how ugly it may appear. Other than that it's pretty much just factoring and simplifying. I think factoring is the only thing that is remotely thought provoking and is probably what is giving you trouble if you are finding calculus hard.

There are loads of books and tutors available though.

 

[rant*N*rave]

Get a tutor. Hands down the best way to do it. Your school should have a resource center or something to direct you to a good person.

Another thing that has always worked well for me is to get a math book that has a solutions manual with full worked solutions to the problems so you can see some good examples and have some help on questions you don't know how to get through.

A lot of math is just repetition, especially if it's not intuitive to you.

 

[Binge Artist]

Any tips or pointers?

Give me an example of the type of math problems you are having trouble with. And I will do my best to give you BOTH a solution, AND an explanation of the thought process that led to the solution.

 

[StrawPipes]

Give me an example of the type of math problems you are having trouble with. And I will do my best to give you BOTH a solution, AND an explanation of the thought process that led to the solution.

Well I'm currently not in Math but let's just say I have problems with easy shit. Like Physics is real hard for me too.

I can't get a tutor at my school cause my grade isn't/wasn't low enough so I'm not allowed one. I need to find a good txt book to study with solutions but then I have to find the time and motivation to actually study the problems.

It's in god's hands now..

 

[yougene]

It seems like your only problem is you're not prepared to put in the time to get good.

 

[Rogue Robot]

It seems like your only problem is you're not prepared to put in the time to get good.

I don't know if that is true to say. I am a person similar to the OP in that I am absolutely horrible with anything beyond Trig/Geometry. Some people just really do not genuinely understand the concepts and thinking involved in certain areas of math, but that doesn't me they/we/I are lazy people. Some concepts just do not make sense to some people.

 

[Binge Artist]

Some concepts just do not make sense to some people.

One in particular, is the idea of women watching porn. But I guess that's a whole nother thread...


But I will say the first semester of basic algebra (like, 8th grade or something) damned near broke me. And as the semester progressed, I just became more and more lost. However, once that basic algebra clicked to me, it was sort of like a grand scale "mathematical awakening"...I literally went from not knowing how to solve something like "3x + 7 = 2x + 14" to teaching myself the basics of trig and calculus over the course of a month.

 

[AmorRoark]

I second the 'get a tutor' sentiment. Even if yougene is right and you're not putting the time in, a tutor will make sure you do put the time in and probably help motivate you.

If you can't afford a tutor/your school doesn't offer those services (I highly doubt it) you could ask a friend who is in the same courses to help you. If there are no friends in your class you can ask your teacher if he has time to go over the problems with you after school or if he can set you up with another student as a tutor himself.

 

[China Rider]

Somethings come naturally and some don't.
If it's not natural I wouldn't bother wasting your time.

 

[yougene]

I don't know if that is true to say. I am a person similar to the OP in that I am absolutely horrible with anything beyond Trig/Geometry. Some people just really do not genuinely understand the concepts and thinking involved in certain areas of math, but that doesn't me they/we/I are lazy people. Some concepts just do not make sense to some people.

When I was taking Calc II it didn't completely make sense to me either. But I didn't have to completely understand it to learn the proper procedures. The understanding came after when I started grasping the bigger picture.

I understand that taking all this thinking into the abstract is difficult. But I've encountered a lot of people who whine about how they don't get math the WHOLE time they are doing a math problem. How are you supposed to study math with this pattern of behavior?

I agree that getting a tutor is helpful. Also working in groups, and adopting the habits of successful peers.
Spend enough time doing the harder problems. They might initially take a lot longer to do, but if you can do those you can usually do the easier ones.

 

[Heuristic]

Another vote for a tutor.

I don't think that there's anything you would simply be incapable of understanding (though I'm not speaking with much mathematical knowledge under my belt either). If you can understand logic, consistency, rules, then you can understand math.

It sounds to me like you're understanding what's happening in class, to the extent that when the teacher says something, it makes sense you. When you encounter a problem later, though, I suspect that you try to imitate what the teacher did rather than apply the concepts which were taught. And that, perhaps, is why you find math difficult. You're doing more imitation of the teacher and less actual learning of the concept. The WORK of applying that concept to different problems is really up to you.

One way of checking whether you actually understand the concept would be to ask WHY the concept works, and then further to test yourself in the understanding of when the concept can be used, and when it can't be used, and, again, in each case, asking yourself why.

In a sense, this is learning the "law" of the concept, and since the law is a result of logic, it will always be true. Once you know the law, you're in good shape to start applying it, confidently, to any problem with which it might be helpful.

The exercises in the book, giving you a chance to practice, are important, and if the problems are good, you'll be figuring out some new aspects to the concept on your own, or perhaps seeing some surprising relationships.

[both Binge (I think, but am unsure), and RL actually have graduate training in mathematics, so if they say anything different than I do, just ignore whatever I said which was different]

Anyway a tutor will help you bridge that gap between seeing why what the teacher does makes sense, and understanding the actual concepts at a deep enough level for you to feel confident in playing around with, experimenting with them, and applying them.

 

[8L4YN3]

smoke heaps of bongs that always make me feel like jesus

 

[StrawPipes]

No but I'm being honest about this. My university doesn't allow tutors unless your Grade is C or lower. So i honestly can't get a tutor unless I drop my grade on purpose. The only reason why I'm asking is cause I think this will fuck over my PCAT score and I have a couple friends who aren't in college even, and yet the excel on any math. One buddy of mine never did his homework or anything and he would show up on test dates and Ace the test and leave. However, the teachers here base part of your grade upon attendance which is why he had to drop out. I tried getting him to help me a few times but he doesn't like doing Math unless he absolutely has too. Which in a sense goes against the theory of "having a right attitude set."

So name some textbooks that could help. I'm thinking about just getting Algebra for dummies than master that and take a calc class or two to try to get a better grasp on it.

 

[Cyc]

You can always get a private tutor. It's really none of the University's business.

I'm pretty terrible with mathematics too. I find it deceptive, time-consuming and tedious. I often feel like math problems often go far out of their way to be confusing or subversive to the reader.

I find myself reading problems several times, then I try to merge my thoughts on the matter with the rules I've learned. Being a global thinker, I don't do things in a linear way. I find I'll learn something for hours, and then after asking 100 questions, it just *clicks* and I get it.. but then I'll think to myself. FUCK, WHY DIDN'T YOU JUST EXPLAIN IT LIKE THAT IN THE FIRST PLACE INSTEAD OF WASTING MY TIME!

I really hate the way mainstream mathematics is taught. Almost every math class I've ever taken has failed to emphasize the relationships that would have been helpful for me to learn the concept, in the process completely failing to relate to me as a student. Lay out the full thing and I'll piece it together in my own way. Stop trying to feed it to me line by line.

I want textbooks to have 100 example problems, done to completion in every imaginable way. Yet every textbook I've read thinks it's funny to challenge the reader to learn by applying each individual concept or giving hints. It's fucking redundant and tedious. Give me the answer sheet, I'll study it, then I'll learn. That's how I learn. Fucking deal with it and quit dicking me around.

Anyways, that's my math rant. I feel better now.

 

[StrawPipes]

^^ A very good rant indeed and I concur 100%. I still believe the notion that some people get it and some don't. I understand that I might be able to understand it eventually, but it's so time consuming and it's hard for me to stay focus.

My friend is a great example of this. He taught himself computer progamming and by doing so he learned to do math easily and proficiently without an instructors help. For me, human behavior comes very natural to me. I don't need to understand all the theories between psychology and sociology yet I have a good understanding and guess on what the troubled individual is going through. I seem to be able to throw out ideas or thoughts that individual has never thought of and it seems to help him or her a lot. I wish math was the same way. I just really want to get into Med school or Pharmacy school and I fear this lack of Math knowledge is going to be a burden for me when it comes time for the PCAT.

Could someone explain to me why Math is so important in Pharmacy? I understand there's a lot of chemistry involved and stuff, but wouldn't the Pharmacist just need to know the Types of drugs, their interactions, adverse effects and physiological aspects? I don't know why I would need a good Math background for that. I took a Pharmacology class and there was barely any Math at all incorporated in it..

 

[Jamshyd]

I totally agree with cyc.

IMHO, I think there are two main reasons why a lot of people seem to find math very frustrating.

1. It seems that scientists (most that I read/talked to at least, and that's a lot) have terrible language skills (I found this to be true for both English and Arabic-speaking scientists), and therefore have a hard time articulating what they're trying to teach you. And it seems that the more mathematical the science is, the less articulate they become. It looks something like this: Biologists > Chemists > Computer Scientists > Physics > Mathematicians, in order of most to least able to tell you what they're trying to tell you. In short, they make bad writers, and worse teachers.

2. Dyscalculia. This is an actual learning disability that you can find in the DSM-IV as a sub-set of Dyslexia. When I tell people I have number-dyslexia, they laugh, thinking that I'm telling joke. As a matter of fact, I do - not only do I almost always read numbers wrong, but I also find them extremely hard to memorize. Associated with that is directional dyslexia, which I also have - I simply am unable to tell left from right without thinking hard about it.

So in my case, it isn't the math that's the problem - when explained by the rare breed of articulate mathematician, I can actually grasp the concept very well - it is the numbers themselves that ruin things for me.

 

[An Iz]

Put me down as another voter for "you don't put the time in"

I know that some people have natural abilities in certain areas, but for the vast majority of us, we sweat knowledge into our brains.

 

[rant*N*rave]

FWIW, I'm VERY strong in math/computational sciences/programming, but there are many concepts up in the linear algebra/calc 2/higher area in math and certain functionalities in object oriented programming languages that I absolutely did not understand at first and still got As in my classes. You can memorize how to do almost any kind of math problem step by step. Sometimes there are LOTS of steps so it takes a lot of effort to make and memorize that list, but it's doable in damn near every instance. I even memorized a couple proofs for one class because there were a couple steps that evaded me logically in terms of seeing a means to an end. And at the end of the day, when I finally did understand the concepts, having that strong core of data knowledge helped really cement the idea in my head.

I suggest reading into the JUMP math program. It's designed for elementary/middle/some high school students, but the concepts behind it apply to anyone learning any math at any age. Having a bad attitude about math is extremely destructive. "Math is hard" should be wiped from everyone's vocabulary. Math is challenging, but it is NOT hard. It's very simple, actually. That's the beauty of it.


And I will second how much of a pain in the ass it is dealing with math/science teachers. Even in my high level classes, there are students that have the writing skills of a middle schooler. I cringe during group projects, because there is no way I could possibly red-ink up our papers enough to bring it up to my standard of writing. Unfortunately, it seems that one area of expertise often trades off for another in those brain centers. And these are all the people becoming professional scientists. I have had so many shitty math and science teachers it boggles the mind - you just can't understand what they're getting at half the time, if not much more... I thank god I had such an awesome professor and TA for my linear algebra/diff eq/calc 3 class. It made it sooooooo much better than most of my courses, even though it was still very difficult. I felt it was worth my time to study harder because I knew I'd get it eventually.

 

[scureto1]

Cyc, www.cramster.com is great for what you're seeking. It has all of the most common textbooks already uploaded to it, and nearly every problem in them worked to completion, either by peers or experts (it is specified who they were done by) along with each step and the mathematical justification for each step. It was an absolute lifesaver when i was in calculus - it was so much more helpful than the book and the teacher that I stopped going to class but my grades still improved. I learned math best in the same way that you are saying you prefer to learn it.

Unfortunately you can only get the odd-numbered problems for free, to get the rest you have to pay a membership fee, I forget how much.