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SLR Moderators: Senior Staff
Why do gay/bi people NEED to come out?
- Thread starter wesmdow
- Start date
doofqueen
Bluelighter
Raz said:
Perfect post
Strawberry_lovemuffin
Bluelighter
essex boy said:
Sorry? Do you have an issue with what I posted? Say so, if so. Being obtuse isn't clever.
Raz
Bluelighter
I find it interesting that when a heterosexual man and woman raise a child, their sexual orientation is the absolute most distant thing that anyone considers when it comes down to judging their right to be parents (as it should be).essex boy said:
Make it a gay couple and suddenly the sexual orientation is the ONLY thing that matters. Who I fuck has absolutely ZERO relevance to my ability to nurture and raise a child.
I am exercising a massive amount of self-control by not going off-tap, but you are trolling....you are entitled to your opinion, distasteful as anyone in their right mind might find that, but learn to express that opinion with respect to other posters or get the fuck out of this forum.
Strawberry_lovemuffin
Bluelighter
^it's darkhorse/Caleb again. Don't take too much notice Raz.
Lmdub
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 18, 2006
- Messages
- 54
it is a pretty lame scene in the states. i am 19 and marriage is pretty far off in my future but at this point i can't marry anyways so whats the point(to me marriage and the legal equal are the same, it doesn't have to be religious). i don't see any legal change coming before there is widespread change in the general population, in maybe 10-20 years when all the prudes stop living.
people that don't understand the rights that gays lack must not have tried very hard because they are in plain view to see.
coming out was very important to me. as strange as it might seem, i felt like unless i told some people in my life i had no validity as a person, no one knew me as i knew myself... coming from a small close minded community really sucked. In my highschool of about 750 people there where maybe 3 kids who where "out" i would have loved to be out, why should i hide? oh thats right because tons of people are very not gay friendly. those kids took so much shit and dealt with serious issues because of it, not something you would willing want to subject yourself to.
a little over a year after coming out to my mother and things are great, i moved to a great area of the country and am out to my close friends. i am gay, i don't flaunt it to people but if it comes up/i am asked then i will inform who ever.
to me it should be a non issue unless you are trying to get with someone.
people that don't understand the rights that gays lack must not have tried very hard because they are in plain view to see.
coming out was very important to me. as strange as it might seem, i felt like unless i told some people in my life i had no validity as a person, no one knew me as i knew myself... coming from a small close minded community really sucked. In my highschool of about 750 people there where maybe 3 kids who where "out" i would have loved to be out, why should i hide? oh thats right because tons of people are very not gay friendly. those kids took so much shit and dealt with serious issues because of it, not something you would willing want to subject yourself to.
a little over a year after coming out to my mother and things are great, i moved to a great area of the country and am out to my close friends. i am gay, i don't flaunt it to people but if it comes up/i am asked then i will inform who ever.
to me it should be a non issue unless you are trying to get with someone.
i hate sluts
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2006
- Messages
- 9
Strawberry_lovemuffin said:
well... how quickly we forget...
YOU, CAN MAKE FECETIOUS COMMENTS ABOUT DOMESTIC VIOLENCE, but im being obtuse with my humour ?
but thats getting old isnt it, s.l.m.?
get off the drugs, sweetheart, your losing your fucking insight. as if you had any in the first place.
and for you raz, you might want to explain to s.l.m. the same kind of line you try to feed me, "learn to express your opinion with respect..."
as long as its far left, right ? (hope i didnt confuse you there...)
Helios.
Ex-Bluelighter
I "came out" when I was 19. I'm 30 now. HUGE mistake.
Sexuality is not a black/white, on/off, straight/gay clear-cut issue. It is a continuum.
Some of the most effeminate men I have met are married with large families, while some quiet, muscular, masculine men I've met are homosexual.
So if someone asks you, just say, "I'm not gay, and neither is my boyfriend." Just half-way kidding; that slogan actually sounds like a Don't Panic t-shirt.
Sexuality is not a black/white, on/off, straight/gay clear-cut issue. It is a continuum.
Some of the most effeminate men I have met are married with large families, while some quiet, muscular, masculine men I've met are homosexual.
So if someone asks you, just say, "I'm not gay, and neither is my boyfriend." Just half-way kidding; that slogan actually sounds like a Don't Panic t-shirt.
wesmdow
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2004
- Messages
- 4,016
wow dude, thats very deep! i couldnt agree more!Helios. said:
another reason i think its a bad idea to come out is this continuum you speak of.
if you "come out" at 19, then shiiiiiiiiit what happens if you fall in love with a woman in 30 years? who knows? it COULD be possible because were constantly growing and changing as people....
this is why i think its irrelevant (for the most part) to have to confirm your sexuality to others. sexuality isnt a stagnant part of your personality (in fact, one's entire personality is dynamic, always changing), so to 'lock' yourself into a certain (unfairly inferior) social category just doesnt make sense to me.
wesmdow
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2004
- Messages
- 4,016
another thing about gay rights that i was pondering on.
i dont think gays should have any special rights at all. equal rights, certainly.
...but let me elaborate... what 'rights' do gays not have right now?
...for example, lets say im into the most brutal, whips/chains, evil cruel type sex out there. i mean nasty, bloody, painful (yet still consenting) anal sex. i have a feeling most conservatives would frown on this about as much as homosexuality.
ive still got the right to do it.. tho... same as gays still have the right to have sex & ...well be gay.
what more could be expected? what rights are they missing, exactly?
also, theres no way to PROVE youre gay. you can prove youre black/hispanic/white/etc.... but sexual orientation is so personal that theres no way to be POSITIVE a person isnt lying about their sexuality. (for example if i ever get drafted, im gonna act SOOOOOOOOOOO gay!)
..if special benefits were given to gays because they are a 'minority,' the real problem would come in APPLYING those rights. like i said, theres no way to prove anyone is/isnt gay...
(and i really dont want to be offensive here, so gay guys please dont take this wrong!)
gay relationships are incapable of having children. to me, it seems like it should come with the package, so to speak. if youre gay, you lead a different life than a straight person, obviously. having kids is just not an option biologically.
im not saying, by any means, that 2 gay men (or women) raising a child would affect that childs sexuality.... but i DO think theres something to be said for having both masculine and feminine authority figures in a childs upbringing.
on the plus side, gays dont have to worry about pregnancy..
as far as advertisements go... if somoene were to post a perfume poster over the highway with two men in a sexually explicit pose, it might very well sell to the gay market. BUT, it would offend all the homophobes and bigots (which numerically outnumber gays, like it or not) thereby losing business for the company.
we are surrounded by heterosexual advertisements because THATS what makes money in this day and age.
i dont think gays should have any special rights at all. equal rights, certainly.
...but let me elaborate... what 'rights' do gays not have right now?
...for example, lets say im into the most brutal, whips/chains, evil cruel type sex out there. i mean nasty, bloody, painful (yet still consenting) anal sex. i have a feeling most conservatives would frown on this about as much as homosexuality.
ive still got the right to do it.. tho... same as gays still have the right to have sex & ...well be gay.
what more could be expected? what rights are they missing, exactly?
also, theres no way to PROVE youre gay. you can prove youre black/hispanic/white/etc.... but sexual orientation is so personal that theres no way to be POSITIVE a person isnt lying about their sexuality. (for example if i ever get drafted, im gonna act SOOOOOOOOOOO gay!)
..if special benefits were given to gays because they are a 'minority,' the real problem would come in APPLYING those rights. like i said, theres no way to prove anyone is/isnt gay...
(and i really dont want to be offensive here, so gay guys please dont take this wrong!)
gay relationships are incapable of having children. to me, it seems like it should come with the package, so to speak. if youre gay, you lead a different life than a straight person, obviously. having kids is just not an option biologically.
im not saying, by any means, that 2 gay men (or women) raising a child would affect that childs sexuality.... but i DO think theres something to be said for having both masculine and feminine authority figures in a childs upbringing.
on the plus side, gays dont have to worry about pregnancy..
as far as advertisements go... if somoene were to post a perfume poster over the highway with two men in a sexually explicit pose, it might very well sell to the gay market. BUT, it would offend all the homophobes and bigots (which numerically outnumber gays, like it or not) thereby losing business for the company.
we are surrounded by heterosexual advertisements because THATS what makes money in this day and age.
Gavin83
Bluelighter
wesmdow said:
It's slightly different though isn't it? Although you are technically allowed to be gay, you certainly don't have anywhere near the same rights as a straight couple. All I think gay couples want is the ability to getting married, maybe not in the religious sense which I've already voiced my opinion on but in a factual sense. Why shouldn't they be allowed to? The differences have already been voiced in this thread and to put it quite simply in the eyes of the law your treated more like friends than family.
As for children, it's a touchy issue. Although they can't biologically have kids, neither can a number of straight couples and hense the reason adoption systems exist. What's the difference here? Exactly the same reasoning could be applied to a straight couple who can't have kids for medical reasons as it could to a gay couple. It not my place, your place or anyones place to say who would make the better parents.
For what it's worth I think we'll see a day gay couples are allowed to adopt, but it's a fair way off yet.
wesmdow
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Dec 13, 2004
- Messages
- 4,016
^good points, i hadnt thought of it like that.
my only issue with 2 people of the same sex raising a child is that, like i said, having a masculine/feminine influence on a child from an early age is BOUND to be good for them. its natural, at the very least.
i dont OPPOSE it, tho. just seems healthier for the kid if he has a mom and a dad..
my only issue with 2 people of the same sex raising a child is that, like i said, having a masculine/feminine influence on a child from an early age is BOUND to be good for them. its natural, at the very least.
i dont OPPOSE it, tho. just seems healthier for the kid if he has a mom and a dad..
Gavin83
Bluelighter
You do raise a very good point and in many ways I agree with you. However, since we live in a society where single parents are more common than married couples and a large number of parents simply couldn't be bothered to raise their kids and leave it to teachers, I'm not so sure it matters anymore.
It is a very good point though. I'd like to hear a few other opinions on it as well.
It is a very good point though. I'd like to hear a few other opinions on it as well.
What gay rights are yout talking about???
You mean the right to walk down the street without fear of getting beaten up, or fear of getting fired because of your sexuality, or paying into a system and not getting any benefits for your parner when you die?
Also, how can you say this:
" my only issue with 2 people of the same sex raising a child is that, like i said, having a masculine/feminine influence on a child from an early age is BOUND to be good for them."
when you wrote, this :
"also, im mistaken for gay ALL THE FUCKING TIME. im very effeminate and set off most people's "gaydar." ive been hit on by more men than women in my life."
Since you have femine qualities, perhaps if you or other hetros who have such femine qualities do marry ,you will confue a child?
Or if you meant, division of labour/ work, then I hate to break it to you but that is no longer relevant or true in today's society
Also, to answer your original question.
Hetrosexuality is assumped. A child is assumed he/ she is a hetrosexaul unless they come out.
There many institutions that prop up hetrosexuality and make it seem "normal."
But if hetrosexaulity is "normal", then why does it need help from so many institutions to maintain its hegemony?
So, I hope to see the day when two guys or girls can walk down 5th avenue holding hands and kiss and not everyone turn their heads and stare/ grimace.
We need to "normalize" homosexulity. Not keep it in the closet.
You mean the right to walk down the street without fear of getting beaten up, or fear of getting fired because of your sexuality, or paying into a system and not getting any benefits for your parner when you die?
Also, how can you say this:
" my only issue with 2 people of the same sex raising a child is that, like i said, having a masculine/feminine influence on a child from an early age is BOUND to be good for them."
when you wrote, this :
"also, im mistaken for gay ALL THE FUCKING TIME. im very effeminate and set off most people's "gaydar." ive been hit on by more men than women in my life."
Since you have femine qualities, perhaps if you or other hetros who have such femine qualities do marry ,you will confue a child?
Or if you meant, division of labour/ work, then I hate to break it to you but that is no longer relevant or true in today's society
Also, to answer your original question.
Hetrosexuality is assumped. A child is assumed he/ she is a hetrosexaul unless they come out.
There many institutions that prop up hetrosexuality and make it seem "normal."
But if hetrosexaulity is "normal", then why does it need help from so many institutions to maintain its hegemony?
So, I hope to see the day when two guys or girls can walk down 5th avenue holding hands and kiss and not everyone turn their heads and stare/ grimace.
We need to "normalize" homosexulity. Not keep it in the closet.
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Gavin83
Bluelighter
Ravr said:
Sadly I'm not sure that day will ever come. In the same way that I believe racism will always exist, anti-gay mentalities will always exist. It's just human nature to pick faults in other people and minorities makes that a little too easy.
To change the opinion of one is simple, to change the opinion of a nation is a dream.
^ I'm talking about normalizing homosexaulity not chaning other people's opinions.
For example, at one time in America and most of the world, mixing of the races was considered upnormal. But not today. You will see regulary in many parts of America interracial couples showing effection for each other in public and you won't see people looking at them "weird" or whatever. What I would like to see is that for homosexual couples.
What I would like to see is the opening up of homosexuality and normalizing it.
I'm sure there are people out there in America that would like to spreate the races but that is just their opinions and not how America is shaped. I would like to see is normalization of homosexuality and bring it out from the fringes of society.
For example, at one time in America and most of the world, mixing of the races was considered upnormal. But not today. You will see regulary in many parts of America interracial couples showing effection for each other in public and you won't see people looking at them "weird" or whatever. What I would like to see is that for homosexual couples.
What I would like to see is the opening up of homosexuality and normalizing it.
I'm sure there are people out there in America that would like to spreate the races but that is just their opinions and not how America is shaped. I would like to see is normalization of homosexuality and bring it out from the fringes of society.
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Gavin83
Bluelighter
Fair enough.
However, there are places that I as a white person can't enter without being intimidated and threatened due to my colour. I'm fairly sure the same is true in a reversed role as well. Racism will always exist in some form.
I see what your saying though. On a mass scale, interracial relations are now accepted where as 30 years ago they wouldn't have been. Maybe given time homosexual relations will be accepted but there will always be pockets of people where it remains taboo, and not just the odd person here and there. To be totally honest though it's going to be an awful long time before that takes place.
However, there are places that I as a white person can't enter without being intimidated and threatened due to my colour. I'm fairly sure the same is true in a reversed role as well. Racism will always exist in some form.
I see what your saying though. On a mass scale, interracial relations are now accepted where as 30 years ago they wouldn't have been. Maybe given time homosexual relations will be accepted but there will always be pockets of people where it remains taboo, and not just the odd person here and there. To be totally honest though it's going to be an awful long time before that takes place.
doofqueen
Bluelighter
You know what would be nice? If i could walk down the street holding my girlfriend's hand or give her a quick kiss and not have people staring at us like we are a sideshow. We actually had "LEZO'S" screamed at us the other day (like thats supposed to be insulting anyway?) although i do live in a fairly redneck area so it's expected...
What else would be nice? If her parents didn't think that there was something wrong with her and they did something wrong to prevent her having such a "disgusting" lifestyle.
on the kids thing - my son has known about all sexualities since he was 7 and i had my first gf. Guess what it took for him to understand?
Girls can love girls.
Boys can love boys.
Just like girls and boys like each other.
Simple.
It's amazing how people think this is such a hard concept to understand if a child can get it!
Agree with the posters that say having a masculine/femme role model (one of each) in a childs life is not that important as both genders can be more of one the the other in a straight relationship and also the single parent families come into it aswell....
What else would be nice? If her parents didn't think that there was something wrong with her and they did something wrong to prevent her having such a "disgusting" lifestyle.
on the kids thing - my son has known about all sexualities since he was 7 and i had my first gf. Guess what it took for him to understand?
Girls can love girls.
Boys can love boys.
Just like girls and boys like each other.
Simple.
It's amazing how people think this is such a hard concept to understand if a child can get it!
Agree with the posters that say having a masculine/femme role model (one of each) in a childs life is not that important as both genders can be more of one the the other in a straight relationship and also the single parent families come into it aswell....
MazDan
Bluelight Crew
doofqueen said:
Great post and I so know what you mean about the walking down the street bit........... i am so aware of it that I havent even bothered trying with my man other than at night on quiet walks, its just not worth the hassle.
I have been wondering if there should be a day set aside per year where we publicise that its national or international gays being seen in public day.........not ala Mardi gras but just a day where gays actually get out and hold hands.........nothing more, nothing less...........just not be afraid to hold hands.
Maybe the concept could help people to adjust to the concept so that in a few years time it just becomes the norm and a perfectly acceptable thing.