Why do gay/bi people NEED to come out?

[Kicksave]

sexuality is a socially constructed category. i'm not saying i don't believe in people being in love or in relationships. what i'm saying is that society/culture have delineated people into 'heterosexual,' 'homosexual,' and 'bisexual' but that doesn't mean they are "natural kinds" (naturally occurring.) putting a label on something doesn't make it real though humans are prone to feel that way.

another complicating factor is that i am wary of the black-and-white male/female gender categories. again, i think these are largely socially constructed. thus, if i don't even think that a person really falls neatly into 'male' or 'female,' how could i understand homosexuality (being attracted to the same gender) or heterosexuality, etc.

there isn't one path to love. a lot of people seem to think that love has to start off with sexual attraction but that's not true at all. really good friendships between two people of the same "gender" can often turn into love (if the people are open enough and not intimidated by social stigma.)

I liked this thread better the first time, when it was a movie called "Chasing Amy"

 

[AlexMacktheKnife]

Can I just say, wow has this thread changed from the first couple of posts to now and I don't think in a good way.

From coming out as a positive thing and congratulations to someone who has decided to come out it's twisted into a discussion, which is good, but it's changed the entire tone of the topic; coming out seems completely unnecessary, blatant and this hollow cry for attention now... Maybe the name of the thread should be changed or something?

 

[MazDan]

^^^^^^^ I have to agree with you Alex.

Actually i was wondering if a kind mod would mind maybe seperating those posts that are simply discussing the whys and wherefores of coming out and moving them into there own appropriately named thread.

This was, as I think my original post implies, a thread for people to "come out" to bluelight irrelevant of whether they already had or not.

Possibly with the hope that it would also help those who are finding it all a bit hard as I am to maybe feel a bit better and also I guess as a secondary means of appreciating just how many gay lesbian and bi persons there are on this board.

 

[WildLtn]

I'm on board with Ebola and Raz, in regards to gays and lesbians being pushed into this niche based upon stereotypes.

My peer group has been finding issues with their relationships, and they are heterosexuals. There has been a decay in the traditional ideal of sex, love, and relationships in society. It's broken and where do homosexuals fit in? We don't and that's why it's easy to pick on us.

Fags that fit the stereotypes are obvious. Those men and women that assume the roles that fit into a heterosexual ideal aren't seen as being homosexual until the come out. This thread started with someone having issues with coming out and how NOT to be put into this fag or dyke stereotype.

 

[Raz]

but on the flip side, there are people who are directly in your face about homosexuality in ways that heterosexuals never are.

Really? So there aren't straight men in this world who constantly objectify women, treat them like nothing more than another notch on the bedpost and go on and on about their sexual conquests?

There are no straight men in this world who flaunt their heterosexuality by having a living room full of softcore porn, a bedroom wall plastered in photos of page 3 girls and who prefer to watch action movies over chick flicks because that's what a real man (read:heterosexual man) does?

Don't kid yourself. The only difference is that nobody sees that as "in your face heterosexuality", they see it as just guys being guys. But really, what is it if not an overt and over the top display of sexual orientation?

I'm not saying one is any better than the other...personally, gay guys who dry retch at the idea of a man and woman having sex make me want to punch them in the mouth, because there's nothing gross about any kind of healthy sexual expression.

But it kind of bugs me that annoying gay guys are seen as being annoying gay guys, like it's the gay bit that's annoying...but annoying straight guys are just annoying guys.

When you're part of the majority, anything bad you do is a deviation from that majority. When you're part of a minority, anything bad you do is proof of why that minority is bad in the first place...

 

[Raz]

^^^Ahh yeah, fair call....I guess I pounced too soon, sorry dude.

I think though I have a bit of a knee-jerk reaction when people start talking about people being "in your face homosexual" because those people are generally bigotted assholes who are using that as code for "my god gay people make me vomit". Sorry again if I over-reacted.

 

[SmC]

Not sure if this has been said cause I haven't read the whole thread but the reason is because people automatically assume everyone is straight, and also not everyone is as understanding as you wesmdow. Believe it or not, a lot of people hate on gays, or laugh at them, whatever. So when you find someone who you can come out to and trust its a great relief.

 

[MazDan]

when you find someone who you can come out to and trust its a great relief.

That is ringing very true with me right now.

I so want to share my happiness with someone I know, other than BL, but I just dont think I know anyone that would just be understanding that much.

 

[wesmdow]

i still dont see why it matters if your friends, or anyone with whom its irrelevant, for that matter know about your sexual orientation.

seems to me that presence of so many homophobes, and the disadvantages of being openly gay (prejudice, etc.. raz listed a lot of them) would outweigh any gratification youd get from having your sexuality accepted by your friends/family.

...and can only with such certaintly because i myself REALLY DONT CARE. i think homosexuality is incredibly interesting because i dont understand it.... but IF i was gay, like i said in my original post, i wouldnt even OFFICIALLY tell my family. id just bring a dude home for thanksgiving & let them assume what they would, as it doesnt freakin matter.

i agree very much with DD--it seems very silly to define yourself fisrt/foremost by your sexual orientation. pretty much all the extremes piss me off, from butch lesbians to jock-type frat boys who wont even touch their male friends thru clothing...

and yea im sorry to hi-jack your thread mazdan. dont take it personally please!

 

[Helios.]

Why do straight people NEED to have elaborate, expensive public wedding ceremonies?

B/c it's an important part of their lives perhaps?
B/c they want to share their love with their world (ie community)?
B/c they want to make a public, sexual commitment to ONE other person for all to see?

I am sure there are many reasons other reasons on both sides of this fence, but here's one more: how would you like it if you were heterosexual but everyone thought you were queer when you weren't? In other words, coming out may be a way of straightening things out or at least trying to.

Then again, many things are better left unsaid yet understood. [what wesmdow said]

Unrelated: wesmdow, you'd be surprised what goes on sometimes between toned, jock type frat boys when no one else is watching.

 

[MikecMikec]

uhh dude you spelled precursor wrong

presursor

 

[QuestionEverything]

I think 'coming out' is less about making a formal announcement than it is not feeling the need to hide your relationships from everyone (family, friends, etc.) out of fear.

I have a very close friend that I've known almost my whole life who is gay. We all sort of guessed he was way before he ever admitted it to any of us, even himself. When he 'came out' it wasn't like he sat us down and said, "I'm gay." (but that certainly can be a part of it) It was more about him being able to be open about a part of himself that he'd been scared to be open about before. It's not about talking overtly sexual or sharing his sexual desires with anyone. In general conversation relationships come up constantly - why should he not be honest? Why should he feel the need to lie or be ashamed because someone else can't handle it? It's ok for guys to talk about their girlfriends and vice versa - why shouldn't he?

It's a matter of personal choice. Being gay doesn't rule who he is, it's a part of him though just the same as my being married to a man makes up a part of me.

does that make sense wesmdow?

In short: It's not about announcing to the world over and over and over again that, "I'm gay" - it's about not being afraid anymore. IMO (and that of my friend - we had a long conversation regarding this thread.) Of course there are over the top personalities that take it to the extreme. Like has been said already that is the case with some people no matter what their sexuality.

edit - also just wanted to add that being treated differently based on sexuality is discrimination just the same as being treated differently based on the color of ones skin. Giving in to that (IMO) and letting it keep you from being yourself only feeds the problem - all the more reason to be open and 'come out'

 

[MazDan]

and yea im sorry to hi-jack your thread mazdan. dont take it personally please!

Not at all mate, I have enjoyed the conversation immensely and it is helping me heaps as well.

I do understand where you are coming from as well but have to admit that for me it really does look different once you are actually involved in a gay relationship.

It may well be that like you suggest, i will simply keep it to myself, I really dont know yet and I also have to consider my partner and any possible affect on him when making any decisions.

 

[Psychubus]

It's because society (whether intentionally or not) directs people to conform to heterosexuality as the accepted norm. It's changed in recent years, but if somebody had restrictive and even traumatic experiences regarding freedom of expression, then it certainly explains why people like Jeffree Star come out lol. like, why he gotta be like that?

 

[Gavin83]

Really? So there aren't straight men in this world who constantly objectify women, treat them like nothing more than another notch on the bedpost and go on and on about their sexual conquests?

There are no straight men in this world who flaunt their heterosexuality by having a living room full of softcore porn, a bedroom wall plastered in photos of page 3 girls and who prefer to watch action movies over chick flicks because that's what a real man (read:heterosexual man) does?

Don't kid yourself. The only difference is that nobody sees that as "in your face heterosexuality", they see it as just guys being guys. But really, what is it if not an overt and over the top display of sexual orientation?

I'm not saying one is any better than the other...personally, gay guys who dry retch at the idea of a man and woman having sex make me want to punch them in the mouth, because there's nothing gross about any kind of healthy sexual expression.

But it kind of bugs me that annoying gay guys are seen as being annoying gay guys, like it's the gay bit that's annoying...but annoying straight guys are just annoying guys.

When you're part of the majority, anything bad you do is a deviation from that majority. When you're part of a minority, anything bad you do is proof of why that minority is bad in the first place...

Great post btw. It point's out something I've only just really come to realise recently.

Im a hetrosexual male. For most of my teenage years I had a great (for several years best) friend who was gay. He came out at around 14 to a small group of us and remained fairly normal until 17ish where he had the chance to 'express' himself so to speak and became one of the 'in your face' type of gay people.

Now, I was happy with our friendship and like to think I accepted him for who he was but sadly he wasn't happy with this. Despite the fact he knew my sexuality he made regular advances towards me. Once it started to become apparent I actually wasn't interested he got a little more nasty. He told others I was secretly gay but didn't wish to come out and made up snide stories. Once I entered a hetrosexual relationship he told my girlfriend I was secretly gay and twisted the situation and this eventually became a major factor for our breakup.

As time passed I began to resent him more and more and eventually we parted ways. However, I had the opinion that I didn't really wish to mingle and get to know any gay guy's due to my previous experiences, but a few added years has allowed me to realise just how prejudice I was being. After all, it was him and his personality that made him as vindictive as he was; his sexuality had nothing at all to do with it. Sadly society makes it far to easy to label minority groups and I allowed myself to slip into this trap.

Recently I've entered a group that only ever meet for the purpose of raving. We don't yet meet for just 'random' drinks or the like, but if theres a good rave on in the city, we will attend. They're all a cool bunch of people but I'd say theres one I talk to slightly more than the rest. Now, due to him not conforming to the homosexual stereotype I presumed him to be hetro, but while alone the other day he basically asked me if I was gay and if I was interested. I said I wasn't and this lead to a few hours of the situation being awkward to say the least. I came to realise the whole situation bothered me, not because of the actual situation, but because of the awkward silence afterwards. As it happens it just kinda all fixed itself afterwards and we ended up having a great afternoon out together which Im glad about. I have no problems with his sexuality (to be honest I don't know if he's gay, bi, or bi-curious) but I've come to realise it doesn't actually matter. I like spending time with this guy and I'd like to remain his friend whatever his sexual orientation.

I can't begin to understand what it's like to be placed into a minority but I agree with those who stated that sexuality doesn't matter as such. In certain situations it's required but I believe you can live a healthy life enjoying the company of those you would normally regardless of sexuality. Sexuality is a part of someone, that person isn't a sexuality. There's a big difference between the two and once people can accept that and recognise that people are individuals and placing labels based on experiences isn't healthy the World will become a much more civil and welcoming place to live.

 

[Tokey-tokerson]

Gay people have to come out because if they didn't people would never know them. If you were a black guy that was painted like a white guy and hung around white people all day, you would probably temped to tell them the truth about yourself to see if they actually like you as a person, or just a white person.

People should be able to be proud of themselves in every regard without negativity. Teh gay isn't a new thing, it's been around FOREVER. So why the hell should people still be trying to hide it?

We have a fucking retarded society if gay people are still being discriminated apon. Myself, I wouldn't know, I'm straight.

 

[MazDan]

^^^^^ Interesting post Gavin and highlights what someone said earlier regards not tarring veryone in a group with the same brush just cos one upsets you.

I consider it very "manly" of you to be able to just treat your new mate like any other person..........I mean thats what he is but unfortunately all to many are unable to see that.

bah........^^^^^ meant for post above Tokey...........lol.

 

[wesmdow]

I think 'coming out' is less about making a formal announcement than it is not feeling the need to hide your relationships from everyone (family, friends, etc.) out of fear.

I have a very close friend that I've known almost my whole life who is gay. We all sort of guessed he was way before he ever admitted it to any of us, even himself. When he 'came out' it wasn't like he sat us down and said, "I'm gay." (but that certainly can be a part of it) It was more about him being able to be open about a part of himself that he'd been scared to be open about before. It's not about talking overtly sexual or sharing his sexual desires with anyone. In general conversation relationships come up constantly - why should he not be honest? Why should he feel the need to lie or be ashamed because someone else can't handle it? It's ok for guys to talk about their girlfriends and vice versa - why shouldn't he?

It's a matter of personal choice. Being gay doesn't rule who he is, it's a part of him though just the same as my being married to a man makes up a part of me.

does that make sense wesmdow?

In short: It's not about announcing to the world over and over and over again that, "I'm gay" - it's about not being afraid anymore. IMO (and that of my friend - we had a long conversation regarding this thread.) Of course there are over the top personalities that take it to the extreme. Like has been said already that is the case with some people no matter what their sexuality.

edit - also just wanted to add that being treated differently based on sexuality is discrimination just the same as being treated differently based on the color of ones skin. Giving in to that (IMO) and letting it keep you from being yourself only feeds the problem - all the more reason to be open and 'come out'

you are a very wise person!

yes, that really did help bring things into perspective!

i guess i just have such a hard time understanding because im so liberal and accepting... most people dont react the same way i do towards gays/different races/etc... i just dont care at all, whereas most people do. i kinda get it now, thanks!

 

[wesmdow]

also i think the definition of "coming out" has been pretty vague in this thread.. the way your best friend came out to you, mrs. questioneverything, seems perfectly acceptable and logical to me...

i just dont get like... the public announcement type coming out...?

 

[Chaos Butterfly]

"Coming out" is a remarkably vague term, which covers everything from telling one person, to telling everyone. Hence I can understand your confusion

CB