Misc Why Am I not Experiencing Baclofen Withdrawal Symptoms from Daily Use?

[Thomas29]

I Am Prescribed 80mg of Balcofen Daily And I Am supposed to use 20MG every 4 Hours as needed. But I consume 60MG all at once every single Night before bed to Help Me Sleep I only recently started consuming 40MG And then another 20MG when I finally actually go into My Bed due to the very short Half-Life of Baclofen... I will use 20MG of Baclofen on RARE occasions when I need to use it which I don't to use it during the Day since it makes Me drowsy being on Methadone And Benzos And GABAPentin.


I Read that this Drug can produce similar Withdrawal Symptoms that Benzodiazepines cause And I have been using this Dose once at Night for YEARS now definitely Longer then 3 Years.


I stop all the time Like for Example I got the Stomach Bug one time And I did not take ANY Baclofen for Like 5-8 Days And I felt Like shit when I puked up My Methadone But I never felt shitty from not using the Baclofen And since it has such A Short Half-Life I can only assume the Withdrawal Effects would of been in Full Effect By that time if I was to Experience them?

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

I've always found Baclofen to be somewhat mild and a fairly "friendly" med to part ways with vs say Meprobamate or even it's prodrug relative Carisoprodol. Although what might have more relevance is that when combined with Methadone, Benzos (clonazepam?), Gabapentin and the occasional use of Chloral Hydrate, Baclofen is just a drop in the bucket. I think the dynamic duo of methadone and Benzos alone would coverup any WD you might have from Baclofen, at least at the doses you're using.

 

[Thomas29]

I thought the Benzos I Am using might be covering up any Withdrawal Symptoms Thanks for the input. Except I don't understand how since Baclofen hits GABA-B And Benzos effect GABA-A correct?


I Am curious of anyone else who has Experience with stopping Baclofen?

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

I should probably add that my experience with Baclofen WD was mild, but it def can be severe and is for many. It's possible that it hasn't reached full intensity and is still being veiled behind the other meds.

As far as Benzos helping, you are correct about them acting at different gaba receptors, but I still think in conjunction with the methadone there is enough of a WD mitigating effect to make it seem as though nothing is happening or going to happen. Similar to how Gabapentin can alleviate a decent amount of opioid WD even though it acts on Voltage gated Ca channels and not opioid receptors. If you have the means even a small taper would probably be beneficial, even at this point. IIRC while Phenibut has the highest affinity for VGCC's, it's also active at the Gaba-b site and has some cross tolerance with Baclofen if you have no other options.

 

[Thomas29]

Thanx that is about as much of an explanation I can think of that makes any sense.


But how long EXACTLY does it take for Withdrawal to occur And Peak in it's Effectsafter My last Dose of Baclofen so I can know the Full Extent of it's potential effects when it is Fully out of My System which is quite Quick from what I have Read.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

While there are several factors that can alter the timeline up or down a little, I think this is a reliable figure.

Likely results from loss of chronic inhibitory effect on postsynaptic receptors.

Withdrawal typically occurs 24-48 hours after discontinuation of the drug or a reduction in dose.

Treat baclofen withdrawal with escalating doses of benzodiazepines.

Baclofen has a half life of 3-4 hours, with 85% being renally excreted within 24 hours. Thus symptoms of withdrawal tend to occur rapidly.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1121408/

Even by the 5 half life rule it's only 1 day.

I really think you have nothing to worry about unless you decide to rapidly drop the methadone and clonazepam, which would be putting yourself into poly drug WD.

 

[apocalypse_when]

I should probably add that my experience with Baclofen WD was mild, but it def can be severe and is for many. It's possible that it hasn't reached full intensity and is still being veiled behind the other meds.

As far as Benzos helping, you are correct about them acting at different gaba receptors, but I still think in conjunction with the methadone there is enough of a WD mitigating effect to make it seem as though nothing is happening or going to happen. Similar to how Gabapentin can alleviate a decent amount of opioid WD even though it acts on Voltage gated Ca channels and not opioid receptors. If you have the means even a small taper would probably be beneficial, even at this point. IIRC while Phenibut has the highest affinity for VGCC's, it's also active at the Gaba-b site and has some cross tolerance with Baclofen if you have no other options.

I've also noticed in the past that it can work the other way round in that opiates can mask pregabalin withdrawls fairly effectively. When I got a new prescription for my opiate painkillers years ago I would go mad the first week and overuse them fairly extensively. During this time in would often just forget to take my prescribed pregabalin and would experience little to no withdrawls whereas if i was to abstain from the pregabalin for a week under normal conditions I would definately feel some degree of withdrawls (although I never experienced the horrible pregabalin withdrawls some speak of even then).

I think it's often a case of some drugs just making you forget about withdrawls from a different class of drugs even if they happen to work on different receptors.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

I've also noticed in the past that it can work the other way round in that opiates can mask pregabalin withdrawls fairly effectively. When I got a new prescription for my opiate painkillers years ago I would go mad the first week and overuse them fairly extensively. During this time in would often just forget to take my prescribed pregabalin and would experience little to no withdrawls whereas if i was to abstain from the pregabalin for a week under normal conditions I would definately feel some degree of withdrawls (although I never experienced the horrible pregabalin withdrawls some speak of even then).

I think it's often a case of some drugs just making you forget about withdrawls from a different class of drugs even if they happen to work on different receptors.

I completely agree. I'm guilty of using periods of aggressive opioid use as a tolerance break from sometimes one if not two other classes of drugs. I've had moderate benzo/ gabapentin/ carisoprodol WD just kind of neutralize my opioid intoxication with no real WD symptoms to speak of. Not a safe practice by any means but I can't deny that it happens. Poly sedative WD does strike some fear in me though as I've masked WD's long enough with opioids to encroach into some dangerous territory. Never woken up with a half bitten through tongue or anything but I know I must have been at a fairly high risk.

 

[apocalypse_when]

I completely agree. I'm guilty of using periods of aggressive opioid use as a tolerance break from sometimes one if not two other classes of drugs. I've had moderate benzo/ gabapentin/ carisoprodol WD just kind of neutralize my opioid intoxication with no real WD symptoms to speak of. Not a safe practice by any means but I can't deny that it happens. Poly sedative WD does strike some fear in me though as I've masked WD's long enough with opioids to encroach into some dangerous territory. Never woken up with a half bitten through tongue or anything but I know I must have been at a fairly high risk.

A few years back I was forced to withdraw from all my medication prescribed by the pain clinic at once. This included 180mg methadone tablets, 600mg pregabalin and 10mg diazepam per day. It's safe to say, I encountered a level of hell I didn't even know existed. The anxiety and adrenaline storm that all this produced was enough to almost drive me insane and persisted for months...

Looking back at it now, I don't know how I got through it and don't think I could get through it again. Normally with any kind of withdrawl, just the fact that you know there's an end in sight is enough to get you through it but I honestly thought that it would never end. The only thing I had in terms of comfort meds was some clonidine which while some find helpful, did nothing in this case. I remember being so desperate for dome relief that I tool 300mcg at once and collapsed from the massive drop in BP...

Happy days lol

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

A few years back I was forced to withdraw from all my medication prescribed by the pain clinic at once. This included 180mg methadone tablets, 600mg pregabalin and 10mg diazepam per day. It's safe to say, I encountered a level of hell I didn't even know existed. The anxiety and adrenaline storm that all this produced was enough to almost drive me insane and persisted for months...

Looking back at it now, I don't know how I got through it and don't think I could get through it again. Normally with any kind of withdrawl, just the fact that you know there's an end in sight is enough to get you through it but I honestly thought that it would never end. The only thing I had in terms of comfort meds was some clonidine which while some find helpful, did nothing in this case. I remember being so desperate for dome relief that I tool 300mcg at once and collapsed from the massive drop in BP...

Happy days lol

Gor Blimey! That makes my 1,100mg morphine WD sound like a walk in the park. Esp since methadone WD's build to a crescendo over ten days and then turns into the gift that keeps on giving, with a double helping of glutamate hell from the pregabalin & diazepam.

You're one tough cat to have come back from that sir.

...

 

[apocalypse_when]

Gor Blimey! That makes my 1,100mg morphine WD sound like a walk in the park. Esp since methadone WD's build to a crescendo over ten days and then turns into the gift that keeps on giving, with a double helping of glutamate hell from the pregabalin & diazepam.

You're one tough cat to have come back from that sir.

...

God yeah, methadone withdrawls are really something else. I didn't really feel too bad after the first week or so but they reached their full strength at around 10-14 days (just when normal opiate withdrawls would be grinding to an end). They probably aren't quite as acute as withdrawls from morphine or heroin, I never vomited once for example, but the anxiety and insomnia from the adrenal storm were something else...the GABA withdrawls exacerbating that even further.

To be honest with you, I didn't make it through based solely on some superhuman will power, more the fact that i had been cut off by my doctor and had neither the money or the contacts to purchase drugs on the street. Plus I wanted off and wasn't aware at the time how severe and protracted the withdrawl would be. Everything I'd read stated that methadone withdrawls would last no more than 4 to 6 weeks maximum. This proved to be way off. I was still suffering fairly severe symptoms 5 or 6 months later.

Methadone cold turkey is the worst withdrawl there is in my opinion. Combining it with benzo and gabapentinoid withdrawl and death would be a preferable option for some. I think if a person had some underlying mental health problems and a predisposition towards self harm and suicidal thoughts, they could well end up taking their own life rather than go through that never ending nightmare

 

[gmz34]

I've always found Baclofen to be somewhat mild and a fairly "friendly" med to part ways with vs say Meprobamate or even it's prodrug relative Carisoprodol. Although what might have more relevance is that when combined with Methadone, Benzos (clonazepam?), Gabapentin and the occasional use of Chloral Hydrate, Baclofen is just a drop in the bucket. I think the dynamic duo of methadone and Benzos alone would coverup any WD you might have from Baclofen, at least at the doses you're using.

how is backlofen when is compared to gabapentin

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

how is backlofen when is compared to gabapentin

Sorry I don't quite understand your question. I guess I'm still reeling from Apocalypse_When's post but I'll try to get back on topic.

Baclofen while structurally similar to Gabapentin is a different animal. Baclofen effects the modulation of GABA-B receptors as it's main MOA or mechanism of action. It has a somewhat subtle anti-spasmodic effect but when dependence occurs it can have a moderate WD syndrome (if not masked by other GABA/ opiod meds). It's not considered to have much abuse potential vs some other muscle relaxants or say GHB. It's similar to Phenibut in structure and effects.

Gabapentin's MOA resides almost entirely with VDCC or voltage dependant/gated calcium channels and downstream activity from there to influence GABA vs directly at the receptor. It's effects are also subtle and have a glacial or very slow onset.
While some have rough WD's with moderate to heavy dependence, others have almost none.

I'm not sure if that answers your question but it's a brief comparison of the two.

 

[gmz34]

thanks

 

[Thomas29]

I Am trying to lower My Dose of Benzos right now I have read that Baclofen alone can increase the chances of Seizures And I keep getting eye twitches right now And I can't help but wonder if I Am Withdrawing from the Baclofen And the Benzodiazepines both at the exact same time now that I Am not taking My normal maintenance Dose of Benzos.

 

[swilow]

^Honestly, I would suggest you avoid benzo and baclofen withdrawal simulataneously. Even if it is mild withdrawal, there will be some sort of synergism between the two which may result in something more serious. Seizures do tend to manifest if you go cold-turkey from highish doses or long-term use, though it can certainly happen if you taper too abruptly. For me, the seizure variable is one of the most troubling of these drugs; I've never been able to tell when it will happen. I have epilepsy, and experienced a huge increase in seizures whilst actually taking a daily high dose pregabalin and benzos; the withdrawal from pregabalin has always 'settled' my symptoms down which is totally counter intuitive.

The GABA system is exquisitely vulnerable and your body will simply downregulate viciously- it does not believe in exogenous GABA ligands and fights you all the way. The only safe way to do this would be focusing on one GABAergic at a time, and very slowly weaning yourself off it. There is a risk of extended withdrawal from too rapid a reduction, and honestly, the acute effects of withdrawal from any of these drugs is extremely traumatic. Its the sort of traumatic experidnce that leads people to GABAergics as medication in the first place.

Be cautious and take your time- there is no rush with this, right?

 

[kinkyjohn]

A few years back I was forced to withdraw from all my medication prescribed by the pain clinic at once. This included 180mg methadone tablets, 600mg pregabalin and 10mg diazepam per day. It's safe to say, I encountered a level of hell I didn't even know existed. The anxiety and adrenaline storm that all this produced was enough to almost drive me insane and persisted for months...

Looking back at it now, I don't know how I got through it and don't think I could get through it again. Normally with any kind of withdrawl, just the fact that you know there's an end in sight is enough to get you through it but I honestly thought that it would never end. The only thing I had in terms of comfort meds was some clonidine which while some find helpful, did nothing in this case. I remember being so desperate for dome relief that I tool 300mcg at once and collapsed from the massive drop in BP...

Happy days lol

Wow .. I've gone turkey off a 6 month fent habit at the end of which I was doing 2mg lines of the stuff by eye ... and I've gotta hand it to you my WDs were "walk it off," grade compared to that. Probably worse at their peak, but that was like 3 days and I was completely delirious for most of it .. plus then I got some bupe.

As to Baclofen it's quite possible the OP isn't having withdrawals because of the pattern of use and the fact it's so short lived means it's not consistently at a high level in their body. I found with Baclofen WD I was getting it in the morning. It was a great warning signal to stop. My WDs were really mild (metallic taste / some mild nerve twinges ... seriously mild!).

I'd second being super careful of the benzo WD. Overall .. I'm a great believer in the short lived benzo's as you get that warning and I may do fent WD ... but I'm scared ***** of benzo withdrawal. I never take anything with a longer half life than xanax.

 

[Thomas29]

^Thank You for the Response kinkyjohn At what Dose of Baclofen Withdrawal And frequency of Dosing are you referring to as causing "Mild" symptoms? BTW A bit off topic which I want to avoid And I need to limit what I type out since it is people seem to assume random LITERALLY just No relevance to My Post Replies which I will stop typing now before someone decides not to read this post from being to long or some.


And swillow
I Am not withdrawing from baclofen, I did not mention that anywhere in My post I am LOWERING MY DOSE OF benzos that is all And I only take 60MG of Baclofen once at night I Am thinking I should maybe take A 10-20MG Dose during the Day while Lowering My Benzo Dosage But I don't know if the eye spasm is just the usual normal Benzo withdrawal Or A combination of the Baclofen wearing off from the night before causing excess in symptoms And severity.

The problem with taking more Baclofen because of the eye spasm especially if it is caused by Benzo Withdrawal is that Baclofen ALONE by taking the SUBSTANCE IT CAN CAUSE SEIZURES you can Google about mainly Alcoholics in Withdrawal having Seizures when taking the Drug Baclofen at the same time.


So bottom line is taking Baclofen will Increase My chances of A Seizure.

 

[Jekyl Anhydride]

And swillow
I Am not withdrawing from baclofen, I did not mention that anywhere in My post

And I can't help but wonder if I Am Withdrawing from the Baclofen

The problem with taking more Baclofen because of the eye spasm especially if it is caused by Benzo Withdrawal is that Baclofen ALONE by taking the SUBSTANCE IT CAN CAUSE SEIZURES you can Google about mainly Alcoholics in Withdrawal having Seizures when taking the Drug Baclofen at the same time.

So bottom line is taking Baclofen will Increase My chances of A Seizure.

Alcoholics having seizures are doing so from EtOH WD and not using Enough Baclofen to compensate for the glutamatergic spike.

In 12 patients with a history of epilepsy, baclofen was given in the conventional dosage range. In the six patients with anticonvulsant-controlled seizures, none had a seizure during baclofen therapy.

Baclofen does not appear to have a deleterious effect in patients with epilepsy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6848083

______________________
Off topic:
The Benzo MegaTable has been corrected to reflect the proper enzymes that mediate Clonazepam metabolism. CYP3A4 and N-acetyl transferase 2 (NAT2) as the phase II metabolic enzyme responsible for 7‐acetamido clonzepam (7‐ACT)

apologies for the confusion T.29

 

[Keif' Richards]

I actually think the answer to this one is as simple as the fact that Baclofen doesn't really seem to produce a severe withdrawal syndrome.