which substances are Neurotoxic?

[satricion]

^^
Aside from the danger of becoming addicted, I would.

But I would never encourage anyone to do heroin, and I'd encourage people to smoke weed.

 

[OnAndOffDruggie]

^^
Aside from the danger of becoming addicted, I would.

But I would never encourage anyone to do heroin, and I'd encourage people to smoke weed.

Dude, no sources are needed, no nothing is needed...

You seriously think using herion once a month is safer/healther than using Marijuana once a month?

I mean, ok, with the addiction issue put asside I'll see how you can argue doing Hydrocodeine once a month is "safer/healther" than weed once a month...


But I just cannot believe you seriously think doing Herion once a month is safer/healther than doing weed once a month...elaborate if you can...

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

I'm not sure that's fair...if it really was up to the individual how much they use substances would we have so many long term heroin addicts?

I don't think that you read my statement how it was intended to be read. I'm mentioning that opiates would be just about the safest drug if you exclude addiction.

 

[satricion]

Dude, no sources are needed, no nothing is needed...

You seriously think using herion once a month is safer/healther than using Marijuana once a month?

I mean, ok, with the addiction issue put asside I'll see how you can argue doing Hydrocodeine once a month is "safer/healther" than weed once a month...


But I just cannot believe you seriously think doing Herion once a month is safer/healther than doing weed once a month...elaborate if you can...

I'm not sure what more I can say that I haven't already said...

Heroin is metabolised to morphine once it's inside you, and that's what gets you high...when you're high on heroin, you're actually high on morphine. But WHICH opiate it is is pretty much irrelevant, all of the major recreational opiates (morphine, heroin, oxycodone, hydrocodone) have less damaging side effects associated with them, aside from addiction.

They simply will not bring on latent psychological disorders like weed will. They simply will not affect your short term memory and cognitive ability like weed will.

To be fair though, there is one thing that this discussion has left out, and that is risk of overdose. You can't overdose on weed, but you can overdose and die on opioids. I fully accept this. But people who die from opioid overdoses don't die because the drug reaches a toxic level in their body and causes their brain to melt or something. They die because they stop breathing.

But if you leave overdosing and addiction out, opiates are softer on the body and the brain than weed, easily. Heroin might be a 'demon drug', and it's not a drug which my experience would lead me to recommend people to try, but it's easier on the brain than cannabis, no doubt about it. The risks of heroin use are addiction and (mostly if you start using needles) overdosing.

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

Its hard to explain this to people, especially pot heads. Its not that they are ignorant per say, just naive. They just refuse to believe it because when they think "opiates/opioids", the first thing that comes to mind is addicion, needles, overdoses, and homeless people snatching purses for a fix. However, that has nothing to do with how "safe" opiates/opioids are to your body. Long term, moderate usage of opiates/opioids are not linked to any physical or mental problems.

 

[StagnantReaction]

Opiates have been used since the dawn of man. I'm not saying that the refined heroin in large doses has been used, but the opiate cocktail within the poppy has been used medicinally and recreationally with no destructive qualities. Same with the coca leaf, the pot plant..

It's only when you start to extract things and concentrate them do you start getting in fist fights with god..

 

[OnAndOffDruggie]

They simply will not bring on latent psychological disorders like weed will. They simply will not affect your short term memory and cognitive ability like weed will.

Most studies say that short term memory and cognitive "disabilities" are short-term marijuana problems; memory and cognitive abilities return to normal are you stop your use...


I dunno; I guess in "theory" their similar in their "badness" but those addiction and overdose factors...mainly addiction factors....

Eh; Drugs are bad mkay...lol

 

[OnAndOffDruggie]

Its hard to explain this to people, especially pot heads. Its not that they are ignorant per say, just naive. They just refuse to believe it because when they think "opiates/opioids", the first thing that comes to mind is addicion, needles, overdoses, and homeless people snatching purses for a fix. However, that has nothing to do with how "safe" opiates/opioids are to your body. Long term, moderate usage of opiates/opioids are not linked to any physical or mental problems.

I'm not a pothead...I used to be an insane pothead and weed has damaged me beyond belief and even after 2 or so months of staying clean it still has its negative effects on me...(damn I sound like I am argueing against myself)...

But if I used any opiate as hardcore as I was weed for the last 3 years I wouldn't be here talking to you...

Eh, Guess their both safe but most people get addicted...

I definitely don't associate herion and opioid use with homeless people snatching purses or needles or anything...(well maybe needles)...but I agree it has a bad stigma attached to it...

Most many people do end up getting addicted to herion...and it definitely ruined more lives than weed ever did...

 

[VelocideX]

^^ Surprisingly, most of the research shows that most people DON'T get addicted to heroin if they don't inject.

 

[satricion]

^^
Personal experience means that I don't find this comment surprising at all...but do you have any links to any research papers I could take a look at about it? Even just the abstract would do, but I'm a uni student with access to most major journals of pretty much any relevant field and would love to read some concrete research about this, as I've found it very difficult to find.

Thanks in advance!

 

[soundphaRm]

This is something that most medical professionals/educated addicts already know, but here is a little something from Dr. Alexander DeLuca (pain specialist), regarding opiates relatively benign status (when it comes to causing organ/bodily damage):

"A few patients experience myoclonus with opioid use. If discomforting, the condition can be treated with a benzodiazepine. Clonazepam is a good choice, because it is less sedating than other drugs in the same class. Opioids can sometimes cause urinary retention and increased bladder capacity due to increased sphincter tone. With high doses, peripheral edema may also occur as a result of antidiuretic hormone release, in which case a short course of diuretics is usually effective. **There is no evidence of any organ toxicity attributable to the prolonged use of opioids.**

The one common persistent side effect of opioid use is constipation, which is mediated by opioid receptors in the bowel. More than half of patients on sustained-release opioids experience constipation requiring specific therapy. It is important to get patients on a good bowel regimen as soon as possible and to teach them to adjust their bowel medications as needed. Many patients start out with a stool softener (e.g., docusate) and a mild fiber-based cathartic (e.g., senna). Osmotic laxatives such as milk of magnesia, polyethylene glycol, magnesium citrate, or lactulose will probably also be needed and may as well be started early. In contrast to stimulant laxatives, osmotic diuretics are safe and non-habit-forming. Patients have to find the dose that they can safely take nightly to produce a firm stool in the morning. Persistent constipation can be a serious problem requiring emergency treatment. I tell my patients to let me know if they have not had a bowel movement for at least three days. At that point, oral magnesium citrate or a sodium phosphate enema may be indicated...."

Although this is widely known in the medical community, a lot of recreational users (a lot- but by no means all) don't realize how safe (compared to other drugs) opiates/opioids are. Every drug has certain (side) effects on bodily processes/systems. Some drugs are much worse than others, of course.
But, constipation, urinary retention and the like are quite minor (and easily treated) side effects, in comparison to medications that can (and do) cause much worse things to happen to your body. Addiction issues are a whole different ball game, but even addiction in and of itself is not something that I (or most other medical professionals) would consider "toxic"...Maybe some of the things one would do, due to addiction, could be quite bad for you...but the addiction itself is not physiologically toxic (psychologically- sure; physically- no).

Just in case you didn't feel like reading all of that, the meat of the matter comes down to..."There is no evidence of any organ toxicity attributable to the prolonged use of opioids."

 

[Synapse999]

As i think i said in my last reply here in november.
This is a concept that can and will go on for years!!!

New studies,books,articles,theories......"possible" facts to make another fact not possible..and vice-versa.

Neurotoxity and effects of random drugs has simply turned into a market for most of these people i swear. Just as long as they can keep people wondering, thinking, wanting to know "the truth". then every media-type and book selling company makes money.


The brain is so complex, each person's arguement in some way is probably accurate and true. While the end result..........depending on the variable used in testing and such. usually small-short term studies.


Hell, on my dexedrine it still says "safe when taking as directed"
"however, there has not been any studies on the long-term effects of this drug" - please monitor changes etc. etc.


So many ways of making a drug out to look......
Unless some high power in GOV demands to know what is what.
There is always room for arguement.


Alot of money to be made, for people in the medical field..to start non-profit companies based on accepting grants and donations to perform trials and studies on all sorts of shit.. for the sake of questioning the effectiveness or safety of a drug.

These studies being small,quick, easy, and behind the scenes "extrememly unaccurate results due to focous group"

But.......a small 20 person quick study...can be blown up into a badass article on cnn.com. - get the name out.
Get the grants for more studies.



Either way, i do enjoy reading this back and forth. Alot of good arguements.


Makes me wanna go get a brain SPECT scan or something.

 

[blase deviant]

Hmmm... I'd be interested in the level of damage done by PEAs (non-amphetamine ones, 2c-x), either by free-radicals, or by any other means, in comparison to other drugs.

I've been mushmouthed lately, mixing up words in sentences, saying words wrong, just... I dunno.

I'm on piracetam too.

 

[tadfish]

hey dimitri9 i never heard of valium and like preventing damage? where you get this info from? know valium can stop a bad acid trip personally. but valium and dxm?
kalt_kalt benzos do effect short term memory and long term effects sleeping big time! explain that
also info on benzos is mostly from pharm companys and there for bullshit

 

[qwe]

* GHB - the only 'drug' which is not only non neurotoxic, but actually neuro-protective (few studies show it, I can post them here if anyone wants). Some people consider it even one of the best anti-aging medicines of all time (it has many health benefits, apart from neuro-protection)

the nonneurotoxic alcohol is illegal

anyone have any more info on health benefits of ghb?

 

[BilZ0r]

Alcohol in the right setting is neuroprotective too.

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

Describe some of those settings

 

[qwe]

how about tramadol? i enjoy this substance very much (despite its reputation here) i know most opioids aren't neurotoxic but i've never read anything about tramadol

 

[K'dOUTinAZ]

Tramadol can cause neurotoxicity (seizures) in quantities just five times the usual dose.

 

[Cronic King]

Is methylphenidate (ritalin) neurotoxic? I couldn't find any info on this...