Which Magnesium supp. prevents Amphetamine tolerance?

[Legerity]

The last time I went to the health food store I was looking for one of the chelated ones because I thought it was supposed to be better absorbed. The guy suggested instead getting Citrate which was much cheaper and that the bioavailability was not "much" lower. I find conflicting information online so I don't really know what source to listen to. I've been using 150mg 2-3 times a day usually.

Have not noticed it helping at all with jaw clenching so I'm considering switching to a different kind to see if it helps. I guess I would need more time to know whether or not it has been effective for tolerance.

 

[verso]

The last time I went to the health food store I was looking for one of the chelated ones because I thought it was supposed to be better absorbed. The guy suggested instead getting Citrate which was much cheaper and that the bioavailability was not "much" lower. I find conflicting information online so I don't really know what source to listen to.

Yeah, to be honest, I am not entirely sure how much better chelated magnesium absorbs exactly, but I imagine it's not too much better than the other magnesiums. I thought I would give it a try, though, just in case.

 

[ferinox]

Magnesium citrate is available in a saline laxative solution at any pharmacy. It's bio availability is 40% compared to magnesium oxide which 4%. 1 ounce is equivalent to 290 mg elemental magnesium. It's always in that ratio. 1 ounce wouldn't be enough to have a laxative effect.

Alternatively you could buy epsom salts, make a solution and apply with a washcloth or take a bath with the salts added. It absorbs transdermally but it would have to be done on a regular basis.

Magnesium glycinate is your best bet orally but you would probably have to order it online. I've heard magnesium taurinate isn't that good on other forums.

I'm in a rush right now so I'll add details to this post later.

Edit: There's quite a bit of studies on magnesium preventing tolerance but it's not a magic bullet. From my personal experience it prevents tolerance from building extremely fast and the withdrawal isn't quite as bad. Your best bet is to quit for a while, get your tolerance lower while supplementing magnesium and then start using the drug again. I know that's easier said than done though.

Here's a study on magnesium bioavailability: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14596323. Magnesium citrate raises serum levels most effectively but most people find the glycinate chelate to be easiest on the digestive system. They sell "magnesium oil" online which is a magnesium chloride in a water solution, it's easy to apply and absorbs through your skin. Epsom salts are magnesium sulfate which you can make your own solution with. I can't give you exact ratios, I just go for very concentrated. Shoot for at least 600 mg of elemental mg daily taken in 3 divided does.

As far as tolerance prevention, you also want to take zinc. Zinc also inhibits NMDA receptors. Almost any form of zinc will do. I just use zinc sulfate.

Magnesium and zinc have antidepressant potential as well. Happier people take less drugs so that might unexpectedly help your tolerance. for a fascinating read on that subject:http://media.axon.es/pdf/81119_1.pdf.

One last thing to check out another thread on bluelight compiling NMDA antagonist studies including ones on magnesium and drug tolerance:http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/...lection-of-the-evidence-and-anecdotal-reports

 

[verso]

You've just blown my mind, ferinox....

 

[ferinox]

^ thanks!

I've been checking this out for two days... can somebody just give a simple answer to the original question??? Assuming we "believe" magnesium will help curb tolerance and make it absorb "for better effects"..... What mg of magnesium (oxide) should be taken and how long before the dose of adderall? And does it make a difference to wait after taking the mag... That's all I want to know. The chemical jargon doesn't make sense to me... and I'm only testing it anyway.

No additional information or opinions needed please...

I didn't see much chemical jargon. You say you've been checking this thread for 2 days but the last post before yours was in 2009. It doesn't matter when you take it and magnesium oxide is complete shit anyway.

 

[TheAzo]

In terms of practical use, I think the idea is for one to take a magnesium supplement daily if you're taking amphetamine (or opiates, or benzos - apparently it works on all of those). The effect of magnesium is small, though. Works through the same mechanism as NMDA antagonists, only it's less effective, and free from the sideffects that those drugs might incur (and in fact is beneficial anyway, since most people are Mg deficient). I havn't seen any concrete recommendations on dose.



Can someone explain the BA of Mg supplements to me?

Magnesium citrate - claimed BA of 40%
Magnesium oxide - claimed BA of 4%

Magnesium oxide reacts with acids to form other magnesium salts (in fact, they use it as an antacid). You eat MgO, it gets to the stomach, and now you have a stomach that is less acidic and which contains MgCl2 in solution as Mg ++ and Cl - ions.

Magnesium citrate is water soluble, and so when you've got that in solution, it's Mg ++, and citrate ions. Citric acid is a weak acid, and so in the stomach, most citrate will be present as citric acid, not citrate ions (with the citrate ions taking an H+ and becoming dissolved citric acid). So again, we've got Mg++ and Cl- ions in solution, plus mostly undissociated citric acid.

If I were to take magnesium oxide with orange juice, which contains citric acid, I would have Mg++, Cl- and citric acid in my stomach. This should be equivilent to (and much cheaper than) magnesium citrate laxative (a bottle of 100 magnesium oxide pills at 500mg each is about 5 bucks, vs $2-3 per bottle of magnesium citrate saline laxative.

Can anyone tell me what the flaw in this reasoning is?

The bizzarely low BA of magnesium supplements doesn't really make much sense.

 

[ferinox]

I'm just going by the preponderance of studies that indicate that magnesium oxide is absorbed more poorly than other forms. Magnesium citrate is harder to find than the magnesium oxide supplement so I only suggested the laxative solution if people didn't have other options. Magnesium citrate is also quite inexpensive if you buy it in supplement form. It can easily be found online for a good price. Here the study I gleaned the 4% figure from:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11794633 I really not sure about the science behind the bioavailability.

Check this study out:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2407766. I'm not advanced enough to interpret it but maybe you can theazo.

I'll try to dig up the study I saw the 40% figure in as well for magnesium citrate.Even if you could just drink orange juice and take magnesium oxide, I'll stick to buying the citrate supplement for marginally more money. I buy my mg citrate supp. for $8 250 tabs 200 mg each. The orange juice would probably cost more money anyway.

 

[Korn3x]

lot of good reads here.

from what i read the cheleated form is the best, as you don't have to take as much, and people seemed to notice pretty good results on other forums. i use some cheap magnesium oxide though and take 250-500mg a night before i go to bed (i figure some magnesium is better than none). when this runs out i'll try the cheleated form and see if i notice a huge difference or not.

 

[Drummingasm]

TheAzo:
Stomach acid ph is 1.5-3.5, and oj is 3.5 according to wikipedia. Since that's 100x difference in stomach acid ph im going to assume ph is close to 1.5 when digesting something. That means the hcl in your stomach is probably at least 50x more powerful that the oj you drink. I would think if you crush and take your MgO with a giant glass of oj it would dissolve some of it before it got to your stomach.
The BA of oxide is due to the react of the oxygen in MgO with H+ (in HC stomach acid) which releases the Mg2+. The BA in citrate is due to it being straight up soluble in water.

Anyways i'm wondering if there's a way to increase the the BA of MgO significantly to affect the amphetamine tolerance. I figure eating fatty foods (and other things that up acid production) would make the MgO more soluble. Would this make a noticeable impact?

That reason im asking is because i bought went to the store to buy some citrate but they were out so i got some oxide. I figured the difference was a matter of degrees. Also i got a good deal (8$ for 600 250mg). But i found out citrate absorbs about 6x as much as oxide per mg (according to http://www.longecity.org/forum/topic/16932-bioavailability-elemental-of-magnesium-types/)

Is there other ways to up the bio? It seems like such a waste at 4% bottleneck.

 

[awdcivic]

Sorry to resurect an old thread but i found this crap on google.
I have ADD and am prescribed vyvanse, and ive researched the hell out of stuff as well as had first hand experience.
do NOT take dxm before your stimulant use, it will block the stimulant (i took 70 mg vyvanse and 60mg dxm and vyvanse was blocked out over 90% i could feel it was there sometimes but hardly at all, normally 70 would take all my add away.) and what is the point of that? yes i did it because this thread told me to, i just felt funny all day but it definately didnt help with my add. but then researched a bunch more.
You can research nmda receptor antagonists if you want but basically adderall is a agonist and magnesium or dxm is an antagonist. the antagonist blocks the agonist from working fully (with dxm almost completely). magnesium not so much because it is a weaker antagonist.
i wouldnt take magnesium at the same time as the stimulants either but the weak magnesium oxide are ok when your on stims i have personally used that take one about every 3 hours and it extends my medicine but also weakens it by about 20%. i would say chelated would be too much antagonism.

take the magnesium (i reccomend 400-600 mg of cheleated magnesium, 800-1000mg is sufficient for a daily meth user) before you go to bed because if your stimulant is still in effect that level of magnesium will make it "turn off" also you dont need dxm every freaking night, it is a very strong nmda antagonist i would recommend no more than once a week, dont go over 2 times a week but seriously its not needed that often the magnesium will work. i am going to take 60mg of dxm only every 2 weeks to a month havent decided yet. Also l phenylalanine is a glycine antagonist which will prevent stimulants working fully, id suggest taking that at bed too if you do take it.

My supplements are as follows 7 days a week unless otherwise noted:
morning omega 3-6-9
vyvanse (4 days a week, when in school)
L theanine (days i dont take vyvanse)
lunch and dinner omega 3-6-9
bedtime
magnesium chleated (doctors choice brand)
dxm 60mg (once every 2 weeks to a month)
DL - phenylalanine
L - Tyrosine
Vitamin B complex
Vitamin C
Vitamin D
Calcium Magnesium Zinc (for the zinc magnesium oxide has horrible bioavailability)
Multi Vitamin

If you ever need your stimulants to stop for some reason? take 60-100mg of dxm and i guarantee you wont be stimulated anymore when it kicks in.

 

[onetwo]

Do amphetamines cause a sore set of gums, perhaps sore jaws? I don't think I had any teeth grinding last night but I woke up with gums that hurt and I have good dental hygeine.
If so, would magnesium help?
I'm going to start taking mag. anyway.

You either were teeth grinding or had some sort of hypertention in your sleep.

 

[dondong]

This is an interesting thread. From what I've heard, not tested yet, magnesium INDUCES sleep. I bought some for my mother, just for that purpose. Anyway, "awd", I'm glad those supplements are helping you. For everyone else, be careful if you're taking D-phenylalanine & L-tyrosine, and your ADD meds. I took both for a few days, then suffered my first, and last migraine headache because of that. I'd never experienced such head pain before, and it was constant. On the 4th. day(!), I was in so much pain it woke me out of a sound sleep. I took 4 ibuprofen, and luckily it ceased, finally, a few hours later.

People have such individual reactions to things, you gotta be cautious.

Regarding the tolerance to stimulants, I've noticed something that helped me. When I'm near the end of my monthly supply, and I know I'm gonna run low, I'm take a smaller dose to make it last. I have tolerance probs like everyone else, I guess. I normally take 25-30 mg generic methylphenidate per dose. Which was fine. Anymore than 30mg does the opposite & makes me tired. Anyway, I moved so I had to find a new doctor -- so much fun. The doctor I started seeing was a dick, of course, and would only give me 60mg/day. But he'd give me a 60 day 'script, so, I'd make an appointment with him every 4-5 weeks, so as to get my normal amount.

Anyway, I'd take a smaller dose when running low, and it was funny to me how my body would react well to the smaller amount, after a day or so. Because of that, I'm now able to take just 15mg/dose, and feel the positive effects. Cool, huh?!

 

[tricomb]

^

1) Is magnesium supposed to help prevent methylphenidate tolerance?
2) What do you mean by "be careful" taking D-Phenylalanine with ADD medications like methamphetamine? How were you careful? Did you stop taking The D-PA? Or.... I'm just wondering what I should do to actually take some sort of precaution as I was intending on trying out D-Phenylalanine but have heard reports of it having possible interactions with amphetamine based ADD meds.
3) To answer the question in this thread title, the best form of magnesium I've found is Chelated Mg.

 

[i are spectre]

i think magnesium supplements just help maintain ATP levels.

 

[Ksa]

I've been checking this out for two days... can somebody just give a simple answer to the original question??? Assuming we "believe" magnesium will help curb tolerance and make it absorb "for better effects"..... What mg of magnesium (oxide) should be taken and how long before the dose of adderall? And does it make a difference to wait after taking the mag... That's all I want to know. The chemical jargon doesn't make sense to me... and I'm only testing it anyway.

No additional information or opinions needed please...

If you don't understand that jargon you don't even qualify to mix those chemicals in a beaker, much less try them on your own body.

 

[AlphaMethylPhenyl]

take chelated