Misc Which is Safest Long Term: Remeron, Ambien, or Secobarbital?

[TheSacredTree]

So... As the title says, i was prescribed (or should i say self-prescribed) Remeron in the middle of last year after asking the doctor if we can try it out because i refused to take any SSRI's and that's all he seemed to want to prescribe. For the first couple months, the 15mg he prescribed worked well for both my insomnia and depression but around the 4th month it stopped working all-together so we upped it to 30mg and didn't even notice a difference, still no effect. The alarming part happenned last week however when i forgot to take the remeron for a couple days while away from home. By the time i was supossed to take it on the third day, i had the worst anxiety ever. It felt like i was having a panic attack for an entire hour, my head felt like it was being clamped in a vice grip, i was having muscle cramps all over, and it basically just felt like i was having a super intense come down but with more physical pain. It lasted until i took that night's pill and then i immediately felt normal again. Needless to say, this scared me quite a bit and i think i may have my first addiction.


What i'm wondering though is, how is Ambien? I feel like it might put me to sleep much easier than the Remeron did anyways and much quicker too. But how addictive is it? Do you think the withdrawals would be much worse with the ambien than they will be with the remeron? And which is generally considered safer for long-term insomnia treatment? Also, does Ambien produce the same super vivid dreams that Remeon does? I love those dreams, it's like a bunch of movies in my head and i can remember them for months down the line. Even the nightmares which actually end up being cool in retrospect. I don't really even need the anti-depressant anymore because it turns out that was just coming from high blood sugar and severe anxiety and i take Klonopin for that now (which i'm thinking will help with the Remeron withdrawals as well).


Or should i quit with the remeron and klonopin and try for Secobarbital instead? Or is that MUCH more dangerous since it's a Barbiturate? I don't abuse any of my medications if that's important information though.


Any help would be appreciated.

 

[Burnt Offerings]

Ambien is pretty good (IME) at putting people to sleep. Whether they stay asleep is another question, although there is also an Ambien CR formulation.

It's somewhat habit forming with some minimal recreational potential but IMO it's not terribly addictive.

I'd be very surprised if Seconal were prescribed...from what I understand it's a very expensive and rarely prescribed medication, and most pharmacies have to put in a special order for it

 

[FIR3man]

Try asking you doc for 100mg trazadone and 1mg melatonin a night. Trazadone is an antidepressant ( not an SSRI, i think it's tricyclic or tetracylcic) someone correct me if I'm wrong.
It works great, the reason i said melatonin also is because for many people it can induce the vivid dreams that you said you love.
Requires minimal dose adjusting or raising as you go on with treatment.
The best of all it it's not addictive.
Of course it could be habit forming but so can potato chips and/or meatballs. lol.

 

[Smoky]

Good point about the Trazadone. It's older but works for some. I had very vivid dreams on it myself.

Of course ask your doctor, but if you have to choose between the 3 the safest imo/e is Remeron, and the least addictive.

Some folks actually become dependent on Ambien, and have problems ceasing use.

 

[olypen]

I second trazodone suggestion. Trazodone made me feel like a zombie the next morning, but knocked me out cold. It also didn't leave me nearly as snowed into the next day as Remeron, so if you can already handle that go with Trazodone.

 

[Keif' Richards]

It's hard to say based upon differences in each person's physiology etc. but Remeron (mirtazapine) is going to be the safest medication to use for long periods of time. At least one would think. It's an antidepressant, essentially. Keep in mind Zolpidem is a "z-drug" sleep-aid with similar effects to benzodiazepines and being in that same vein, it can be habit-forming. Secobarbital, on the other hand is a potent, short-acting, barbiturate. It will knock you out, keep you out for a reasonable period, leave you with a potential hangover etc., but barbiturates are notoriously recreational and dependence-inducing. You can probably assume by your own reasoning that barbiturates, especially the more potent ones, aren't safe, relatively speaking which is why you hardly ever see them on the market anymore.

I'm a wiry-thin 145lb guy. I started taking mirtazapine maybe 9 months ago at the suggestion of my doctor for depression/insomnia. It worked great on the sleep end (save for vivid dreams) but gave me such a voracious appetite that I gained 30lbs in just 3 months. I quit taking it 3 months ago and I'm just now getting back to my normal weight, still a few pounds to go.

 

[TheSacredTree]

Oh, i may be an insomniac, but when i do fall asleep, i'm ASLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPPP. Alarms don't wake me up, i can't wake myself up, my mom had to dump a cup of water on me every morning to wake me up for high school a few years ago. Lol. So, that's a criteria i wouldn't have to worry about. But i don't even get the slightest bit tired until like 5:30 AM so i am looking for something i can take around midnight and be knocked TF out.

I also have some VERY good insurance so the prices of the meds doesn't effect me at all, or having to have them special ordered.

I'm definitely looking for something however that i would be able to skip a dose on if i'm away from home and don't want to get too comfortable in bed or if i have a lot of homework without too many negative effects the next day. Or that i can stop taking a few years down the line without too many withdrawal effects.

And lastly, oddly enough, the Remeron actually never made me tired the next day (in-fact, it might have made it quite a bit easier to wake up the next day) and it also made me lose 30 lbs. Even decreased my appetite which is a good thing since i'm a diabetic. But it's pretty much completely stopped working now so i'm not even sure there's any hope left in continuing on it.

So, most of you guys recommend Trazodone? Does it really work though? Cause i thought that was the pill people keep mentioning that has negative interactions with lots of other pills/drugs. And it should be known i also take Klonopin and Ritalin during the day/afternoon. And are the erowid reports true on it that it produces some hallucinations? Cause that would be epic if it does. Lol. I like recreational, also pretty good at not abusing so luckily that wouldn't be a problem for me. The drunker and sloppier feeling the better though (although i can't drink so pills like that are the best). Wish Quaaludes were still around.

But that was a bit off topic, does Trazadone actually knock you out? Cause i need something comparable to a punch to the head from Mike Tyson to put me asleep.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Trazodone is an effective sleep aid for many including myself. It did however make me feel very strange and uncomfortable.

Keep in mind that trazodone is an antidepressant. By taking it long-term, you may have to deal with some of the unwanted side effects that come with this class of drugs.

Have you tried hydroxyzine (vistaril;atarax)? It's a sedating antihistamine, that in my experience, acts like diphenhydramine with less intense physical side effects.

 

[TheSacredTree]

Trazodone is an effective sleep aid for many including myself. It did however make me feel very strange and uncomfortable.

Keep in mind that trazodone is an antidepressant. By taking it long-term, you may have to deal with some of the unwanted side effects that come with this class of drugs.

Have you tried hydroxyzine (vistaril;atarax)? It's a sedating antihistamine, that in my experience, acts like diphenhydramine with less intense physical side effects.

I haven't heard of Hydroxyzine yet but if it's an antihistamine and is related too much to Benadryl it might not be good for me. Benadryl makes me all itchy and burns my eyes really bad. Does put me to sleep though.

And what are the side effects of Trazodone?

 

[TheSacredTree]

Also have been reading about Zaleplon (Sonata). Anyone know about this one or is it just like Ambien?

 

[paranoid android]

Also have been reading about Zaleplon (Sonata). Anyone know about this one or is it just like Ambien?

It's shit had it years ago when it was still on the market here as Starnoc. It's not even worth the trip tho the pharmacy to pick it up. It made me hallucinate but no sleepiness at all.

 

[wezface]

Sonata terrifies me. Ambien made me hallucinate but did not make me tired; since these are in a drug class known as hypnotics, I have a sneaking (as yet unconfirmed or supported other than anecdotally) suspicion that they work differently for people with certain mental disorders such as seizure or dissociative disorders, which I have.

 

[TheSacredTree]

I do like hallucinating, especially of the dissociative/psychosis kind, but if it doesn't work for sleeping it would probably be a waste for me medically then. Thank you for the info.

 

[Smoky]

For me those types of meds don't personally work due to my history of trauma. I can be rather dissociated as is. I hallucinated from them as well.
Seroquel historically always helped me sleep best. Everyone responds differently of course.

 

[olypen]

A good dose of trazadone will knock me the fuck out, just like remeron does. It however leaves me groggy well into the next day, but not nearly as bad as remeron. Since you dont have that problem with Remeron you might consider it a good option. Seroquel might be another option, which l wont take myself.

I take 30 mg Restoril up to 3-4 tiimes a week, which would be a poor choice for you because you want something every night and it would most likely lose its efficacy if taken every night. Some people swear it works every night, but it's a benzo and I find if I take it every night it stops working. However i also take 20mg of Valium every day, which should have some sort of cross tolerance and it still puts me out without snowing me into the next day.

 

[the_farklenator]

for me trazadone makes me physically tired but mentally I'd be wide awake but to lazy to do anything ;/

 

[TheSacredTree]

And is Trazodone safe to take in the night for sleep even though i take Klonopin during the day for anxiety? The Klonopin doesn't make me tired either so i doubt it but should probably make sure. And Ritalin in the day as well? Cause some antidepressants (Wellbutrin) DEFINITELY do not mix well with Ritalin.

 

[olypen]

And is Trazodone safe to take in the night for sleep even though i take Klonopin during the day for anxiety? The Klonopin doesn't make me tired either so i doubt it but should probably make sure. And Ritalin in the day as well? Cause some antidepressants (Wellbutrin) DEFINITELY do not mix well with Ritalin.

"Using clonazePAM together with traZODone may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you."

"No other interactions were found between your selected drugs."

http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,703-357,1606-979

 

[TheSacredTree]

"Using clonazePAM together with traZODone may increase side effects such as dizziness, drowsiness, and difficulty concentrating. Some people may also experience some impairment in thinking and judgment. You should avoid or limit the use of alcohol while being treated with these medications. Avoid driving or operating hazardous machinery until you know how the medications affect you."

"No other interactions were found between your selected drugs."

http://www.drugs.com/interactions-check.php?drug_list=2228-0,703-357,1606-979

So it increases some of my favorite effects. Cool.

 

[olypen]

lol thats what i thought.. not bad at all if you're trying to sleep