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Which is more damaging; Cannabis or Heroin? [split from DC]

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paradoxcycle said:
It's disheartening that you've all decided to join forces against me (especially considering one of you is a mod).
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Honestly, this is awfully paranoid, something you'd expect from a cannabis user, not a heroin user.. ;)

1) I never requested this thread to be moved to CD, the original topic was is THC neurotoxic and now the thread is Which is more damaging; Cannabis or Heroin?!!?
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So what? THC is neurotoxic does NOT describe the topic at hand accurately, the new one does, I don't see why the fuck you'd have a problem with this..? That it's in Cannabis Discussion isn't relevant at all, I could move this over to ADD or OD or DC, but overall you'd get pretty much the same replies from the same people. If you really feel you're fighting a lost battle in Cannabis Discussion only, I'll move this elsewhere so you can continue discussion..

2) It's unfair that I have already proven THC is neurotoxic and you all demand that I continue to cite studies regarding heroin neurotoxicity.
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Nothing is unfair, you just feel that way. Don't play victim when you've started the whole argument.

Of course you will all assert cannabis is a safer drug, look what forum we're in.
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And sorry to say it paradoxycle, but cannabis IS a safer drug, I cannot fathom how you don't want to see this.. Because even despite cannabis supposed neurotoxicity, the damage that would be done is relatively benign, not to mention that there's no recorded deaths from cannabis alone, there are from heroin. So what if heroin supposedly should be "healthier", use it the wrong way and you can die pretty easily, use weed the wrong way and you might see brain changes after 30+ years.. Sooo, yeah..

Cannabis is a safer drug than heroin is, no argument.
 
with all do respect i don't see how anyone can put pot in the same boat as smack. Not anything wrong with either drug... but one is a lot more addictive and the result is typically a lot worse. I've seen some ppl do things for herion that i would never see a pot head do.... (hopefully at least)
 
paradoxcycle said:
Just a heads-up:

1) I never requested this thread to be moved to CD, the original topic was is THC neurotoxic and now the thread is Which is more damaging; Cannabis or Heroin?!!?

2) It's unfair that I have already proven THC is neurotoxic and you all demand that I continue to cite studies regarding heroin neurotoxicity.

I've proven my point previously, so I'm done with this thread. It's disheartening that you've all decided to join forces against me (especially considering one of you is a mod). Of course you will all assert cannabis is a safer drug, look what forum we're in. This whole thing has turned into a childish "no, I'm right, you're wrong, no, I'm right, you're wrong" dispute and I don't have the time to continue it. :\
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And if the title changed does that make heroin less damaging? Discussions flow and change direction. No worries.

Well… the irony in the "proof" statement is that the studies involving cultured cells are ridiculously flawed. This was recognized by both parties in regards to heroin's damage potential and only recognized as flawed by the cannabis camp in regards to cannabis studies. Pretty inconsistent.

And as for bringing the Ego into this… it has no place in a rational discussion. If you approach something with love more often than not be reflected back to you. Also goes for objectivity in a discussion. I say let's restart this with both parties trying not to prove the other wrong but actually find the answer. It seems that THC is neurotoxic, but not enough for most people to care about. It also seems that heroin is neurotoxic and that toxicity can cause death as was documented in many a case. I don't think that's the answer but that's where the facts have put us. Again no need to personalize this. I love weed and I find heroin scary and have a rational dislike of it, but it's not a fear nor are my opinions based on a bias or a need to prove someone wrong. It's taken friends from me, but –away from the personal emotive side of the argument– on the rational side I see no positives. With all things in life there is a cycle. Heroin has so many negatives that it's not worth it. Which is more neurotoxic? Who knows at this point. Seems like heroin to me what with all the leukodystrophy and what not. Compared to flawed studies and contradictory studies involving standardized tests in regards to cannabis. But the more important question is which is more damaging? He-motherfucking-roin. No questions. Peace.
 
I'll move this to OD where more opiate users are going to be able to offer their views, we've had mostly cannabis users arguing in here, so I presume it'll be somewhat more "balanced".. If this dies out overthere, paradoxcycle could always move it to ADD for some more additional info.
 
Wait, whats the stance on the neurotoxicity of THC?

I can safely tell you that smoking marijuana has had diminishing returns on my mental capacity while popping oxy for the fast few months has not changed me one bit.

Heroin in a sense may be for physically damaging due to all of the adulterants that one is injecting into his body, the missed shots forming abcesses, and the numerous deaths pretaining from combined drug overdoses involving heroin. However, I find that mentally cannabis is much more damaging. And for me alone, I value my intelligence more then I value my physical health.
 
You do not need all these complicated reasearch reports that all you guys did (personally, i do not know why you even bothered trying to prove this with actual studies, reports, etc). ANYBODY with a sense of logic can and will be able to tell you that Heroin is much more damaging then Cannabis. Heroin is unclean too, due to cuts.

Try an experiment: do heroin for 1 year, nevermind that, do heroin for 3-6months, but everyday. And after the end of the time period you choose to do, STOP. And don't take any again for the same amount of period of time that you DID the heroin, say u do 5 months, stay kleen 5 months.

Try another experiment. Smoke weed for 1 year.....i'll give you something even more challenging, smoke weed for 2years or even 3 years, and make sure you smoke it EVERYDAY. Matter of fact, smoke it as many times a day as you whish. Stop....and stay clean for the same amount of time you did using.

Which do you think will fuck your body and your brain/body chemistry up most? Which has a higher chance that you won't be able to stop? Which has a higher chance that you can releapse? No one has died from weed, no one sweats and shakes when they don't got weed, no one finds when they cannot get weed. No one has robbed houses and friends for weed. No one has fucked up their family/friends/job/social relationship b/c of weed. No one abandons life and all it's pressures to live in a room with low lighting and a tv, and STILL feel statisfied feeling that you don't need anything else in the world, besides your heroin. Who, if they run out of weed, will go through EXTREME measures to find more weed? Which H addict or semi addict can stop whenever they want, put the stash away and use it again at an appropiate time (meaning in a week or two weeks, which sounds like a joke already, one week TOPS)? Which drug ruined more lives?

Come on man....this is a question for a 10 year old. Any person is able to differantiate between these two chemicals. One, with a VERY fierce amount of power, and an equal potential to destroy all the possible power in you, mental and physicall. It's potential is so strong that your selfcontrol will crumble when heroin is introduced.
The other drug, a very benign, prob the safest drug of all drugs. It will not do any of the negative things that heroin or opiates do. MUCH safer.......

Again a question of a 10 year old. Do you perhaps have some problems with your head? B/c that would explain a lot about this post.
 
In short...
Anyone who says cannabis is more damaging then Heroin is either retared/unintelligent or is purposly trying to mislead others. Pure and simple as that.
 
WOW. Paradoxcycle, man, I'm all the way with you on this one. Bullshit has literally oozed off my computer screen and gotten my keyboard all sticky.

Where to start... I'll go in order of response to oldest post.

socka, yes, alcohol withdrawal can kill you. However, you must be extremely addicted for this to happen. Don't get me wrong, even non-fatal withdrawal is extremely horrific, but to attain a level of alcohol addiction that is life threatening takes many years, possibly decades.

You idiots who say stupid shit like "What is darker, day or night? What is worse, pot or heroin?" are just fucking retards. Such comments provide no insight at all besides your blatant stupidity and sheep mentality to absorb whatever the media tells you. THINK what the question is asking.

What is more damaging!

Heroin obviously has a higher risk than marijuana, due to overdose and the development of dependency after regular usage without having a time for the drug to leave your system (72 hours for heroin). However, that is much more different than damaging. Water has a higher risk than marijuana, because you can die from drinking too much water. There is no recorded marijuana overdose, and that being the case, I doubt there ever was one.

But what leaves adverse permanent effects, is the real issue here.

I have never heard of heroin leaving permanent effects, nor have I heard such with marijuana. However I believe Paradoxcycle has provided ample evidence, sourced, showing that marijuana does leave long term adverse effects in humans .

Now, these such affects did not sound dangerous or harmful, but they were adverse.

gloggawogga, you have provided many excellent and sourced studies as well, however, you have a fatal flaw no one has pointed out. All of the studies were conducted on people who were at the time addicted to heroin. None of them said they were conducted on people who have used heroin, or use heroin, with no addiction. One could even say that your studies are based on the acute effects of heroin.

gloggawogga, I'm also a bit put off by your personal attacks on Paradoxcycle such as your critism on how he controls his usage. He never said he needed a person to do that; he only said how helpful it was. You have made other comments against him that are blatant, unrelated, and just rude to him as well. I do not recall the title of this threat being called "Which is more damaging; Cannabis or Heroin; and lets make fun of paradoxcycle".

I do not believe anything paradoxcycle has said was hypocritical. Please make sure of what you say before you make such strong accusations. Please put half as much effort when you make a claim against a person as you do on your flawed research on heroin studies.

Also, adulterants are a much different issue. It is extremely unfair, biased, and irrelevant that many of you are discussing adulterants in this issue. We are talking about heroin, I don't remember the discussion being about the heroin off the black man on the street corner, or the dirty heroin with 30% purity. How fair would it be for paradoxcycle to start spouting statistics, only to say days later that "oh, I was talking about the marijuana you get around Maryland in the 80's that was more often than not, laced with PCP"?

By the way, I am someone you can use as your "model heroin user". I have been using heroin for a year now. I have only injected heroin. I have never overdosed, I have never even feared for my life or wellbeing because of heroin. I have never experienced withdrawal symptoms. And I have never had my tolerance rise more than .01 of a gram. That is the correct number there. I take many breaks between my usage, and can stop at anytime. I truly mean that. I just came back from a 10 day vacation where I did not use, and I have for than once gone more than 10 days without heroin.

I repeat, I have never felt withdrawal or addiction. Ever. My dose is around .02g to .04g depending on purity. I am sure a whole $20 bag would kill me :)

Hey ombladon, you are the one who is "either retarded/unintelligent". I have not heard of any heroin users who were deemed retarded or slow. I have seen many potheads who were very slow and dim. Is it because they used to smoke alot, or hungover? I don't know. The issue here is DAMAGE, not risk.

And I highly doubt daily usage of marijuana for years, and then abruptly stop, would be peace for your body. Perhaps no physical dependency would have developed, but your body will be suited to perform normally with such doses of marijuana.

Again, you thickheaded numbskulls. The issue is DAMAGE, not risk.
 
Which is more damaging; Cannabis or Heroin?

What a stupid thread.

[sarcasm]Weed is more damaging[/sarcasm]

How the fuck can you even compare these two?
 
Because neither of them cause noticeably detrimental long term affects. The only issue here is that heroin has the potential to cause fatal acute affects. This is risk, not damage.

How the fuck can you be so retarded?
 
I don't know psychotiKK. Comparisons are usually drawn when two or more things are seen to have comparable characteristics. I know this may be a little mind blowing to your monkey brain, but it's something we all must learn to do in kingergarten. What the hell is with the hostility.

You could just prove what I said was wrong and be rational. Or you could, in response to been proven wrong, attack me vehemently in a manner unrelated to the topic at hand. It is a common characteristic of those who have stupid viewpoints.
 
CreativeRandom said:
I don't know psychotiKK. Comparisons are usually drawn when two or more things are seen to have comparable characteristics. I know this may be a little mind blowing to your monkey brain, but it's something we all must learn to do in kingergarten. What the hell is with the hostility.

You could just prove what I said was wrong and be rational. Or you could, in response to been proven wrong, attack me vehemently in a manner unrelated to the topic at hand. It is a common characteristic of those who have stupid viewpoints.
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Heroin and other opiates can amplify my emotions. I can also get angry and post something similar to that. While baked, I am more respectful and alot less likely to become angered. You can become physically and mentally dependant to Heroin. When you try to compare both of these drugs and wonder which one is the most dangerous for long-term use, you have to consider how many heroin related deaths have occured compared to marijuana.

Instead of using stereotypes to argue which group of people are smarter between 'pot heads' and 'junkies', you should post scientific evidence about the damage marijuana or heroin use can do to the brain. You should know that smoking weed doesn't make you stupid.
 
^^ You still dont see what he's saying at all. I dont know what the hell you're talking about opiates letting you get very angry, sounds absurd to me. That isn't really the point though, the point is that he's talking about the effect of heroin on the cells in your body. Not which one you'll get hooked on faster or easier or which one costs more or anything like that.

And if you smoke weed, then smoking weed DOES make you stupid. There are about a million and one toxicity studies in this thread you dolt, read it all the way though.

Yes, I mean to be a dick. What goes around comes around, right?
 
People have already posted scientific evidence here. All my posts on this thread have been responses.

You can become mentally addicted to anything. You are blowing wind here buddy.

Yes, you can become physically addicted to heroin. Yes, heroin can kill you within minutes of dosing. These are both due to acute effects of heroin, which are risks. You are not listening to what I am saying, or what anyone is saying, or even what the thread title is. Are you that retarded? Is this the result of marijuana?

Water can cause acutely. Marijuana can't. Water is *riskier* than marijuana, in the same way heroin is *riskier* than marijuana. However, marijuana is more *damaging* than water. Understand?

Actually, come to think of it, wouldn't injecting heroin be less dangerous than smoking marijuana due to the carcinogenic effects of smoking? That is more an issue of administration though...

Yes, that claim I made on pot heads and junkies coincides with generalizations and stereotypes. However, I made clear in my post that my comment was based on my personal observation, not on word-of-mouth stereotypes and generalization.

Again, you prove you are a brainless idiot who is rambling out of your ass.

Thank you ToxicFerret. By the way, I have never heard of such studies. I have heard of the neurotoxicity but I did not know the association was to stupidity. It does seem to make you slower and dimmer but that seems to be an acute effect rather than a permenent or lasting effect.
 
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