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Which drugs would you legalize?

Which drugs would you legalize?

  • Marijuana/Hashish

    Votes: 540 56.1%
  • Cocaine/Crack Cocaine

    Votes: 110 11.4%
  • Heroin

    Votes: 146 15.2%
  • Opium

    Votes: 201 20.9%
  • MDMA(Ecstasy)

    Votes: 366 38.0%
  • Gamma Hydroxy Butyrate(GHB)

    Votes: 118 12.3%
  • Ketamine

    Votes: 206 21.4%
  • Dimethyltryptamine(DMT)

    Votes: 243 25.2%
  • Psilocybin Mushrooms

    Votes: 371 38.5%
  • LSD

    Votes: 374 38.8%
  • Mescaline

    Votes: 277 28.8%
  • Phencyclidine(PCP)

    Votes: 88 9.1%
  • 2C-x Family

    Votes: 213 22.1%
  • 4-AcO Family

    Votes: 152 15.8%
  • 4-HO Family

    Votes: 151 15.7%
  • DOx Family

    Votes: 138 14.3%
  • I would legalize all drugs

    Votes: 449 46.6%

  • Total voters
    963
^what are your views on ketamine? it is very similar to pcp in effects. also, i think most of the reason ppl do stupid stuff is b/c when they do it, they most likely don't know the dose they are doing, so they prolly end up doing too much and it overwhelmes them. the drug itself does not make them go crazy.

also, i believe there are just as many ppl doing the same kinda stuff while drunk on alcohol, ppl doing violent acts, drunk driving, stupid stuff in general. pcp just has a big stigma, just like heroin, and meth, and coke.
 
Legalize them all, prices will drop and less ODs and drug-related crimes would occur I think. Imagine buying a pack of pure MDMA pills with all the harm reduction related information on the leaflet inside. "Mom can you buy me a bag of Herion when you are at the grocery store? They are next to the LSD blotters I think." =D

Peace o/
 
Ketamine? I think that it make people not move very much wich is good and not as crazy/violent,especialy at k-hole doses.It isnt as toxic too with less brain damage.
 
^ketamine is a dissociative anaesthetic and so in phencyclidine(pcp). they made ketamine as a substitute to pcp b/c pcp had too many side effects on humans and was more psychedelic, causing unusual reactions with patients. but both drugs have very similar effects. also the neurotoxicity of pcp is not well documented and it is not 100% fact that it causes any significant brain damage at all. basically what i'm saying is its not the horror story the media portrays it, as with pretty much all drugs they try to demonize.
 
Yes the media over dramatizes drugs. But they have a point. Some of the shit is fucking demonic, lives ruined some beyond repair. Drugs are not something to mess around with. Why do people only care about 'fun' and 'being supaaa cooooool' and take a look at it. respect them and dont abuse them or rely on them for fun. I am drunk and ranting. why does everyone want drugs legalized, i dont get it. whats the point. you wont be able to get them without prescription or anything NOTHING WILL CHANGE. no matter what you all want to believe, it aint gonna happen. ever. even one in a tirllion chance it is; rules would be so godamn tight on it. ther wud still be a blackmarket, pharms aint gonna sell out drugs to anyone! godamn pipe dreams
 
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Yes the media over dramatizes drugs. But they have a point. Some of the shit is fucking demonic, lives ruined some beyond repair. Drugs are not something to mess around with. Why do people only care about 'fun' and 'being supaaa cooooool' and take a look at it. respect them and dont abuse them or rely on them for fun. I am drunk and ranting. why does everyone want drugs legalized, i dont get it. whats the point. you wont be able to get them without prescription or anything NOTHING WILL CHANGE. no matter what you all want to believe, it aint gonna happen. ever. even one in a tirllion chance it is; rules would be so godamn tight on it. ther wud still be a blackmarket, pharms aint gonna sell out drugs to anyone! godamn pipe dreams

just about 80% of all the problems associated with drug use/addiction are b/c of their illegality.
i don't just think drugs are "fun" or "suppa cool", i think of them in a respectable manner. hell, i don't even really do drugs anymore, to get high at least. i respect them as chemicals and don't discriminate between drugs i happen to like or dislike or loathe.
lastly, i think the point of them being legal is for them to be taxed and sold in a manner similar to alcohol and cigarettes, not prescription from a doctor type thing and yes there would still be a black market but it would be greatly reduced b/c why would ppl buy from a drug dealer when they can go buy it at a store/pharmacy themselves. and this lack of a black market for drugs would greatly reduce violence associated with the black market and overdoses from wrong doses and horrible cuts these ppl use. one of the main reasons marijuana hasn't been legalized yet is because it is not easily taxable and the pharm companies wouldn't make all their money on it like they do with other drugs.
also, these illicit drugs are just chemicals just like prescription drugs and alcohol and nicotine, they all have positives and negatives, some more negatives than others, the main reason these drugs were made illegal in the first place is becaues of stupid racial prejudices going on at the time. like the chinese luring in white woman with their devil opium and black mean going crazy and raping white women with their cocaine. and yes, i am well aware these drugs will not be legalized anytime soon, i'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of this prohibtion and all the horrible stuff it causes and lives it ruins.
 
and how are legal drugs to kept out the hands of minors? how are you going to prevent the blackmarket from undercutting the price? legalization will result in an increase in drug addicts who will need medical care and support. So, there goes your taxpayer dollars you're spending on the drug dealers into caring for these people. i'm not necessarily in favor of imprisoning addicts, but legalizing would only end up harming more people than it helps. legalizing harder drugs is never going to happen here; it doesn't really change much.

it's kinda like abortion - certain people are going to do it regardless of whether it's legal or not and others never do it at all. i think it's naive an shortsighted to think that taking away drug dealers' business through legalization. drug dealers will get into money laundering, guns, human trafficking, identity theft, numbers, contract killings..list is absolutely endless. every society contains a sizable proportion whose members refuse to make an honest living under any circumstances.

drug use (not just the trade) has big social costs in the form of crime, homelessness, and an increase in demand for taxpayer-funded services. extra drug use would increase these.
which particular drugs should be legalized can be debated, and I havent decided, but doing so to get rid of the criminals in drug trade is unlikely to work. also; a lot of criminals are incarcerated for doing crimes WHILST UNDER THE INFLUENCE. therefore, crime would probably not change much as lots of crimes would occur, therefore just as much taxpayers money goes into criminals.

i do see your side of the point - drug users are punished considerably hard.
i do not agree with the extent of the 'drug war' it is truly ridiculous. i would easily support decriminalization for a personal usage. but not totally legalization - i could not bear to see that happen. i have been an addict for 6.5 yrs and i can easily say it has destroyed my mental and physical health, i have done nothing with my life other than abuse meth. a whole generation like me? i would be scared as fuck to see that.
just to add: i do not know everything. i do not KNOW this would happen but it is my opinion, not a fact and i cannot be sure of this, but we cannot be sure of either side of the fencee.
 
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all drugs should be legalized. it is very clear that no amount of money and effort will ever win 'the war on drugs' the drugs that are legal are some of the least beneficial and most addictive and unhealthy, the whole policy is backwards, we are feeding organized crime with a huge paycheck. drugs being illegal makes the price and profit margin skyrocket to an absurd level. The people who make these laws must be getting an even bigger paycheck.....
 
Ketamine? I think that it make people not move very much wich is good and not as crazy/violent,especialy at k-hole doses.It isnt as toxic too with less brain damage.


Bullshit. PCP doesn't make people crazy or violent, and there's no evidence that ketamine is any better for your brain.
 
To kick off this post I'm going to include a few pictures of drugs I bought legally back when you could still do that in the Netherlands.

Some fresh cubes and truffles. They taste absolutely delicious when fresh.

http://img99.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legalizedvx8.jpg

Capsules ("Bliss Balls") containing a Hawaiian Baby Woodrose extract.
http://img405.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legalized2jq0.jpg

Up until 2008 fresh mushrooms were legally available from so-called smart shops in the Netherlands and IMO they never caused any real problems. The shop owners are quite knowledgable and provide customers with tons of useful information on set and setting when asked, about set & setting, possible dangers etc. Usage rates for psychedelics in the Netherlands always remained stable and were often lower than those in neighbouring countries (2.6% of all Dutch people report having used mushrooms in their lives). Information about psychedelics is still widely available and prominent even in the mainstream media. Here's a Dutch TV show where an adventurous reporter samples mushrooms (and in other episodes, just about every other drug). Fast forward to 6:45.
The Dutch have always had a reputation for being open about pretty much everything, and extremely "liberal" in American terms.

The only ones really causing problems were ofcourse the tourists. After a few widely publicised incidents where inexperienced and reckless tourists bought mushrooms and had bad trips on them, often having eaten the mushrooms straight out of the box as soon as they stepped out of the store. One French tourist with known psychiatric problems in particular jumped off a bridge after allegedly eating mushrooms, even though blood and stomach tests didn't seem to indicate any signs of mushroom consumption. This media case pushed MPs to enact a ban for all psychedelic mushrooms, even the ones growing in the wild. :|

Would complete legalization of every single drug work? In my opinion, yes. Absolutely. Just because something is legal doesn't mean the whole social stigma surrounding certain drugs is just going to vanish into thin air. People aren't idiots and they will remain cautious of drugs like heroin and meth even when they can buy them freely. I have an interesting fact here for you: there is almost no methamphetamine available via the illegal market on the European mainland. If you want meth, you're going to have to cook it up yourself. Resource for its production are widely available, I could walk into the grocery store and buy boxes of pseudo-containing cold medicine if I wished. I think the bad rep that meth has garnered in the States is what's keeping European dealers from going into wholesale production. This proves that with a sensible awareness campaign, people can be deterred from using the most addictive drugs while addicts are able to afford their habit without having it ruin their career. Here's another proof: cannabis usage rates in the Netherlands are far lower than usage rates in both France and the United states (incidentally, both of which countries have very strict drug policies) even though you can legally buy even the strongest strains at coffeeshops.
 
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and how are legal drugs to kept out the hands of minors? how are you going to prevent the blackmarket from undercutting the price? legalization will result in an increase in drug addicts who will need medical care and support. So, there goes your taxpayer dollars you're spending on the drug dealers into caring for these people. i'm not necessarily in favor of imprisoning addicts, but legalizing would only end up harming more people than it helps. legalizing harder drugs is never going to happen here; it doesn't really change much.

it's kinda like abortion - certain people are going to do it regardless of whether it's legal or not and others never do it at all. i think it's naive an shortsighted to think that taking away drug dealers' business through legalization. drug dealers will get into money laundering, guns, human trafficking, identity theft, numbers, contract killings..list is absolutely endless. every society contains a sizable proportion whose members refuse to make an honest living under any circumstances.
drug use (not just the trade) has big social costs in the form of crime, homelessness, and an increase in demand for taxpayer-funded services. extra drug use would increase these.
which particular drugs should be legalized can be debated, and I havent decided, but doing so to get rid of the criminals in drug trade is unlikely to work. also; a lot of criminals are incarcerated for doing crimes WHILST UNDER THE INFLUENCE. therefore, crime would probably not change much as lots of crimes would occur, therefore just as much taxpayers money goes into criminals.

i do see your side of the point - drug users are punished considerably hard.
i do not agree with the extent of the 'drug war' it is truly ridiculous. i would easily support decriminalization for a personal usage. but not totally legalization - i could not bear to see that happen. i have been an addict for 6.5 yrs and i can easily say it has destroyed my mental and physical health, i have done nothing with my life other than abuse meth. a whole generation like me? i would be scared as fuck to see that.
just to add: i do not know everything. i do not KNOW this would happen but it is my opinion, not a fact and i cannot be sure of this, but we cannot be sure of either side of the fencee.


ok say if u had to be 21 to buy drugs, kids say all the time nowadays that its easier for them to get weed or something else rather than trying to get alcohol or cigarettes. of course, this would not be perfect, there would be some ppl that get older ppl to buy it for them or get fake id's,etc.. but it would control the age limit for the most part.
about the black market undercutting the prices, right now ppl selling drugs are loving it cause they can buy something for said prices and sell it for 10 to 20 times as much, now if drugs were the same price as alcohol, they would be very cheap, now if they were desperate enough to try to stay in business after drugs are legal, fine, but they would be lucky to get a small profit at all b/c of the much cheaper price. like i said before, this won't get rid of the black market completely, just like for example, there are still ppl making illegal alcohol, moonshine, even nowadays. but the black market would be greatly attacked by this legalization of drugs. lots of drug dealers say all the time that they don't want drug to be legal b/c why would they when they can make all this money?
ok yes i believe at first, drug usage/addiction would go up some b/c of this huge change, but most ppl are not stupid, the main ppl that would be doing drugs are the same ones doing them now. no straight-edge person is suddenly gonna decide he wants to shoot up heroin or drop LSD. when alcohol prohibition ended, ppl didn't suddenly run out and do all the alcohol they could just b/c it was legal again, there might have been some, but very few overall. this would be the same for drugs, after a few years, drug usage would be the same as now, if not less. drugs would be cheaper causing less homeless ppl, needles could be got easily, causing less ppl to share needles and get HIV, the purity and dosage would be known, causing less overdoses and nasty infections b/c of the cuts, ppl wouldn't be looked down upon b/c of the stigma near as much, and a big part, ppl would not be arrested for non-violent drug crimes, such as possession, therefore they might actually be able to get a job afterwards. now with all this taxpayer money going to different places instead of putting nonviolent ppl in jail, they could spend this money on harm reduction techniques, such drug education courses, rehabilitation money, needles, clean, sterile equipment, etc...
ok i understand what your saying about drug dealers finding new ways of doing stuff, but they are gonna do that anyways, so let them do what they want, you think drugs should stay legal so they can continue selling drugs and not go into those other forms of illicit activity?? i think thats a bad reason to keep drugs illegal.
and lastly, the main reason you seem to have to keeping drugs illegal is that drug usage would increase, causing these other problems. i think that is a small problem on the big outlook of things, i mean wouldnt you rather have drug violence deaths, drug arrests, HIV spreading, etc... greatly reduced rather than drug usage increasing a little??
 
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another thing that should help show why drug usage won't increase that much is Amsterdam. cannabis and psilocybin mushrooms are sold there in coffeeshops and smart shops. now you would think since those things are easily gotten, then everybody would be doing it, according to claire22, but no, the biggest drug problem in amsterdam is alcohol. the locals just see it as a normal thing, they don't run out and grab it all the time just b/c its easily available and tolerated. now recently, magic mushrooms were banned in amsterdam i believe, not b/c of the locals abusing it and doing violent things, but b/c of the stupid tourists going there just to smoke weed and trip of mushies and doing illegal/stupid stuff. the tourists are going there b/c its tolerated and easily gotten and the netherlands does not like this. i think its funny how in a place where these drugs are tolerated and sold openly that there are less ppl using these drugs and less ppl doing stupid stuff yet in other countries, drugs are illegal and more ppl do these drugs and more violence ensues. thats just my opinion tho.
 
This PDF file is about "Alcohol and Drug Prevention Policy in the US and the Netherlands" by Majone Steketee from the Verwey-Jonker Institute and the Social Development Research Group of the University of Washington. Other authors are: Kevin Haggerty, Sabrina Oesterle and J. David Hawkins, PI.

Alcohol is a known problem here in the Netherlands, the legal age at which someone can buy beer or wine is 16 years and 18 years for liquor. In the US people can only buy and use Alcohol when they are 21 years or older, so there is a noticeable difference between our countries regarding drug policy. We have a distinction between substances here while in the US Alcohol, Tobacco and Cannabis are all considered to be 'drugs'.

Now there are a few hypotheses that are mentioned in the PDF file regarding drug use in the Netherlands compared to the US:

  1. Cannabis use is higher in the Netherlands
  2. Hard drug use is lower in the Netherlands
  3. Alcohol and Tobacco use is higher in the Netherlands

From national data gathered by the authors of the study 60% of US citizens had used Alcohol at least once in their life compared to 87% of all NL citizens. When asked about recent use (in the past month) the results showed a remarkable 28% for the US and 62% in the NL. Tobacco shows similar numbers, when asked if they had used Tobacco at least once in their life the numbers where 36% for the US and 49% for the NL. When asked about recent use it was 14% and 24% respectively.

Conclusion: Alcohol and Tobacco use is higher in the Netherlands than it is in the US.

Now when we look at the use of Cannabis, we see a small difference of 27% for the US and 21% for the NL, meaning that less Dutch citizens have smoked Cannabis at least once in their life. When looking at recent use (in the past month) it is 12% in the US and 9% in the NL.
This study shows that the decriminalisation of Cannabis in the Netherlands has not led to an increase in users, unless we're talking about all the Belgian, French and German tourists. ;)

Conclusion: The use of Cannabis is NOT higher, but lower in the Netherlands.

When it comes to 'hard' drugs the numbers of people who have used illict drugs in their life are 26% for the US and 13% for the NL, quite a difference meaning that there is no such thing as a 'gateway drug' IMHO. :)

Final Conclusion: in the USA there is more use of Cannabis and hard drugs, and in the Netherlands there is more Alcohol and Tobacco use but less use of soft and hard drugs. The zero tolerance policy in the USA doesn't work to keep people off the drugs while our Harm Reduction policy works because there is lower use of both soft and hard drugs.

My personal opinion is that possesion of drugs should not be illegal unless we're talking about large quantities and that some drugs should be legalized because of the fact that the 'War on Drugs' does more harm than good in terms of harm reduction, more overdoses etc.

Comments anyone? I'd love to hear them :)

Peace o/
 
I think legalizing strong opiates and strong dopaminergics (heroin and coke/crack being the classic examples) would create epidemic-level abuse. In a perfect world, where people understood the risks and used these drugs responsibly, they would be suitable for recreation. But we're not there yet. Giving hordes of emotionally unstable people unrestricted access to highly addictive drugs would ruin a lot of lives (not just the users', either).

I am very uncomfortable with this whole debate, because it feels wrong to say "it's ok for me but not for thee". On the other hand, I am fully aware that many in the US (perhaps the majority) would self-destruct on these substances. Look how many people self-destruct on alcohol and prescription meds. I guess I'm conflicted between idealism and realism on this topic.

I don't think I could've come up with a better answer than what you posted.
 
Originally Posted by BodhiSvaha33
I think legalizing strong opiates and strong dopaminergics (heroin and coke/crack being the classic examples) would create epidemic-level abuse. In a perfect world, where people understood the risks and used these drugs responsibly, they would be suitable for recreation. But we're not there yet. Giving hordes of emotionally unstable people unrestricted access to highly addictive drugs would ruin a lot of lives (not just the users', either).I am very uncomfortable with this whole debate, because it feels wrong to say "it's ok for me but not for thee". On the other hand, I am fully aware that many in the US (perhaps the majority) would self-destruct on these substances. Look how many people self-destruct on alcohol and prescription meds. I guess I'm conflicted between idealism and realism on this topic.


the U.S. already gives ppl full access to drugs like alcohol and nicotine, i don't see how it would be any different for other drugs. ppl choose if they are gonna abuse them or not, and they are gonna do it whether these drugs are legal or not, so why not legalize and reduce all these horrible things caused by prohibition and let them choose like they get to with alcohol and nicotine. illegal drugs are definitely not any worse than alcohol or nicotine yet ppl get to choose if they want to partake in those. i understand your point yet i believe most of the problems associated with illegal drugs would be drastically decreased by legalization and just because some ppl THINK there would be "epidemic levels" of abuse is not enough reason to keep them illegal. look at the amsterdam posts above, in a society where some drugs are tolerated and other hard drugs are not looked down as much, there is LESS drug abuse and LESS drug use in general. this is just my opinion tho, i understand everyone's posts that disagree with me, except for the ppl that just choose to legalize the drugs they like, that is stupid.
 
What this whole debate really comes down to is an argument over how many people would become junkies (who wouldn't have otherwise) if all the barriers to access to highly addictive drugs were removed. I think it would be a lot of people.

I am catching up on an old thread here. I quoted this line because a lot of those who oppose legalization use it.

But, to thsoe who agree with the above statement about addiction, the burden of proof lies with you, not with us. Studies have been conducted that contradict the above statement. Where are the studies that back it up?
 
Drug legalization is a touchy subject. Outright legalization wouldn't solve all the problems people attribute to the "war on drugs," and it CERTAINLY would create a whole new set of problems to deal with.

Like what? Could you elaborate on this?
 
The only drug from that list I want legalized is cannabis.

I don't want the pilot of my airplane tripping face on acid or the cook at Mcdonalds all shermed out.

What a silly thing to say. The question was "Which drugs would you legalize," not "Which drugs would you make legal for airline pilots to use while flying a commercial jet plane"

Unfortunately, people say things like that often. It is difficult to debate the topic with people like that because they think they have made a great point when in fact they have missed the point entirely.
 
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