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Which drug is closest to a true psychotomimetic?

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Bluelighter
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I was thinking about this recently, reading first-hand accounts of schizophrenia and such, and it seems like a strong weed high has way more in common with psychosis than anything else (besides amphetamine-induced psychosis obviously). Hallucinogens make you hallucinate sure, but other than that they don't seem to have much in common with schizophrenic states.

Your thoughts?

Also, sorry if this is in the wrong place; might not be advanced enough for this forum, but seemed too heady for basic drug discussion, and it didn't fit into drug culture, so if the mods wanna move it it's fine with me.
 
Jamshyd said:
There is no answer to this question, since the definition of "psychosis" is very much a disputed one.
Click to expand...

True; I'm thinking specifically of paranoid schizophrenia here. I've heard voices on pot that were completely out of my control, had total paranoia where I thought someone I passed who'd honked an air-horn was following me, and I think some other things happened that I forgot/blocked out . . . it just seemed very similar to "traditional" schizophrenia, i.e. what a psychiatrist thinks of when he hears the word.

Then again I'm just a curious layman, so maybe I'm totally off on this :\
 
I think the delirium caused by drugs such as anticholinergics (and indeed, methamphetamine psychosis and/or sleep deprivation) is as close as you can get to the clinical definition of schizophrenia. It pretty much meets all the same criteria.
 
Andy yet schizophrenia is mainly concerned with auditory hallucinations and paranoid delusions. It has to be stimuland induced (and sleep-dep) psychosis.

ebola
 
Antichlolinergics, i'd say.
Not so much stuff like BZ, as BZ is quite sedating - more stuff like scopolamine, atropine, maybe diphenhydramine, etc.
 
I heard several plp compare anticholinergics with paranoid schizophrenia. Can you give just a little more details concerning this comparison, plz? This is the first time I've heard this, so maybe I need just a bit explanation.

yhpruM
 
Are those comparisions made by people that do not have schizophrenia themselves and compare their drug induces states to how the state of schizophrenia commonly is depicted? I must say that I have very little knowledge of the subject, and this may be a dumb question but are there people that have recovered from fully developed schizophernia and can describe the experience in a "normal"/understandable way?
 
Sleep deprivation and a hallucinogen maybe?

A high dose of 2c-b (50mg) after being up for a few days (on amphetamines) made me very paranoid/delusional and would hear people talking to me that didn't exist.
 
I remember reading somewhere that Mescaline was used for years to mimic the brain chemistry of schizophrenia
 
As mentioned, anticholinergenics like scopolamine can produce a schizophrenia-like syndrome (i am not sure about QNB, matt suggested it was too sedating). A good example of a drug that produces something similar to a paranoid type schizophrenia is phenicyclidine, as it is can induce intense fear, and can sometimes cause a "on a misson from god" type reaction that you can occasionally see in individuals with severe paranoid schizophrenia.
 
I'd say either the sleep dep from long term meth use or plain old datura.

pcp has similarities, but it also has some crazy dissimilarities. It's similarities probably stem from the effects it shares with other DARIs.
 
LSD can--but is not usually--be quite a psychotomimetic (literally, "psychosis mimicker"), but sleep deprivation (generally due to methamphetamine ingestion) is a surefire path to delusion city, especially if the product was impure due to red P/I2 induced impurities. Luckily, methamphetamine induced psychosis is invariably reversible over time if you stop taking the drug.

Many drugs, mostly 5-HT2a receptor agonists, can induce HPPD (see the DSM-IV for details of that term), but even LSD-025 is not exactly going to induce the same mental state than that of a bona fide schizophrenic.

Schizophrenia is a multiformed illness with slow onset and is associated with morphological abnormalities within the CNS that take years to develop and usually manifest themselves in early adulthood. Dropping acid once won't make you a true schizophrenic, but it may act as a trigger in susceptible individuals.

I have also heard of 2cb and DMT inducing an HPPD like state, but these are rare cases. I prefer the term psychedelic for LSD; psychedelic literally means "soul [or mind] manifester." The term hallucinogen implies "hallucination producer," so each of these terms implies a slightly different meaning with varying degrees of either negative or positive connotation. YMMV.

Of course, the deliriants (anticholinergics) and nerve gases and other poisons can cause brain impairment, but these drugs are not usually thought of as psychedelics.
 
I think that I'd say either anticholinergics or dizocilpine (MK801)--and maybe phencyclidine too, but generally not ketamine or dextromethorphan. The idea of 5-HT2a agonist psychedelics as psychotomimetics is pretty much obsolete.
 
Wikipedia says: "Ketamine and other NMDA antagonists such as PCP and MK-801 are considered to be the best available pharmacological models of schizophrenia to date." On the other hand someone told me that ketamine is tried as a treatment of schizophrenia like disorders.
 
A bit too much desoxypipradrol seems pretty bloody close.
Not sure if you would count that as a stimulant induced psychosis, or not, since in reality, any psychedelic experience is a psychosis of some sort or another.
 
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