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"When you get the message, hang up the phone." And then pick it up again?

Ismene said:
Saying hang up the phone when you get the message is as silly as saying it in real life. If you stopped answering your mobile phone when you'd had one message - what sense would that make? What about the thousand other messages you might recieve throughout the course of your life?

The phone is an essential part of life - never hang it up.
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in the past we didn't have phones and life went about with no issues. i think that you are wrong and phones (same as drugs) are only things that we choose to have because we like using them but they are by no means essential and may in fact impoverish our life experience in ways that we will never know.
 
Quantum Perception said:
Well Mckenna said psychs are trade-offs and not substitutes for other paths
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Are you sure? I know he definately said it's one thing sweeping the ashram for sixty years telling yourself that you're on the path to enlightenment, it's another taking mushrooms and being confronted with it twenty minutes later. I didn't get the impression he thought much of buddhism or hinduism - thought it was a big con game to sucker the poor and gullible.
 
max_ said:
i think that you are wrong
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I might be "wrong" for you max. But you have to accept that this is subjective and I'm "right" for me. I'm not sure whether it's a matter of "right or wrong".

Psychedelics arn't for everyone. Nothing is.

are by no means essential and may in fact impoverish our life experience

Nothing in life is essential other than food and water. For me, psychedelics are a very important part of my life. They certainly havn't impoverished my life.
 
Ismene said:
Are you sure? I know he definately said it's one thing sweeping the ashram for sixty years telling yourself that you're on the path to enlightenment, it's another taking mushrooms and being confronted with it twenty minutes later. I didn't get the impression he thought much of buddhism or hinduism - thought it was a big con game to sucker the poor and gullible.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSUQ0I2E01Q

Here he says that psychedelics are trade offs for other spiritual practices.
 
^^

But he's says they're completely different things tho.

To be honest I could only stand the first half minute, what do you think he means?
 
My experience has been that the more often you trip (especially if consecutive), the less you will get out of it. Tripping should be done as a special treat in an atmosphere where you will feel only good things I never advise going out in public, like many do today. Our tripping journeys, were always a bit on the spiritual side.

Of course, that is the past. I wouldn't even begin to know where to get the good LSD 25...if it even exists, anymore. Now, shrooms are different, but still the rule stands that when done daily for a period of time, your high dissipates greatly.
 
^^

Although at the start he says they're completely different and nothing to do with each other.
 
^That's the difference between substitution and trade off. For instance, you can substitute swimming in an indoor poor for swimming in an outdoor pool. But a trade off is a different activity all together. You trade of golf for swimming; but you cant substitute them. Its a trade because its still a sphere of activity but your trading one for the other. Like he said, they don't get you to the same place. But the combination of them is pretty useful.

Another example, i can trade u eggs for milk, but i cant substitute eggs for milk. (imagine egg-shakes or something lol)
 
I think one may "get a message" from psychedelics.
If your aim is only to get a message then laying off the pyschedelic until the message is thoroughly understood seems logical.
However not everyone is looking for messages.
Pleasure is the primary aim of psychedelics drugs for myself.
 
Quantum Perception said:
^ Like he said, they don't get you to the same place. But the combination of them is pretty useful.

Another example, i can trade u eggs for milk, but i cant substitute eggs for milk. (imagine egg-shakes or something lol)
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Ah, I get it now quantum :)
 
B9 said:
Pleasure is the primary aim of psychedelics drugs for myself.
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I think pleasure is highly under-rated. Particularly in the puritan west where "hard work" is praised beyond all else. The message you often get from Buddhists is "i've worked hard for 50 years, how can you compare that with taking mushrooms?". As if hard work by itself is some signifier of enlightenment.

Nice to see you back B!
 
Seems some people are assuming alot about buddists here, taking it is some sort of religion...which it really isn't (says I) thou in a way it is (says them...and you)

Buddism is to the mind what the abrahamic religions are to the heart..neither one excempt from the maddness that effects these areas...but there is an honest attempt with both these traditions to get it up and over..which I respect!

It's just like shamanism...there is (real work) in all these trditions that I respect, and a undertow back into maddness or all to typical (party-line) stuff that I don't respect. But that's all the crap-shot of a life lived (hopefully well)

Does this make any sense? My main point is that in all these traditions work has been done that can provide some guidance on ones own path (so you needn't feel compleatly alone..as a army of one) So that you can (humblely?) feel apart of a tradition that contains and incorportes you....but still not just compromised by conforming to a field that doesn't really match your own belief system.

Make Buddism (whatever) your bitch!
 
It's just with reading that book "Zig Zag Zen:Buddhism and psychedelics". On pretty much every page you've got some fucking buddhist saying something like "yeah, I used psychdelics when I was 17 once but then I realised you have to study buddhism to get anywhere really. Psychedelics are just a temporary thing whereas studying the Buddha is permanent". Just endless horseshit claiming how superior they are to psychedelics.

I wish there'd been just one person who said "Buddhism is just the smallest glimpse of what psychedelics can offer".
 
^I think we should focus on what Mckenna said about these being separate spheres of activity with some overlap.

Psychedelics are tools of mental and cognitive amplification. They can be used for many things. To say psychedelics are better then Buddhism is like saying a hammer is better then a house, it makes no sense.

Now some may mix the two and use psychedelics to reach mental states described in Buddhism, and they may have luck at it. But that's no reason to confuse the too and put them on the same level playing field.

It makes more sense to say Hinduism is better then Buddhism, or that stimulants are better then psychedelics. Things have to be in the same functional category to be compared like that.
 
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