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  • EADD Moderators: Shambles

When do pop music lyrics become poetry ?

mydrugbuddy

mydrugbuddy

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Feb 14, 2011
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The vagabond who's rapping at your door, standing
About here I'd say


Chelsea Hotel.

I remember you well in the Chelsea Hotel,
you were talking so brave and so sweet,
giving me head on the unmade bed,
while the limousines wait in the street.
Those were the reasons and that was New York,
we were running for the money and the flesh.
And that was called love for the workers in song
probably still is for those of them left.

Ah but you got away, didn't you babe,
you just turned your back on the crowd,
you got away, I never once heard you say,
I need you, I don't need you,
I need you, I don't need you
and all of that jiving around.

I remember you well in the Chelsea Hotel
you were famous, your heart was a legend.
You told me again you preferred handsome men
but for me you would make an exception.
And clenching your fist for the ones like us
who are oppressed by the figures of beauty,
you fixed yourself, you said, "Well never mind,
we are ugly but we have the music."

And then you got away, didn't you babe...

I don't mean to suggest that I loved you the best,
I can't keep track of each fallen robin.
I remember you well in the Chelsea Hotel,
that's all, I don't even think of you that often.

Leoanrd Cohen

I had never had any appreciation of poerty until i read the WW1 Ode to rememberance


They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.

for the first time I got it, the power and the rhythm of the words. Jut gotta find bit more i can 'get' now'
 
Can definitely be a blurry line. Kinda depends on how poncy your definition of "poetry" is though. There's plenty of bands/artists whose lyrics I regard as poetry and plenty of poetry I regard as dross. I will no doubt post a few examples later after a few more gins ;)

For now though, Leonard Cohen is definitely one of the more poetic songwriters. Other very obvious examples that are generally considered nearer poetry than pop off the top of me head would be Nick Cave, Jim Morrison and Bob Dylan - all are published poets like Leonard Cohen. There's a fuckload of other less obvious ones I could list but will wait till I've got a couple more drinks in me and some tunes playing to post examples with lyrics. Frankly it's often hard to resist cluttering up the Tunes thread with lengthy lyrics when a bit squiffy anyway - is one of the few effects of booze I genuinely enjoy: the increased sense of personal meaning to cherished songs.
 
Randy Newman, in Germany before the war, like many songs the written lyric does not impress the chilling reality of the subject, written in a park in Dusseldorf before a gig with Fritz Lang in mind, there is very little in the R and R tradition that is so Lieder.
 
Shambles said:
Jim Morrison
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There was a difference between Jimbos lyrics and his poetry tho - I think his lyrics were better than his poetry - his poetry was stuff like "Death and my cock are the world". I can't see that one going down on the GCSE syllabus... :)

I think the main difference is lyrics are meant to be sung while poetry is meant to be read.
 
Ya. His actual book of poetry was a bit wank in places but was mainly referring to his good stuff. No real need for me to go posting lyrics in this case as anybody with ears and brain knows the stuff that is properly good. But I will anyway ;)

(although i must admit i have a certain penchant for his death/cock stuff too =D)

A happy medium betwixt poetry and song of his imo...

Me and my -ah- mother and father - and a
Grandmother and a grandfather - were driving through
The desert, at dawn, and a truck load of indian
Workers had either hit another car, or just - i don't
Know what happened - but there were indians scattered
All over the highway, bleeding to death.


So the car pulls up and stops. that was the first time
I tasted fear. i musta' been about four - like a child is
Like a flower, his head is just floating in the
Breeze, man.
The reaction i get now thinking about it, looking
Back - is that the souls of the ghosts of those dead
Indians...maybe one or two of 'em...were just
Running around freaking out, and just leaped into my
Soul. and they're still in there.


Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding
Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind.


Blood in the streets in the town of new haven
Blood stains the roofs and the palm trees of venice
Blood in my love in the terrible summer
Bloody red sun of phantastic l.a.


Blood screams her brain as they chop off her fingers
Blood will be born in the birth if a nation
Blood is the rose of mysterious union
Blood on the rise, it's following me.


Indian, indian what did you die for?
Indian says, nothing at all.
Click to expand...

And one I'm fond of that maybe leans more to lyric than poem but still straddles both I'd say...

Before you slip into unconsciousness
I'd like to have another kiss,
Another flashing chance at bliss,
Another kiss, another kiss.

The days are bright and filled with pain.
Enclose me in your gentle rain,
The time you ran was too insane,
We'll meet again, we'll meet again.

Oh' tell me where your freedom lies,
The streets are fields that never die,
Deliver me from reasons why
You'd rather cry, I'd rather fly.

The crystal ship is being filled,
A thousand girls, a thousand thrills,
A million ways to spend your time;
When we get back, I'll drop a line.
Click to expand...

Not entirely sure I'd agree with the straight-up sung/spoken word lyric/poem idea, Issy. Is all about rhythm and metaphor imo. Both can work well in either form. I'll lay off the Morrisson stuff though now as it's kinda obvious to all and y'all either like it or don't. Will leave the best stuff for others to post and/or listen to and try to remember to post less obvious lyrics/poetry here rather than wherever I happen to be tune-spamming at the time :o
 
Lets not forget the immortal "In mute nostril agony" :D

Yeah - there is a rhythm to some poetry to isn't there. I do like the old Wilfred Owen stuff - particularly that period of his life when Seigfried Sassoon was helping him craft the poems.
 
There's rhythm in all poetry, Issy. Is kinda the definition of poetry: words with rhythm. Lyrics tend to have far weaker rhythm patterns than actual poetry but are also perhaps more free to explore other aspects of language as they don't have to conform to such rigid structure as "proper" poetry does.

No poetic lyric thread would ever be complete without a lil Ian Curtis so afore I go a-kip...

Procession moves on, the shouting is over,
Praise to the glory of loved ones now gone.
Talking aloud as they sit round their tables,
Scattering flowers washed down by the rain.
Stood by the gate at the foot of the garden,
Watching them pass like clouds in the sky,
Try to cry out in the heat of the moment,
Possessed by a fury that burns from inside.

Cry like a child, though these years make me older,
With children my time is so wastefully spent,
A burden to keep, though their inner communion,
Accept like a curse an unlucky deal.
Played by the gate at the foot of the garden,
My view stretches out from the fence to the wall,
No words could explain, no actions determine,
Just watching the trees and the leaves as they fall.
Click to expand...

<3
 
In a thread about poetry, an ungrammatical thread title.

I was going to say only in EADD but you'll probably find enough examples in the Guardian these days.

I blame Islam.
 
Ismene said:
There was a difference between Jimbos lyrics and his poetry tho - I think his lyrics were better than his poetry - his poetry was stuff like "Death and my cock are the world". I can't see that one going down on the GCSE syllabus... :)

I think the main difference is lyrics are meant to be sung while poetry is meant to be read.
Click to expand...

True. But 'Chelsea Hotel' works its magic both ways. Actually no, i think although it does work as fine poetry
"what do i know about that) as pop lyrics they ar astounding
 
StoneHappyMonday said:
In a thread about poetry, an ungrammatical thread title.

I was going to say only in EADD but you'll probably find enough examples in the Guardian these days.

I blame Islam.
Click to expand...

Trust you to get first marks in your grammar test. Here's a gold star. I knew the sentence wasn't right but couldn't be arsed correcting it. *my latest reply theremay have sounded a bit vitriolic, which wasnt entirely my intention. Although the grammar police do tend to be rather annoyig. Again i should re write but cant BFFA. See what mine fields you have opened now dam you, you Rotter and Scoundrel.
 
to answer the OP's question - "when stoned people listen to them and think it's 'totally deep bro''. Thus bob dylan.
 
Very true, I grant that he did some excellent songs but the level of reverence which he is accorded is well beyond his actual talent and smacks of right place, right time, strong personality. Most overrated artist in the history of popular music in my opinion.
 
Peter Doherty, Salome -

In the cold, coldest of nights
The fire I light, to warm my bones
I've had enough, of the dreadful cold
And from the flames, appears Salome

I stand before her amazed
As she dances and demands
The head of john the baptist on a plate

In the morning, shaken and disturbed
From under soft white fur
I see the dust in the morning bright sets the room alight
And by the telly appears Salome

I stand before her amazed
As she dances and demands
The head of Isidora Duncan on a plate
Oh, It's Salome
Oh, It's Salome

In the cold, coldest of nights
The fire I light, to warm my bones
I've had enough, of the dreadful cold
And from the flames appears Salome

I stand before her amazed
As she dances and demands
The head of any bastard on a plate


Peter Doherty is a poet through-and-through, and has been mainstream. So here's when pop music lyrics become poetry :)
 
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jancrow said:
Very true, I grant that he did some excellent songs but the level of reverence which he is accorded is well beyond his actual talent and smacks of right place, right time, strong personality. Most overrated artist in the history of popular music in my opinion.
Click to expand...

I think a lot of the revered artists from the 60's / 70's got that audience attention because there just wasn't a lot of artists around. It was fledgeling industry back then, and those artists that were prominent were really tied up with popular culture at the time so their supposed legendary status lives on in the heads of people who are into hippies and punk and rock etc. It always winds me up a bit, the amount of kids these days who bang on about pink floyd or dylan while completely ignoring the vast gamut of music around that is contemporary to their own generation.

Pop acts have become more and more disposable in the last couple of decades I think...which isn't a bad thing. Part of the appeal of music for me is the novelty of listening to new, fresh music, without necessarily caring who made it or even knowing what they look like.
 
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