What's the score with Ukraine?

[Bearlove]

The western RT that we get i think goes out of it's way to be comparatively accurate on its foreign news - if only to show up the state bias of bbc and western media; with an obvious focus on news that's embarrasing to the west. RT in actual russia is a different story i bet (probably the same as our Big Brother Corporation).

Al jazeera lost what little cred they had left on ME news at the time of libya (which their owners were well involved with)

As for the guardian being 'leftie' - it's a largely establishment-friendly type of left that is allowed and nurtured to 'prove' that the system works - sure they have some good articles that say truths (left if you like), but their editorial stance more often than not ends up supporting the neo-liberal position (or at least providing cover for it). Eg iraq, and various other 'humanitarian' interventions it supported.

Similarly most guardian articles on ukraine have been the same anti-russian propaganda as the rest of the media; although there has been a few sensible articles, like the couple i posted (phew the system works)

/edit Sammy G - ninja'd me

WHAT :D - RT is as fucked up as any new stations (as can be seen when the anchors quit live. Al Jazeera lost credability in 2009 (years before the 'Arab uprising / spring' - they are founded by Qatar). When a new station is funded by a political body - then surely you have to question their integrity ?

 

[mydrugbuddy]

i sit updated in my out of date information. I never really liked that newspaper, i allways found it too negative, depressing, and critical of everything. If i could ever be arsed buying and reading a broadsheet as they were back then it would be The Times, as it was more positive in its educational stance, or so it seemed to me,. Ive not bought a newspaper for years since aquiring an internet connection. I rarely read any online Guardian articles, unless its on a subject of particular interest to me.

 

[Vurtual]

@Bearlove - Sure RT is a state broadcaster - but it likes to embarras the west, hence in its western RT channels it often gives more information out than our stations do on various foreign issues (you must notice this if you compare to bbc on any day); it's different when the story's about russia and i'm sure it's different all the time in russian RT.

Btw the reporter that quit on air wasn't much cop anyway - the other one who didn't quit (Abby Martin) just expressed displeasure with russias policy, got to keep her job with full editorial independence (her show breaking the set is excellent btw). Sure they do this because programs like abby's (and max keiser and cross talk) are a thorn in the side of our media when they're trying to hush things up on a daily basis.

i don't support any state but you can get useful information by comparing the different country's channels i think

 

[Sammy G]

i don't support any state but you can get useful information by comparing the different country's channels i think

Absolutely. There's no such thing as agenda-free media, state-financed or otherwise. You just have to be aware of the agenda in question, and try to be discerning.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Is RT even really broadcast in Russia? I kind of assumed it was like their foreign service. Are the state news channels not called something like Russiya 1/2?

Obviously it's nowhere near impartial but it's a shitload better than the BBC imo.


Thanks for the links btw Vurtual.

 

[blondin]

Vice has some good reports....but its a very dodgy situ, the west promised Ukraine in the event of something like this happening they would protect it. IF they gave up their nuclear arsenal - which they did, so it puts 'us' in a rather precarious position.

 

[parttime crackhead]

'The West' doesn't want a scrap with Russia and Putin knows it. Regardless of what the actual situation is in Ukraine, Putin has totally used this to his advantage as another way to completely undermine America's apparent world dominance. The same with the Snowden thing. America were throwing their weight about mad style, having other countries ground planes etc, while Putin was sitting there laughing at them.

He's obviously not without his many terrible faults but he is simply so much better at this than the likes of Obama or the utterly useless David Cameron.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

He doesnt give a shit about any feeble economic sanctions or expressed sentiments of condemnation that the US or any other state impose. Russia does what it wants to do, but i guess so does the UK really in a feeble USA lap dog kind of way. The conservative government generally seem to stick two fingers up to all things EU.

Whilst im talking about the UK, how are you gonna vote on Scottish Independence if you dont mind going into that? My Dad is Scottish, and he's really weird about the whole subject, in that he refuses to even talk about it for some reason i dont understand. I think we are stronger together, and that it would be a terrible mistake for Scotland to split away, not that what i think has any bearing on anything, as i dont even live in Scotland and wont have a vote on it. And the Westminster politicians have been panicked into saying 'you cant share our currency if you do go independent'. Thats just a desperate bluff i reckon trying to unnerve Alex Salmond. But he held his nerve really well about that and called bullshit on it.

 

[parttime crackhead]

Re independence: I am 100% in favour of Scottish independence.

There is no chance of a Westminster government being much different than the one we have the now. Labour are the only other real option and they are almost as right wing as the current mob. The current Scottish government have already done a few decent things opposite to policies from Westminster, eg no NHS privatisation, free prescriptions, money to cover any "Bedroom Tax", no Uni fees etc. There's no reason to think they would do any different with more power and there's absolutely no reason to think Westminster will suddenly change.

Voting against your own independence makes absolutely no sense to me.

Someone summed it up nicely the other day, can't remember where I read it though - Imagine going to to vote in September and ticking the box that says "I want another country to make my decisions".

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Interesting opinions. If a majority of Scots think along those lines then there's gonna be one fuck of an upheaval. I think the vote will be very close with a big turnout.

I suspect that an independent Scotland could be economically successful, it could go like Norway who have become fabulously wealthy, and are one of the few countries billions of pounds into profits rather than billions of pounds into debts. Where would the splitting away of the UK end though ? Maybe Wales would want to try next, and then even some different counties in England could want to do it. London is allready a world unto itself anyway it seems to me, very seperate from other parts of the UK.

 

[Vurtual]

I'm all for Scottish independence - Scotland has consistently voted to the left of England forever pretty much (as has Wales) - it'd be nice to see that represented properly for once (ie not by neo-labour). Alex Salmond is a neo-liberal just like Labour are, but once there is a separate parliament proper socialist options would become more feasible to vote for (like socialist labour etc) - and i think would gain ground (cos imo they make more sense). Even if they didn't get enough votes to form a govenrment, their presence would surely be a good influence (imo). Having a more democratic (and i'd argue therefore more socialist) scotland on the border would be a good influence on the rest of the uk too.

Ultimately though i think the 'powers that be' won't let it happen one way or the other - they're certainly doing their best to scupper the independence vote (eg getting their mates who own insurance companies to speak against it to show 'business' is against it). Any socialist option that started gaining ground, whether in uk or not, would have the whole weight of the elite and their owned-media crushing down on it; either with media smearing (as they did with Tommy Sheridan (or Chavez/Ghaddafi/assange etc)), or just a straight up coup (as they had planned when Harold Wilson was getting too lefty (which wasn't even that lefty)). There's only so far the elite will let us get before they go back to just shooting us like in Peterloo. (but don't forget, 'we are many, they are few')

 

[StoneHappyMonday]

Re independence: I am 100% in favour of Scottish independence.

Someone summed it up nicely the other day, can't remember where I read it though - Imagine going to to vote in September and ticking the box that says "I want another country to make my decisions".

You've come a long way man.

There's only so far the elite will let us get before they go back to just shooting us like in Peterloo. (but don't forget, 'we are many, they are few')

Aye. But they've got the fucking guns.

Sorry I'm bored. And there's only so far you can go with Cif on the Grauniad.

Bye. Maybe.

 

[pinkpapaver]

Interesting opinions. If a majority of Scots think along those lines then there's gonna be one fuck of an upheaval. I think the vote will be very close with a big turnout.

I suspect that an independent Scotland could be economically successful, it could go like Norway who have become fabulously wealthy, and are one of the few countries billions of pounds into profits rather than billions of pounds into debts. Where would the splitting away of the UK end though ? Maybe Wales would want to try next, and then even some different counties in England could want to do it. London is allready a world unto itself anyway it seems to me, very seperate from other parts of the UK.

what about norn iron? this must scare the britainish people of norn iron. In fact, Crimea means as much to Russia as the Falkland isles to Bwitain. And there was me thinking they loved them 6 counties - a lot.

In other news, Norn Iron's richest man was a drug dealer. NEVER GET IN A HELICOPTER, ESPECIALLY ONE WHICH HAS BEEN ARRANGED BY nOEL eDMUNDS OF BEARD.

 

[eLW]

Hi! Happens what? Are u guys blind?

 

[mydrugbuddy]

what about norn iron? this must scare the britainish people of norn iron. In fact, Crimea means as much to Russia as the Falkland isles to Bwitain. And there was me thinking they loved them 6 counties - a lot.

In other news, Norn Iron's richest man was a drug dealer. NEVER GET IN A HELICOPTER, ESPECIALLY ONE WHICH HAS BEEN ARRANGED BY nOEL eDMUNDS OF BEARD.

Norn Iron is soo complicated and a whole different can of worms, that's the only reason i didnt mention that place.

 

[mydrugbuddy]

Hi! Happens what? Are u guys blind?

Im gratefull that its the Democrats in power atm rather than the Republican war-mongers. Broadly speaking they seem to prefer negotitation rather than declaring war at the drop of a hat.

 

[Shambles]

Where would the splitting away of the UK end though ? Maybe Wales would want to try next, and then even some different counties in England could want to do it. London is allready a world unto itself anyway it seems to me, very seperate from other parts of the UK.

Next to no chance of Wales wanting independence. Watched a thing about that just recently actually and, although support for independence has risen a bit, it's still more or less in single figures percentagewise. Must admit I tend to prefer the policies of the Welsh Assembly than I do of Westminster though. They don't have huge powers but they do at least seem to use them for the good of the people who live here. Not quite to the extent the Scottish Parliament does, but that's mainly cos the Welsh Assembly has a lot less power than the Scots. I think it's a happy medium at the moment. I can't really see an independent Wales surviving too well, but is nice that there is some level of wiggleroom in trimming the worst excesses of Westminster (who really do seem to only consider London in all policy making).

There's probably more appetite for Cornwall to leave the UK than Wales. Probably parts of the North of England too - can quite understand them feeling a bit left out and ignored. As for Scottish Independence, whilst I do think it's a bit of a shame to go splitting up the UK, I'm pretty sure if I lived in Scotland I'd be voting for independence given the extent of political differences. Can't be much fun being run from Westminster given they barely seem to realise the rest of England exists outside of London let alone whole other countries.

 

[BecomingJulie]

There's probably more appetite for Cornwall to leave the UK than Wales. Probably parts of the North of England too - can quite understand them feeling a bit left out and ignored. As for Scottish Independence, whilst I do think it's a bit of a shame to go splitting up the UK, I'm pretty sure if I lived in Scotland I'd be voting for independence given the extent of political differences. Can't be much fun being run from Westminster given they barely seem to realise the rest of England exists outside of London let alone whole other countries.

Shambles I am totally with you on this London-centrism thing. The bastards even wanted to nick our water for themselves, till they went off the idea when they found out that the unfamiliar (to them) E. coli in it would give them the shits! I certainly feel far more allegiance with somewhere like Sheffield or Birmingham, than I do with London.

It's not hard to imagine that many visiting foreign diplomats will see only London, with its functioning public transport systems and local services, and form the impression that the whole of Britain is like that. When the reality is that most of us have to make do with barely adequate infrastructure. I simply don't trust a London-based government not to sacrifice "Outer Britain" (not just the North, as though that were some monolithic entity; the Midlands, East Anglia and the West Country all get a pretty raw deal) for London's benefit. We're "just" Northerners, or "just" Simple Country Folk; second-class citizens, expendable if necessary to keep London sweet. This is how I feel and I'm an Englishwoman. I can't fully imagine what it must be like to be Scottish, Welsh or Irish and ruled over from somewhere that proudly admits to being a different country whenever it suits them .....

 

[Shambles]

Shambles I am totally with you on this London-centrism thing. The bastards even wanted to nick our water for themselves, till they went off the idea when they found out that the unfamiliar (to them) E. coli in it would give them the shits!

Someone from the Midlands talking about swiping water supply to someone who lives in Welsh Wales?!? Hypocrisy!!!

(i do believe we get out nice welsh water not from wales at all but from the midlands who happen to have swiped the local water - why this should be the case i have no idea but folk round here have been known to get quite stroppy about the lack of welsh water in wales... bits of wales anyway)

I am originally from London and still got plenty family there but having lived in various other parts of the UK the Londoncetrism is unmissable. It really is like the rest of the UK simply doesn't exist. Or doesn't matter. At least Wales, Scotland and Norn Iron get some level of devolved power but England's a fair size compared to London itself and really doesn't get a look-in either. I'd quite like to see a lot more power devolution cos it doesn't seem anywhere outside the Big Smoke gets a look-in otherwise. I know London brings in a big ol' chunk of the GDP but given how much investment it gets that's hardly a surprise. Leave the rest of the country to go to pot and it's no great shock that large sections of it are a bit of a wasteland.

 

[Uncle Robert]

Pro-Ukrainians surrounded by much bigger mob of violent pro-Russians.

Scary as fuck being one of those pro-Ukranians...

(http://youtu.be/ffYW3nlBwZk)
[video=youtube_share;ffYW3nlBwZk]http://youtu.be/ffYW3nlBwZk[/video]