I guess I meant tobacco
I can relate to what you describing @BK38
Alcohol is by far harder to quit because it's everywhere and accepted by society
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What's one drug-related myth you wish would finally disappear?
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I can relate to what you describing @BK38
Alcohol is by far harder to quit because it's everywhere and accepted by society 
4DQSAR
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It's certainly true that when you stop consuming alcohol, you see just how prevelent product placement is, for example. They really do push that 'legal, descent, honest and truthful' limitation to the limit. Product placement in films and TV programmes being the two examples I noticed. Or even 'dark patterns' where a logo is so recognized that it's mere outline is sufficient for recognition.
Indeed. Constant exposure in movies, in the street, in the homes. I myself have cravings when I am watching most of movies. Going to the bar after work with your buddies or having a beer at lunch is totally okay.
F.U.B.A.R.
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Although that is true to a certain extent, I reckon that heroin grips harder and quicker than anything else, and I've tried a few
Even though I would say that I'm addicted to acohol, I've never formed a physical dependance on it. When I can't afford booze, I just don't have any.
But that would be totally undoable with the gear.
However, nicotine is a fuckin bitch that I just can't control...
4DQSAR
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F.U.B.A.R.
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Their latest thing is to advertise non alcoholic beer in their brand. So the word GUINNESS shows up on the screen...but the 0.0 bit is tiny on the side.
4DQSAR
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I fear this is (possibly) anecdotal but when I made a complaint, the ads disappeared. On some social media people were selling 'microdoses' of psychoactives. So I simply pointed out this was clearly just people trying to sell ONE dose at a vastly inflated price.
Now I don't know if the Ads were just stopped within the UK or if they disappeared everywhere (I suspect the former).
The biggest ad-spend was a business who used the wife of Augustus Owsley Stanley III (he was killed in a car accident 15 years ago!).
I think THAT is what annoyed me the most. Owsley was NOT chemist of any stripe. All of his early product was in fact the work of Melissa Carghill then, later, she showed Nick Sands and Tim Skully the lab-notes. When Shuldin published his paper on DOM, Owsley famously just brought in the article and let the two others to 'figure it out'. But it shows us one thing - Mrs. AOS III understood the world has to kinds of people - those who do the work and those that take the credit.
Long ago I figured being in the former catagory was the better. Less competition.
Who the hell even knows who Melissa Cargill is (or was)?Northwesternparacelsus
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Marijuana and cociane and hard drugs are mostly sold in racially disparaging economically disenfranchised communities of minorities in America
Then why did the US govt go after speedboat and watercraft and motherships and buy lake America. I wouldnt believe the CIA never stopped wholesale cocaine to canada or Ryan wedding extreme sports air force sponsors in extreme sports.
4DQSAR
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Well, BECAUSE the CIA went so off book, the Senate established the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence (SSCI) on 19 May 1976. The House of Representatives followed suit on 14 July 1977 by creating the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence (HPSCI) and appointed a Director of National Intelligence i.e. ALL US intelligence agencies are overseen by the elected rather than the military.
Jay Claton is the current Director of National Intelligence although I freely admit I don't know just how much power he has.
Chances are that no conventional surface craft would be used to smuggle cocaine in this day and age. 'Narco submarines' have got very sophisticated, some being unmanned.
The legal loophole is classification of suspected surface vessels is that 'narcoterrorism' means the crews are in fact terrorists. How a drone can discern that a vessel is crewed entirely by 'narcoterrorists' isn't a secret I am privy to. I know some very senior officers resigned and that hearings are going on behind closed doors.
But if you want it in three words - Peter Brian Hegseth.
What those vessels were ACTUALLY transporting (if anything), I don't know. I suggest if it was in any way evidential in nature, we would know about it. But so far, no evidence even of smuggling has been offered. Not even a gram.Last edited:Northwesternparacelsus
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Honestly the government bodies are unusual. Why not just push it through a Texas ball club. The rangers and keep it on the books. Run by bushes. Former directors push back through fort Bragg or to east coast and have their magic cake. hey thats just circumstance. There are shell business more popular than unmanned submarine. Think economical. At $70/ g per weight the bushes could easily move to whole sale closer to $5000 a kilo and have used this for 20 years. A govt dept shouldnt mean a god damn thing. Oversight is one thing. Being able to see why sports teams have been used before is obvious. No need to name drop. I believe the submarine deserves captain. Hypothetically one gets built. Really. Too much work.
unodelacosa
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Right here. I knew that about AOS III. After all, he was a dance major studying ballet, while Melissa Cargill was the one with a degree in organic chemistry. She was the one behind a good portion of that orange sunshine acid from the 60s. And of course Nick Sands and Tim Scully were making batches of it for the Brotherhood of Eternal Love. That persisted until 1972 when the Brotherhood was dismantled by U.S. Federales, and so much for that. #wompwomp But AOS III and Melissa Cargill were never married…
As far as Pete Hegseth goes… well his days in Washington might be numbered now it looks like, but we'll see. I hope he doesn't get away with the murders he's committed under the guise of "protecting the U.S. from narcoterrorists". Why didn't they seize the shipment + arrest and charge the smugglers? I think it's because drugs were the ostensible reason for this bizarre act of lethal aggression overkill, but something else is at play here. Although it could be something like Hegseth wanting to play G.I. Joes IRL. I wouldn't put it past the guy who insisted on wasting millions in tax-payer dollars in renaming the Department of Defense into the Department of War. This alone indicates a lot about Trump's appointed Secretary of Defense. Goddamn, lil Heggy is such a fucking chode…
I sincerely hope he faces murder charges, is found guilty, and is put in federal prison for the rest of his adult life for being a murderous piece of shit. But it probably will never happen, just like Trump will never face consequences for being a child-molesting associate of Jeffrey Epstein. The world really sucks sometimes.Last edited:
unodelacosa
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Yes I actually can, and do from time to time. I'm not really into them, but once in a blue moon I might pop a perc or a fraction of an oxy. I have no tolerance, so it doesn't take much, and afterward I almost always am reminded why I don't care for using opioids recreationally. (It's boring and constipating and slows me down more than I care for; plus the wrong dose makes me nauseated, and I don't like being so itchy either).
Meanwhile I generally hate drinking and will avoid it 95% of the time. It's not for me. I'm much more of a fan of cannabis, personally, but different strokes for different folks, and it takes all types to make the world go round.chippermonk
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I'm similar. I mean, I really like opioids. I've been taking them for years, but never more than once or twice a week, never more than maybe one 5 mg oxy or hydrocodone, or 2g of kratom. Someone gave me a bottle of 80 5 mg oxys 8 years ago and I still have 25 of them, haven't even taken one in 6 months. But I still like them
The one that creeped up on me was kratom, though. I'm not sure why. I guess it feels a little more stimulating. Never really took it to excess but it was still kind of fucking with me. I think daily would suck with it
Alcohol I do like regularly, but not more than a drink or two. Cannabis I can't handle, even though it was my first drug and I used to love it.
In general, I just find that I enjoy moderation in everything that I take more these days . I was less moderate when I was younger
Dextro .45
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I have a theory about this
China 1800’s had not 1 but 2 Opium wars with England….China felt that opium was destroying and undermining their people, but with the great many battleships and English military they enforced their opium empire
Today China is using Fentanyl as “chemical warfare” against the western worlds, to undermine our economic, health care systems and causing untold pain & suffering…..as was done to them by the evil red-coats English Empire
Fentanyl being fully synthetic is extremely cheap and simple to manufacture across China in large laboratories and sent to the western world to poison our peoples, with “chemical warfare” Fentanyl being 100X more potent than Morphine
B.C. Canada has had the largest Fentanyl crisis is all of Canada. Why? Vancouver Canada is known for their astronomical Asian population……As its closest to Asia…..and where China can ship their tons of illicit Fentanyl
Fentanyl has no soul…..never tried it, but would agree. It could NEVER substitute to Diacetylmorphine’s euphoric warmth & pleasurable state of emotional comfort and pure bliss of being wrapped in Gods warmest blanket of euphoric pleasure.
F@ck that Commie Crap ….Fentanyl is commie poison and even the name I find offputting
Diacetylmorphine (Diamorphine) & Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) for IV injectable opioids and Oxycodone & Methadone for oral tablets. All four narcotics are extremely potent and effective opioid analgesic painkillers ….many with no dose ceiling, even the most extreme pain can be dealt with by taking OxyContin 160mg tablets + Oxy-IR 20mg X 6 to 8 daily as needed for breakthrough pain…..,paired with Ritalin 100mg or Zenzedi 30mg IR d-AmphetaminesLast edited:
4DQSAR
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I can only point out that while most people seem to think that the nitazenes are a new drug are unaware that the first recorded clandestine laboratory in Spain in 1966 and it appears the chemists quickly realized it was just far too toxic but it was discovered in and around the south east of the nation. Then the more famous example in Germany in 1987 during a severed 'heroin drought) and, once again, it was quickly abandoned.
Only then do we read of the case in Russia in which a brilliant but disabled organic chemist who could not find work syntheized a batch and for the first time (as far as I can work out) stuck with the toxicity problem. In the end it was dissolved in a low MW alcohol and using a long needle and syringe, a single cigarette could be produced that did not contain a fatal dose. It was still considered quite unpleasent BUT as with some other unusual opioids, did have a small group who had a preference for the stuff.
The fact that it appeared to be nothing more than a cheap unfiltered Russian cigarette meant that a bit like DMT, fans who had to wait 30 minutes for a bus or train could smoke a laced cigarette, get off there tits for 20 minutes and come down enough to continue their day. BUT finding that dose killed quite a few 'guinea pigs'. But smoking and alcohol abuse were and are so prevelent in Russia, if a user 'monged out', they usually wouldn't die and alcohol would be assumed. By all accounts it simply wasn't very profitable if only because a user needed to redose so often. There weren't enough users with enough money to go through a pack or two of the laced fags every day.
Only in 2003 was the infamous Morton-Thiakol case in which one Dr. Thomas K. Highsmith made a batch, broke 'rule 1', discovered his life was spiralling out of control and knowing no high-level distributors, asked the janitor! Sad story because he had enough money to get bail and to get onto a private methadone programme BUT etonitazene is that worst thing of all, it's a SUPERagonist i.e. there is no dose of methadone compatible with life that would ameliorate what I can only presume is a truly horrific AWS. So he took his own life.
I don't think it's a secret that all of the above was only possible because of this 1975 paper made the class a facile target https://sci-hub.st/10.1021/jm00237a024
Similarly, carfentanil laboratories seem to be turning up semi-regularly in Canada and my guess is that in the internet era, a decent organic chemist can produce carfentanil because a cheaper route to alfentanil was needed and just happened to generalize to related compounds. https://sci-hub.st/10.1021/acschemneuro.5b00137
I'm sure we all know the story of who, where and why α-methyl fentanyl and 3-methyl fentanyl turned up when it did or that because fentanyl is still a widely used opioid, there are dozens of patents each one optimized to bring down the price as much as possible. I'm sure if people look, they will quickly find the three-step 92% overall yielding optimization of fentanyl synthesis. How it uses an acid halide in place of a closely watched acid anhydride and (if memory serves) the use of an unusual selective reductive amination step where STAB in DCM N-alkylates the uncontrolled aldehyde without reducing the ketone.
But my point is that none of these highly-potent opioids originated in China. It's just that IN China, production of an explicitly controlled opioid carries the death penalty so dezocine, dihydroetorphine, pethidine, methadone and even tramadol and buprenorphine have all been redirected by organized criminal gangs. Such is the opiophobia within China (also still very common in India where the British grew opium a century ago) that users keep an extremely low profile. The US experience of mitragynine appears to mirror that of China with strict legal controls only being enacted in 2024.
I just think the fentanyl synthesis has been so telescoped that semi-skilled 'cooks' can make it from loophole precursors imported from China because they have the lowest prices and ask the fewest questions. If a precursor is controlled, within a week they will be offering a pre-precursor. No explaination of utility, it's up to the buyer to figure out how to make use of it. It's now accepted BECAUSE of it's low price. Just last week a BBC film crew interviewed a user who had just bought a $4 'bag' which they proceeded to vape. It's the fact that such people need to redose so frequently is why it's so profitable. That's why I mentioned etonitazene. The two seem to have a lot in common in terms of it taking several attempts and crucially, the right legal and political changes to push people into using it.
I have a hypothesis that the 'cociniro' still use the same three key precursors but that in Mexico, because those precursors are uncontrolled, there is a kind of Gongkai (公开) culture where tricks are shared on the pragmatic basis that ultimately, money is always the goal and the grey-market precursor manufacturers accept that knowledge is fluid and while yes, there certainly are examples of Chinese suppliers essentially selling 'kits' including synthetic protocols, the person who can produce at the lowest price will win (at least in the short term).
I can only presume the ONLY reason that 4-phenylphenapromide (4PP) and related haven't turned up yet is because fentanyl is still cheaper. Assuming that the raecemate is the target, it would 'only' be x30M and the most potent of the series (I'm CERTAIN of) is 4-phenyl-4-hydroxylphenapromide (4POP) would 'only' be x75M.
I do apolgise for the long read but I do help out some HR agencies whenever they need a nerd. I would be watching for 4PP turning up as a metric to see IF US measures to stop fentanyl production are working. AFAIK the two are more or less identical in every way so I wouldn't expect users to note the change.
There is a LOT of other novel scaffolds so to me it seems insane to so focus on fentanyl that IF someone made the conscious decision to produce a 'premium' product at a much higher price, it's quite likely it would take law enforcement a year to identify and of course by that point, the next 'premium' product replaces it.
I'm slightly annoyed that someone with 1 post will open up on how amazeballz some incredibly obscure opioid IS when at most all we have is it's analgesic activity in animal models. Since the 1960s there have been various stratergies to develop a less-abusable opioid but if a ligand turns up in one or two articles and 50+ years later someone just ASSUMES the qualitative activity and safety mirror such small studies, people will get hurt.
I absolutely agree with @Dextro .45 pointing out that medically, out of tens of thousands of potential opioid analgesic, only a few dozen are in use. It isn't a co-incidence that with only a few exceptions potency is less that x20 morphine. Something estimated to be x30000 morphine will be by definition an insummountable agonist i.e. even if a patient (or victim in cases of unprescribed use) is treated using the most potent antagonists available, it won't help. Something Janssen found (and abandoned) in the 1960s are now turning up and who knows why Janssen abandoned them?
