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What would happen if drugs were legalised Part 3. Marijuana

Student man you need to do some bloody research before you make some comments bro.

For starters. LEGALITY DOES NOT = INCREASED CONSUMPTION


It has been shown in numerous places around the world, portugal, holland etc that alot of people try it , sure ! But most dont continue use.. its the same with all drugs .. 90% of people will try it sure (in a legalised model). . but only something around 5% become users.. and less then 1% become addicted ! I will try to find these figures now.. but im stoned and in my office and cant be fucked right now.. i gotta work!

But..yeh.. everyone seems to think all of a sudden EVERYONE IS A STONER! Oh no! Chaos as mr ibis so ignorantly put it put it.. Its simply wrong. No.. there would not be an overall increase in use and bloody stoners everywhere.
 
^ I would say there would be an increase in use. I think our culture here is a lot different to other countries where legalization has been tried. You can't always extrapolate results from a few places and expect it to be the same everywhere else. For one, countries like Portugal and Holland are a lot more liberal in general then Australia and America and I think this could have an effect on the cultural changes we would see over time.
 
but i think when you start seeing the results from Holland, California Portugal combined, i think it points to that fact that even if we are culturally different we would expect to see similar results...

I think California would in particular share very similar cultural similarities, to think that we are that different that we would fall into a zombified stoner society is a little naive and possible ignorant to the realities of marijuana usage, the fact is, decriminalization to the point of legality has happened and there is no proof of the extreme negative affects that people claim would happen as happening, it wont happen in Australia, it wont happen anywhere.

of course, im also aware, problems will happen, just as they do now and have and will no matter what happens, im just saying it will not create greater than normal problems.
 
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As much of a weed lover I am I also forsee a noticable increas in use of marijuana.

I don't know of too many other countries where marijuana use is so widespread. We have quite a different drug culture to other countries. Most of my mates started smoking marijuana and drinking around the age of 12, and moved onto pills/speed/psychs at the age of 16-17. I can't think off too many Western cultures where this is so - thought I haven't seen the world yet :)

Hell, I'd even be happy with medical legalisation of marijuana. It just sickens me that such a beneficial drug is being completely ignored because of some (greatly missunderstood) side effects and the fact that it is psychoactive and therefore illegal - for some reason....I still haven't figured out a worthwhile one.

Coming from a daily bong smokers for the best part of my life (although a short one) I can see Marijuana legalization having a slightly negative (how slight is of course hard to say) impact on Australia. Most of these negative impacts are completely overriden by the crap that prohibtion brings with it, so in the end it's simply the choice between the current mess ( alcohol dominance) and a smaller mess.

I know what I would choose. Mother natures greatest gift <3
 
but i think when you start seeing the results from Holland, California Portugal combined, i think it points to that fact that even if we are culturally different we would expect to see similar results...

I think California would in particular share very similar cultural similarities, to think that we are that different that we would fall into a zombified stoner society is a little naive and possible ignorant to the realities of marijuana usage, the fact is, decriminalization to the point of legality has happened and there is no proof of the extreme negative affects that people claim would happen as happening, it wont happen in Australia, it wont happen anywhere.

of course, im also aware, problems will happen, just as they do now and have and will no matter what happens, im just saying it will not create greater than normal problems.

Ha ha, while I think there would be increased use, I'm not foreseeing a zombie society by any means. I just believe there would be an increase in health effects, but also a big reduction in people having their lives turned upside down by an arrest that can threaten career, travel and other opportunities.

I am for marijuana legalization, I would like to see more funding put into mental health though and I think this is something important that needs to happen with or preferably way before drug legalization.
 
Interesting reads.


I'm not suprised that heavy alcoholism from 40day binges can give such symptoms but I was more referring to people trying alcohol once and having adverse reactions.

This is why I don't think the two relate, people like MrBlonde just trying weed can make them fully freak out, I haven't seen or heard of this reaction with alcohol only from heavy abuse over an extended period of time. Although I know this can happen with cannabis but I meant from just having minor doses.

Sorry, I should've been more specific.
I have a friend who doesn't drink often, but on two separate occasions I've had to call an ambulance for him because he drank a lot, and had what I can only refer to as a psychotic episode mixed in with a seizure. He does have a history of depression, and has spent time in a psych ward, but it can happen, even if it is rare.

A question I haven't seen raised is; if drug A is legalised/decriminalised, what happens to the people currently in prison, or who have a criminal record due to possession? Are they released/have their record erased, or do they remain as one last relic of a system which doesn't work?
 
The change in laws won't affect there sentence. Because at the time of offense it was still a crime.

@Triparrr
I'm not saying everyones gonna become massive stoners, but I personally think it would be a noticable increase.
 
''The community doesn't concern itself as much with it, but it's not uncommon for our clients to be able to give up what are called the harder drugs but to struggle with cannabis,'' Judge Roger Dive from the Parramatta Drug Court says.

Link.

I thought this was interesting, there is also another article on the site with an in-depth discussion of the drug court, how it works and it's successes.

I just thought I'd post that in response to people who scoff at cannabis addiction, I have a lot of respect for this man and the work he does in the drug court and I think we need to see more courts like this and more judges like him.
 
A lot less people would be in jail, a lot less people would get screwed with criminal records, drug cartels would make less money, heaps of tax would be generated. Obviously more people would try it but I don't think the amount of regular or habitual users would increase much, and the quality of life people dependent on cannabis could provide for themselves and their families would improve due to reduced cost of the drug.
 
Why are people here talking about mental illness being linked with marijuana? I thought there was no studies which confirmed a link or any strong evidence suggesting that marijuana causes or worsens mental illness.
 
Because a lot of us have been around long enough to know at least 1 or 2 friends who developed some sort of mental disorder and also happened to be chronic heavy users. It really not that much of a surprise that a drug that causes paranoia and anxiety might just perhaps affect these centres of the brain negatively. Not everyone ends up in a psych ward pulling finger nails out but to think that weed is benign for all users is naive.

It is wise to take scientific studies with a grain of salt, there are always studies that produce conflicting results to any theory, they even exist disproving tobacco causes lung cancer.
 
There's some debate on whether nicotine is carcinogenic. I believe there was a study that indicated carcinogenicity, but I can't find it atm. While nicotine is very toxic, the MSDS sheets don't list it as a possible or probable carcinogen.

wiki

The carcinogenic properties of nicotine in standalone form, separate from tobacco smoke, have not been evaluated by the IARC, and it has not been assigned to an official carcinogen group. The currently available literature indicates that nicotine, on its own, does not promote the development of cancer in healthy tissue and has no mutagenic properties.
 
OK I've said before on this thread that I don't believe legalisation would increase use, and linked to a study. BUT now I'm going to link to a study that points the other way:
"Assessing How Marijuana Legalization in California Could Influence Marijuana Consumption and Public Budgets" from the lovely people at RAND corporation.

The general thrust is - price could drop by up to 80% (before tax), and consumption could increase by up to 100%. As the report rightly (IMO) states - the level of taxation will influence grey/black market supply. And they suggest savings of roughly$300M per year on enforcement.

So I'm beginning to waver on my earlier assertion that demand wouldn't change with legalisation. Haven't read all the Rand report yet...
 
Legalising marijuana doesn't solve this problem, thats not the point, it's about reducing harm which IMO would be the case if marijuana were legalised and its sale was restricted to those 18 years and over.

It was much easier for myself and my peers to get weed compared to alcohol during high school, much easier. Just food for thought.

This is definitely true, weed is incredibly accessible to youngins, whereas the only way one could get alcohol back then would be through older brothers/mates/your local hobo - plus its way cheaper, depending on how much you smoke though I spose.

If it is legalised/decriminalised I hope they take a lesson from tobacco and ban smoking in public. Watching people spark up as they roll down the street is crass and not an example I want to set for my children. The smoke pollution in my personal space is a pet peeve and it is not that difficult to smoke in private before venturing out. (Hell isn't that what pot smokers do now any way?) There is not added health benefits to smoking shops like Amsterdam. There should be only a visible retail arm and not a social scene.

This on the other hand I disagree with. While I can see sense in a ban on smoking in public areas, if you're going to disallow specific weed-smoking venues as well, then I'd like to see every pub in the country shut down also, as I feel these set an example which is just as 'crass,' if not more so, than that of a weed cafe.

I think benefits would be realised far more in countries like the US, where cannabis-policing expenses exceed ours dramatically, and as such has led to a situation which is best described as ridiculous.

Additionally, a point that's been brought up time and time again is that society would feel some sort of a drain, due to on average more people becoming stoners, and this leading to laziness, etc. I don't see much sense in this, for a number of reasons.

First, although predominantly weed is associated by many with causing laziness, such hasn't been evidenced in any actual study which I have caught wind of, and I've seen plenty of evidence to the contrary. For myself and others, weed has had a motivational effect. It's something to look forward to at the end of the day/week, and that alone is enough to make me work harder, and probably overall be more successful to date, than had I never picked up smoking (can't really ever be wholly sure of this though, obviously). That said, weed's psychological addiction can be powerful. One would assume that proper education and services in place could address the problem of lazy, psychologically addicted stoners to make the overall situation less detrimental on society than it is currently (which overall is probably pretty minimal anyway - in the whole scheme of things I'm doubtful weed is a major contributer to the number of dole bludgers and so on - it's definately a factor, but there's plenty of lazy fucks out there who are too stupid/brainwashed to want anything to do with weed).

Moreover, why is everyone even jumping to the conclusion that the legalisation of weed, or any drug for that matter, would even lead to a significant increase in use? How many of your parents/grandparents/other people you know would begin using if something became legalised? What proportion of people who do not take drugs choose to do so solely because they are illegal? Very few, I believe. I think the overriding reasons are more in the realm of image/stigma attached to the drug, as well as the health consequences. So from this I gather that there are only two factors that could lead to increases in use. The first would be from people becoming better educated about the health consequences of the drug, along with further research being conducted on the health consequences, and finding that the health consequences are lesser than previously imagined, should that turn out to be the case. The other is that if over time, due to legalisation, the stigma behind the drug is eliminated from generation to generation. This could become especially significant should social scenes develop and it become not only 'not uncool', but cool. However, from memory, 7% the Netherlands population are smokers, and something like 7.2% of US population are - legalisation, in the long term at least, doesn't appear to increase use, cultural differences aside (after reading further into the thread, the abstract ayjay posted on page 2 affirms this).

Lastly, a societal drain due to increased prevalence of mental illness is definitely a potential issue. However if use doesn't increase, or only does so slightly, as described above, and education & an age requirement were implemented, this should be easily offset, without even bringing in the tax revenue which can additionally contribute to such an offset. Plus we don't have any solid facts on just how marijuana leads to mental illness or in what percentage of people such will occur - more research definitely needs to be conducted on the subject.
 
(after reading further into the thread, the abstract ayjay posted on page 2 affirms this).

What about the article he posted on this page? He has changed his opinion on this issue.

I believe there are a lot of people who would start smoking if it was legal; it would lose a lot of the stigma, the legal consequences and availability would increase. I hate giving anecdotal evidence, but the number of times I've had arguments about drugs where it boiled down to 'it's illegal' being the main thing negative about the substance is ridiculous.

Also, I would like to see how the rate of people smoking marijuana would either increase, decrease or plateau over a few generations. The generations around when legalization first hits might not change that much, but over time I think use would start to increase a lot.
 
What about the article he posted on this page? He has changed his opinion on this issue.

I believe there are a lot of people who would start smoking if it was legal; it would lose a lot of the stigma, the legal consequences and availability would increase. I hate giving anecdotal evidence, but the number of times I've had arguments about drugs where it boiled down to 'it's illegal' being the main thing negative about the substance is ridiculous.

Also, I would like to see how the rate of people smoking marijuana would either increase, decrease or plateau over a few generations. The generations around when legalization first hits might not change that much, but over time I think use would start to increase a lot.

+1 on all points ( > ' ')=o
 
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