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What would happen if drugs were legalised Part 3. Marijuana

^ I think going from illegal to legal may have a few stops along the way before smoking in the streets, such as only in certain areas etc...

Those studies you mention are based in Amsterdam, right? It would be interesting to see if there is a cultural difference in take up and other societal effects between here and there.
 
Everyone has spoken about the main points that I would have so all I have left add is this

Pro: less city violence ecause everyones either too happy or lazy to get involved
Con: society would suffer to an extent because pot really is the number one ambition killer in the world

for the arguement of pyschosis, any substance can cause it. There are more people admitted into hospital for alcohol related psychosis than there is for pot. I for one have had personal experience with such thing. Just like pot, alcohol won't cause such problems with everyone. it always stems down to those who can't control thier habbit and intake. To me it's not the drug of choice in any matter that's the problem, but rather the morons who over do it.

In reality, if you kept smoking to a weekend thing much like most do with their booze, there would be minimal problems. Daily bong smokers are exactly the same as alcoholics IMO.
 
^ In some cases though control of a habit has nothing to do with psychosis; I don't smoke at all anymore and have had psychosis from just smoking a couple of joints. I am probably very prone to it, just like some people are probably prone to alcohol or other substance induced psychosis and don't need to 'over-do it' to experience an episode.

I completely agree with your point about keeping it under control; marijuana may be physically pretty safe but mentally even if you aren't experiencing psychotic symptoms it probably isn't a good idea for most people to smoke it everyday. I feel pretty strongly about this because I know a couple of people who are wasting their lives getting stoned everyday and I am trying to pull my brother back from this path to no avail. :\
 
hyroller said:
I don't think there'd be a huge difference, in all truth.

8o
Click to expand...

+1

the world is watching California......i believe a world wide domino effect will kick in after California start bragging about the millions,,,maybe billions in tax the collect of it
 
Mr Blonde said:
^ I think going from illegal to legal may have a few stops along the way before smoking in the streets, such as only in certain areas etc...

Those studies you mention are based in Amsterdam, right? It would be interesting to see if there is a cultural difference in take up and other societal effects between here and there.
Click to expand...

OK the study I had in mind:
Objectives. We tested the premise that punishment for cannabis use deters
use and thereby benefits public health.
Methods. We compared representative samples of experienced cannabis users
in similar cities with opposing cannabis policies—Amsterdam, the Netherlands
(decriminalization), and San Francisco, Calif (criminalization). We compared age
at onset, regular and maximum use, frequency and quantity of use over time,
intensity and duration of intoxication, career use patterns, and other drug use.
Results. With the exception of higher drug use in San Francisco, we found
strong similarities across both cities. We found no evidence to support claims
that criminalization reduces use or that decriminalization increases use.
Conclusions. Drug policies may have less impact on cannabis use than is currently
thought. (Am J Public Health. 2004;94:836–842)
Click to expand...

As far as smoking in the streets - I'm already doing that - I just don't want to be a criminal because of it. It's enough to make me paranoid!

As far as "amotivational syndrome" and daily smoking - really that comes down to when and how much, as well as personal limits. I certainly know plenty of over-achieving daily smokers. %)
 
Some of you guys must socialise in some morally impressive circles. I know for a fact that if weed was legalised tomorrow more than half of my friends who don't do drugs would suddenly want to try it. Even my mum would ring me up and ask the best way to seal the cone on top of a bucket. (Which by the way would be a big change... I'd be able to once again purchase a proper cone at the local tobacco shop :( ).

The only thing I could compare it to would be all my mates in the UK who showed such restraint when mephadrone was legal. :\
 
^There's trying it, and continuing to smoke it. Lots of people have smoked pot at least once - but only a small percentage of that number keep on smoking it.

I'm glad you think it is morally impressive to not let the law get in the way of your choices - me too!
 
yeah Busty i agree that the mephedrone debacle in the UK shows quite well what attitudes towards 'quasi-legal' or decriminalized substances are - even if there's some evidence of danger. Legality can and does make all the difference in the minds of the masses.
 
Im going to go out there and say so many of the problems listed here are a consiqunence of prohibition.

The first one, is profit. Strains seen to be high in yeild and more potent are favoured. This is unnatural and its the reason why phsycosis is rearing its ugly head. Some soceitys dont even consider bud to be a final product, hashish has a very long tradiation and it have a high CBD content is no accident. Research indicates that people with these dispositions seek out and use pot to reduce their symptoms (even if they do become worse after use, the short term releif is what is desired). They seek it out whether the laws say they can or not. The amount of times ive heard a pot head try and tell me that 'weed is weed, man' is an indication of how skewed the market is. They dont realise what there is more to it then Indica.

The second one, access. Some drugs are more forgiving then others on a growing brain. Teens and kids should not be smoking. But they are. It doesnt take a genious to see this, one must simply exaimine the main lurkers/posters of CD. Kids, asking how to mask the pot smell from there parents.

Education. If your pot came with a warning label, dosage guide and education material, people could make informed choices instead of thinking "shit, i didnt turn into an axe murder, everything they told me was bunk"and choof away all day everyday.

Crime. Pot sale drive the black market. Simple as that. Every cartel makes their initial financing money from pot. People sprout out numbers about people who they know who have had gone crazy from the devils weed. Well look at the amount of people who have had there sane lives destroyed by possesion and related charges. This is a cycle that has put entire generations of familys into poverty and contributes to the growing underclass.

It shits me when people single out pot heads as a reason against prohibition. Have you ever considered that soscio economic conditions play a role in people discovering and seeking out/being exposed to these substances? I know plenty of loosers who arnt pot heads. And i know pot heads who arnt loosers. Not that i condone living your life in a haze, just as i dont condone living your life drunk.

Think 60 years back. Go back to a time before Nixon fucked us all over and you will see a society that - shock horror - had a legal, unregulated cannabis market. There is no apocolypse to forsee.

Legality currently means ok to the masses. I agree. But this is a society that has been conditioned to think that. "Just say no" The same way it can be reconditioned to consider all intoxicating substances as potencially deadly. Which, if you look at binge drinking, is the required mind-set to move us forward whatever the future holds.

Oh and lastly, to the person who said pot laws have nothing to do with hemp. In th US, one of the aims of legalisation is to allow hemp production again. Cannibis Sativa (hemp) is outlawed, even though it contains only trace amounts of THC. And the reason why they are treated the same is simply because they see it as being soft on drugs (feels like it, smells like it, tastes like it... umm no high though). Plus its confusing for law enforemnt, and they were worried gangs would infiltrate farms and grow potent weed in fields of hemp.
 
But i digress...

Legalisation set in motion a new gold rush...

Growers will go legit. Dealers too. Potheads could get jobs trimming bud. Botanists who have always stayed away because of the stigma will innovate. Strains wont be just clustered around curing pain or yeild, there will be strains for every mood and every occasion (dutch people smoke outdoor sativa strains mostly. skunk or potent stuff is consumed mostly by foriegners)

Business will invest. The industry will be modernised. Home delivery, bars, pubs, tasting and conissour types will mature...

Basically everything that is happening today in the US or has happened in other countrys. The market is so big and diverse.
 
Plenty of legal hemp farms exist in Australia, particularly Qld and WA (someone has to cloth fucking hippies). You still don't find it a hugely successful crop, in fact they are actually running at a loss last I heard http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/01/17/2140544.htm

I can't imagine the same governments that are desperately trying to eradicate smoking in public places suddenly allowing cannabis "pubs" where people congregate to smoke weed. Workplace health and safety for one would make it impossible to staff due to passive smoking.

Any laws that are introduced will come with some sort of restrictions, be them licences to possess or grow, or restrictions on the potency of the weed. There will always be people who do not want to be registered as a drug user and would be happy to still fund a black market. Although crime gangs do have their fingers in the production side of weed, I can't remember the last time I had to buy off a bikie or another undesirable. The current black market is propped up with plenty of otherwise law abiding citizens.

A small rise in tax revenue will be the only positive affect on the economy. I really don't see those pot smokers suddenly finding a renewed work ethic once weed is legalised and suddenly wanting to cash in. If you are not smart enough to get off the couch and clean your bong once a week why would you suddenly be inspired to get a legit job now? Manual bud trimming? We aren't fucking China, more likely a mechanical harvester would do that job like any other commercial industry.
 
As everyone has pretty much covered the things I was gonna talk about I'll keep this short.

I think alot of people would start smoking weed casually, not loving it, just for a change up from drinking. I personally believe that if weed was legalised it would still not be the drug of choice and everyone would still love their alcohol.

The psychosis argument is one that baffles me, I know that it can happen, but I've never seen it, I've seen people freak out but never gone truly psycho (which is ironic because I have seen this from MDMA which people refuse to believe).

But people like you MrBlonde who have suffered such an episode seem to recover and then choose not to smoke again. Once someone found out their body reacts so badly to THC you avoid trying again.

To whoever said Alcohol causes psychosis wtf? Some people get aggressive it's got nothing in comparison to psychosis and I'd love to see some evidence if it exists?


I now wanna bring up a point people may not have thought of.
What do you think the affects would be on the food market? Obviously the snack market sales would go through the roof and 7/11 Shares would go right up (something I actually might invest in thinking about this)

But I'm more referring to weed food. Can you see at your local bottle-o/weedery selling hash cookies and other hash food. I can see this being a problem, I've seen the combo of hash food meets the munchies, it's not a pretty sight and have had a friends friend end up in hospital from such efforts. It's probably not gonna be a huge problem but I can definately see potential for abuse.

I do believe that their is a very real chance that weed could actually be legalised in ten years depending on the level of success that California has and how quickly the rest of America follows.

I really wish our government would be active and beat the rest of the world to it. There will be downsides but I think the good outweighs the bad with this drug... I just hope the world has enough self control when something so seemingly harmless becomes so accessible.
 
thestudent14 said:
To whoever said Alcohol causes psychosis wtf? Some people get aggressive it's got nothing in comparison to psychosis and I'd love to see some evidence if it exists?
Click to expand...

you want evidence... here's a couple of links.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289848-overview
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/528487_2
http://www.psychtreatment.com/alcohol_related_psychotic_disorders.htm

That's all i can be bothered looking up for now. If you still don't believe me then you're a lot less intelligent then i gave you credit for.

From personal experience, i have two things to add. First, my uncle became a heavy drinker after he found out he was adopted and that his real parents had died years before. After 12 months of chronic drinking he began suffereing from delusions and hallucinations. No one could talk to him. It was like communicating to a five year old child playing with imaginary friends, waiting for his lost 'puppy' to return. It got worse than that but I feel it's too personal write up here.

Second, my best mates dad is a nurse, can you take a guess at what he spends all day every day doing? He has to look after patients who are suffering from alcohol-induced psychosis. Some of the stories we've been told are really quite fucked up. The one that always sticks to my mind, was a 26yo male who believed that ice-men from pluto had abducted him several times, and the scars he had were from them.

This is all coming from someone who takes LSD and has heard the outrageous myths surrounding it's 'permanent tripping' affects. Why you wouldn't believe in it is truly beyond me.
 
The psychosis argument is one that baffles me, I know that it can happen, but I've never seen it, I've seen people freak out but never gone truly psycho (which is ironic because I have seen this from MDMA which people refuse to believe).

But people like you MrBlonde who have suffered such an episode seem to recover and then choose not to smoke again. Once someone found out their body reacts so badly to THC you avoid trying again.
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Yeah once you find out you react that way it's best to avoid it, to be honest I had psychotic symptoms separate from smoking weed, tried smoking weed a few times again after that which was a really bad idea and learned the hard way.

I'm not sure what's baffling you, if you are wondering what it's like it's probably really different for everyone but for me psychosis usually involves incredibly irrational beliefs that come out of fucking no where, believing I'm not in control of my thoughts and they are being manipulated and some really odd and bizarre behavior that relates to the paranoia. Smoking weed for me usually results in a psychosis for a good few days at least now. :\

My most recent episode was a result of a medication I was prescribed by psychiatrists funnily enough, it lasted for a good month at least and I still suffer the occasional anxiety attack now from it but the paranoia has subsided.

As for alcohol and psychosis, yeah it does happen I can't be bothered to pull up a source now but I may do so later on.
 
heythatsmybike said:
you want evidence... here's a couple of links.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/289848-overview
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/528487_2
http://www.psychtreatment.com/alcohol_related_psychotic_disorders.htm

That's all i can be bothered looking up for now. If you still don't believe me then you're a lot less intelligent then i gave you credit for.

From personal experience, i have two things to add. First, my uncle became a heavy drinker after he found out he was adopted and that his real parents had died years before. After 12 months of chronic drinking he began suffereing from delusions and hallucinations. No one could talk to him. It was like communicating to a five year old child playing with imaginary friends, waiting for his lost 'puppy' to return. It got worse than that but I feel it's too personal write up here.

Second, my best mates dad is a nurse, can you take a guess at what he spends all day every day doing? He has to look after patients who are suffering from alcohol-induced psychosis. Some of the stories we've been told are really quite fucked up. The one that always sticks to my mind, was a 26yo male who believed that ice-men from pluto had abducted him several times, and the scars he had were from them.

This is all coming from someone who takes LSD and has heard the outrageous myths surrounding it's 'permanent tripping' affects. Why you wouldn't believe in it is truly beyond me.
Click to expand...

I can't agree with you enough on this subject

My mother is a batshit crazy alco, has never touched another substance in her life and never suffered from any mental illness until she started drinking heavily.

I suffer from psychosis if I drink on a daily basis and I have known/seen so many psychotic alco's over the years...

Most drugs will cause psychosis if abused and alcohol certainly is one of them. Some people are more prone to this than others and this is probably why some people are more likely to agree and others will disagree on this subject. I have to admit that I do know plenty of happy daily drinkers. I also know people in their 80's who have smoked heavily since their teens. Every substance effects everyone differently

Fact
 
Interesting reads.


I'm not suprised that heavy alcoholism from 40day binges can give such symptoms but I was more referring to people trying alcohol once and having adverse reactions.

This is why I don't think the two relate, people like MrBlonde just trying weed can make them fully freak out, I haven't seen or heard of this reaction with alcohol only from heavy abuse over an extended period of time. Although I know this can happen with cannabis but I meant from just having minor doses.

Sorry, I should've been more specific.
 
^ Ah I see what you are talking about now. I don't think I have ever heard of alcohol psychosis in that context either. It is a different ballpark we are talking about then.
 
Sorry mate didn't mean to jump down your throat like that, but my original post was comparing daily smoking habbits to daily drinking habbits
 
one thing I noticed in Amsterdam and would be true if it was legalized in Australia, is that they care about the different types of marijuana, in Australia i never knew the difference between Sativa and Indica and that they can give different effects, this seemingly pointless observation has big impact, because Sativa gives more a head high, where Indica gives a more body stone, certain people should really stick to a certain strain, then there are crosses etc, im basically saying that was touched on above, legalization could reduce certain issues that we now have with marijuana via education, people knowing what they are smoking, what it does to them etc.

of course damage is still going to be done, and these whole threads are really asking about the consequences
but we need to forget about, that, and look at the consequences now of the War on Drugs, and we need to ask our-selfs IS IT WORTH IT ? could it be any worse if instead of hoping people are not going to take recreational drugs to avoid "issues" that we infact control the recreational drug usage, regulate it offer education, health services that would be directly financed via the recreational drug industry ? the money that would be saved simply from diverting the funds that are put into fighting drug use, would be significant in forming these types of services, let alone the profit that would come from it.
if drug use is happening, has been happening and will continue to happen, we have to take a look at the policies of simply trying to get people to say No and to punish the people that dont. it has not worked, it isnt working and it aint going to work!
 
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