What would happen if drugs were legalised Part 1. MDMA

[L3inad]

My main concern is the contentious issue of neurotoxicity. Until a more final word can be placed on the mental effects of MDMA in the long term I think it's best scientists continue to research and the drug remains illegal.

We as consumers though can influence MDMA in this country more than we think. It is simple; do not buy pills which do not contain MDMA. Educate your friends as to what their money is going towards (certainly 99% of the time thesedays; NOT MDMA!)

Well thats the whole issue. Currently there is no research being done into the long term effects of MDMA and any neurotoxicity it might have, and hasnt been for quite some time. It is illegal after all (I could well be wrong here, if anyone knows otherwise please do correct me)

We will never know exactly how bad MDMA is or isnt until actual reasearch is done, which wont happen until legalisation. Which is sad, because for it to be legalised there would have to be scientific evidence to show exactly what it does. Good old catch 22, its a bitch.

There is still debate as to whether MDMA is neurotoxic at all, although its a fair assumption to say that it is, but very slightly. Definately not enough for myself to consider it an issue when using. And I'm VERY picky about what does or does not enter my body.

@ Mr Blonde. Thanks for the actual figure. Even 17 is an amazingly low number considering how widespead its use is, and its availability. If MDMA was available in a similar manner, you would epect to see a number well below that of 4mmc because of its far safer characteristics. And compare all this to alcohol which is legal, and obtainable anywhere and everywhere and kills many many more people than that, and really theres no reason at all why MDMA should be illegal when far worse substances are considered the norm and socially acceptable.

 

[marklar_the_23rd]

there would probably be a rise in use and associated negative effects, which will level off and then go down as society adjusts to having mdma available all the time. just like when you turn 18 you're suddenly drinking way too much all the time, which levels out as you realise a two day hangover is not fun.

making it legal is one thing, but the general public are fucking stupid, so without education on what is safe and unsafe use, making it legal could cause some problems due to over use.

if it was going to be legalised i think perhaps a "license to consume" is needed - i would have no problems attending a class based on actual science about what happens to your body when you take substances, what combinations are bad and why they are bad, etc etc etc.

 

[infectedmushroom]

Well thats the whole issue. Currently there is no research being done into the long term effects of MDMA and any neurotoxicity it might have, and hasnt been for quite some time. It is illegal after all (I could well be wrong here, if anyone knows otherwise please do correct me)

We will never know exactly how bad MDMA is or isnt until actual reasearch is done, which wont happen until legalisation. Which is sad, because for it to be legalised there would have to be scientific evidence to show exactly what it does. Good old catch 22, its a bitch.

Good point but I was just answering the question with the assumption that the government is considering making it legal and therefore is open to study and scientific research. This is a hypothetical afterall (hopefully not for much longer. )

 

[Sameria]

Even with top notch education from a young age there will still be reckless users out there. There isn't really much we can do about that.

People will always take risks, all we can do is minimise the risks as much as possible and give them credible information.

Legalisation with restrictions and support services similar to alcohol is a much better alternative to the mess that is prohibition.

The Mephedrone debacle was a bit different to what I imagine proper legalisation would be like. From what I gather, the majority of Mephedrone users knew very little of the dangers of Mephedrone and because it was "legal" consumed it recklessly. If there was widespread (and most importantly accurate) education/information about Mephedrone I'm sure a lot of people's patters of use would have changed.

I guess only time will tell what predictions are accuarate. I hope I live long enough to look back on this thread and reflect

 

[Jordan`]

Isn't there a government body that allows for tightly restricted MDMA research?

 

[L3inad]

Isn't there a government body that allows for tightly restricted MDMA research?

If there is I'd love to hear about it.

Maybe I could work for them as part of my 4th year placement.

Self trials would be fuckin sweeeeeeeeet

 

[Jordan`]

I'd say you would have to be fully qualified in your respective field with a lot of experience, would be cool though doing research on some of your favourite illegal compounds!

 

[De quincy]

My take on this whole topic is that we’ve done the research on what would happen if MDMA was legalised. We have very effective quality control and legislative policies in place to deal with all sorts of substances and they work relatively well within a regulated market, not a decriminalised system or an open free market economy; but regulated.
As many of you have very well articulated the pros and cons of changing the disaster called prohibition I think it’s easy to get caught in the polarised pro drug and anti drug arguments. There will always be casualties as a result of substance use regardless of the law. Life’s full of risks; including the use of MDMA. Fortunately we know enough about the relative harm of such behaviour compared to allowing the criminal underworld take control of the production of MDMA, distribution and subsequent police corruption to know that the current experiment of prohibition has failed. As someone so brilliantly articulated in another forum that if aliens were watching us the logic of the human species just doesn’t add up we really are pretty dumb.
Example: I can't help but be a bit cynical about the media hysteria of a young 16 year old girl, solo sailing around the world. She has just spent over half a year doing something that is extremely dangerous. Not that I'm opposed to her doing this. I think what she did was amazing. The problem I have is the double standards of how she can do something that is close to one of the most dangerous activities we know of; solo sailing at the age of 16. On the other hand we have young people participating in relatively harmless activities, such as drug use in this case MDMA and being imprisoned because of a policy that is there to protect them.
Let me get this right. If you take a dangerous sailing trip you are heroic beyond all measures of reality. But if you take MDMA you are a criminal and deviant low life. Now that's logic of Darwinian proportions!

 

[MrIbis]

Well some people are just out and out allergic to substances. Nothing changes either side of the coin in terms of deaths related to substance use when that factor is taken into account. Kids will take tablets, and drop dead pretty much on the spot.

Drug education would lower these figures (standard allergy tests etc).

So yeah, IMO sufficient education and regulation of substances used for recreational purposes would benefit us all.

 

[thestudent14]

Just letting you all know, i'll have a big post on this in the next few days. Just mega busy at the moment, but since I saw this thread I've been pondering over it alot.

Stay tuned

 

[aero]

It is interesting to hypothesise, but the pro's really can't outway the con's on this one.

There havn't been sufficiant stuides conducted yet to prove conclusive evidence to suggest longterm safety of the substance. Any evidence provided on a personal basis is just 'hearsay'.

Besides i cannot see the aplication of this substance increasing productivity in society. Sure we can all have big dreams for MDMA when we are at the height of a peak, but the reality is all too different.

 

[MilliVanilli]

Besides i cannot see the aplication of this substance increasing productivity in society

I don't necessarily see a decrease either. Given its lack of any detrimental psychological or physical dependance, most people will go back to the same old routine come Monday morning (probably slightly tired and agitated).

I can see it being productive in terms of how it is used medicinally. I can see huge potential there for a variety of different illnesses and disorders.

 

[aero]

Given its lack of any detrimental psychological or physical dependance, .

Hmm but that has never been clinically proven.

Besides it could never be administered responsibly by the populace.

I think it would cost soceity far more than it would be worth.

Medically i'm all for it's use.

 

[Conscious21]

Hi guys, great thread. One that has finally convinced me to post after many months of reading and learning here!

Wasn't MDMA legal here when it first appeared, you know, until the government got around to scheduling it? I know it was still pretty underground, so there would have been issues with quality and purity (before my time). But perhaps we can draw some conclusions about what it would be like to legalise it now from the way it was used then.

 

[aero]

I think the difference with it being legal in the past, and being legal now, is the awareness the substance has created in the broader community. It wouldn't be underground it would be very widely consumed.

The problem with makeing something so good legal is it's bound to be abused. Just as ciggarettes/Alcohol are. Both have far reaching costs to the community. I'd expect MDMA to be on the same pars as those.

We need less substances IMO legal. But more dicriminalised/government sponsered.
Thats a framework that could be sucsessful.

If we freely gave out MDMA at clinics and it was tightly controlled etc, it would be a sucsessful model. I feel that if drugs were available like that, and monitered, we would have a much safer society.

Makeing them available in stores or at the chemist is not something we want. Unless under the same circumstances.

 

[PsiloSubNaut]

I don't see MDMA having the same abuse potential as alcohol or cigarettes.

Daily use of MDMA isn't very plausible as it ceases to give adequate effects when abused.

Yes, there are some people who will always over use any substance you give them access to, but the beauty of MDMA, unlike many other drugs, is that it is not a habit forming drug.

I think the major problems with legalization will lie in mental health issues that have been associated with it's use.

Over dose, allergic reaction and sodium depletion from drinking too much water are some other issues associated with legalization.

Proper education is the key.

I'd like to see it legalized. A comparison between it and alcohol over a period of years would be of great interest to me.

 

[PsiloSubNaut]

Hi guys, great thread. One that has finally convinced me to post after many months of reading and learning here!

Wasn't MDMA legal here when it first appeared, you know, until the government got around to scheduling it? I know it was still pretty underground, so there would have been issues with quality and purity (before my time). But perhaps we can draw some conclusions about what it would be like to legalise it now from the way it was used then.

Quality and purity aren't an issue with legal substances

Purity and quality only get effected by greed and the lack of proper precursors/refinement. This is caused by prohibition

MDMA was banned in the UK in 1977 and the USA May 31st 1985. Up until then it was abundant in high dose/high purity tablets. I am unsure how available it was in Australia back then but I do know it was common place in many clubs in the USA, especially Texas

BTW welcome to bluelight

 

[phase_dancer]

I know it was still pretty underground, so there would have been issues with quality and purity (before my time). But perhaps we can draw some conclusions about what it would be like to legalise it now from the way it was used then.

Not necessarily issues with purity, at least anymore than with other drugs. iirc legislation was introduced in Aus shortly after the US, so that means when it started to appear more widely in Aus, it was already illegal. I was first introduced to the subject of MDA in NZ in 1979, and it was definitely legal there at that time, but I couldn't say whether it or MDMA were available - probably only amongst the select few who were privy to what was going on in the US and Canada at the time.

 

[thickskin]

I think the difference with it being legal in the past, and being legal now, is the awareness the substance has created in the broader community. It wouldn't be underground it would be very widely consumed.

The problem with makeing something so good legal is it's bound to be abused. Just as ciggarettes/Alcohol are. Both have far reaching costs to the community. I'd expect MDMA to be on the same pars as those.

We need less substances IMO legal. But more dicriminalised/government sponsered.
Thats a framework that could be sucsessful.

If we freely gave out MDMA at clinics and it was tightly controlled etc, it would be a sucsessful model. I feel that if drugs were available like that, and monitered, we would have a much safer society.

Makeing them available in stores or at the chemist is not something we want. Unless under the same circumstances.

There is no chance tax payers would ever support giving out free drugs, and decriminalisation by itself will just lead to more money going to gangs that produce it illegally. Government controlled distribution would open the government up to laws suits galore.

It would be impossible to make sure people were taking the MDMA they were given and not just selling it on.

It needs to be legalised (obviously with strict controls to stop the sale and distribution to <18s) and harm minimised with education programs.

The government needs to stop treating people like children and let them make decisions for themselves.

 

[boodha]

I support legalization of ALL drugs, but only for a few reasons,

1: Remove the criminal element in the supply of the drugs
2: lessen the Harm of the drug by quality control and greater education of users(at the time of the drug being given to the user, a full checkup, and make sure the person knows what they are taking, what they cant take it with etc etc)
3: Stop making criminals out of people who are just taking substances, users imho are not criminals.

but i do not believe in just making them legal so they can be picked up off the shelf, concentrating on MDMA as we are, i believe it should be controlled properly, to be able to purchase MDMA you need to go to a dispenser who is trained to a high enough level to be able to hand out MDMA.
Records should be kept on who is taking it and how many they are taking, a massive element of the supply should be focused on harm minimization.

imho it would create a massive industry, people want to get high, been doing it for a VERY long time, a system of legal supply of MDMA should be able to cater for individuals, some would take more than someone else etc so this needs to be catered for safely, similar to cannabis clubs in California, E clubs could cater for mdma users, where registration/membership is required before you can get access to mdma, then a person would only be allowed to get mdma from there particular club and it would be a personalized dosage, to control use even further taking the club idea further also it could be that these clubs are similar to the notion of raves, where the mdma must be consumed on the premise only(of course not all people want to use at clubs etc, some want to do it at home) different clubs to suit different users, while a person can only legally be a member for one club at a time(usage patterns change)

I do believe there is going to be legalization of drugs in the not so distant future(most likely cannabis first) although mdma could take a very long time(it may never come back....)

taking away the criminal element, preventing innocent people from being criminals, controlling the use of it in ways only dreamed of while it is illegal and providing a level of safety(of course there is always going to be risk involved just like fishing..) is something im sure people in power are going to warm to one day.