What supernatural / alternative beliefs do you have and why?

[rickolasnice]

You're asking people to come forward with beliefs which you think are subjective non-truths, but for them may be truths. How do you expect people to self-identify these non-truths within themselves, for you? AFAIK, anyone who comes forward would be admitting that what they believe is fake.

I'm sorry but the question still doesn't make sense.

I didn't know I was powerful enough for my opinion to dictate fact.

 

[Thanatos]

I know this will sound funny but I really do believe in Sports Curses. It's the one and only super natural thing I'll ever believe in, I have no empirical evidence to support this claim but I don't think anyone could sway me away from this belief.

 

[Foreigner]

Since I'm still not clear on what the OP is asking, I'll just go through the list.

God (but none of the ones interpreted in mainstream religion) - No
God (as a creator, a programmer of the universe) - No
God (other) - as Oneness, which includes us
Ghosts - Seen many in my lifetime, and grew up in a haunted house, so yes.
Psychic Abilities - Yep, though I hate the word "psychic" because of what it implies. If you can increase a person's sensitivity then they will simply be aware of things that the average person isn't.
Life after death - Nothing is destroyed, only converted. I believe science came up with that one. Life vs. death is duality talking. They're the same thing.
Star signs / Zodiac signs - I believe in astrological sciences by using chart data based on understandings of patters of events that have been observed since Babylon. Don't care much for what the newspaper has to say about what the Sun is doing in any given sign.
Karma - Do you believe in cause and effect? Because that's really all that karma is. The only point that it becomes non-empirical is where it claims cause and effect spans our various lifetimes.
Homeopathy - It works on me, as do other energetic medicines like acupuncture. Might not do the trick for everyone.

 

[rickolasnice]

I'm sorry Foreigner but homeopathy.. seriously?

I'm guessing you know what those pills contain?

 

[Foreigner]

If you're a strict materialist then those pills don't contain anything aside from some starch.

I don't let other people tell me how to think. I try things and objectively assess their results in my life. I've used homeopathy in an attempt to treat my depression in the past with some really drastic results. My health provider suggested I try homeopathic phosphorus after assessing me. For the first three days my depression became incredibly, incredibly intense to the point I wondered wtf was going on and I really wanted to kill myself. Then on day 4 all symptoms cleared and stayed that way for months. It was at that point that I started experimenting more. I've had diarrhea fixed with it, along with food poisoning.

And before someone calls it a placebo, I'd point out that all medicine includes the placebo effect. Even in modern pharmacy, studies show that the drugs have less potential if the patient doesn't think they're going to get better, especially if the doctor gives them a grim outlook during the prescribing process. Homeopathy works for many people otherwise there wouldn't be a history of use, entire volumes written about the different formulations, and schools teaching it.

I think if you are sensitive to energetic medicine then it will work on you, because that's the entire basis of homeopathy. Energetics are also the basis of why acupuncture works. It's also why modern science can't figure out its mechanism, or dismisses it entirely.

 

[rickolasnice]

Aside from placebo there is also the: You would have gotten better anyway..

And I'm fully aware placebo is a very powerful phenomena.

May i ask what energy went into each of those you mentioned (if you know).. and how?

RE: Acupuncture
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/acupuncture-doesnt-work/

 

[Foreigner]

Aside from placebo there is also the: You would have gotten better anyway..

Well that's true of any medicine. *shrug*

I've repeated the same experiment many times since and got the same result. Depression intensifies greatly for several days then lifts.

May i ask what energy went into each of those you mentioned (if you know).. and how?

Beats me. Ask a homeopath.

RE: Accupuncture
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/...e-doesnt-work/

List of conditions with proven treatments in acupuncture, from the World Health Organization:
http://apps.who.int/medicinedocs/en/d/Js4926e/5.html

Most of the tests are not performed by real acupuncturists but scientists simply following the anatomical nomenclature of the modern textbooks (which in of themselves are problematic). I would be willing to let a scientist test the results of my patients any day, instead of relying on their biased hacks to do it.

Again rick... it sounds like you rely on studies to spoonfeed you reality instead of actually trying stuff. After all, the worst that will happen is that they don't work.

 

[rickolasnice]

lol that list makes me

Cherry pick here, cherry pick there, scew results here, use poor quality stufy controls throw out the studies that contradict it and bam!

Some of the things it claims to cure is laughable but how about we put a few of them to the test.. properly?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2273.1982.tb01914.x/abstract
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/...sCustomisedMessage=&userIsAuthenticated=false
http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s004150170132

Literally randomly picked 3 things from the list..

Why would a western scientist be biased to find nothing? It's a common misconception held by a lot of spiritualists that scientists are all biased and therefore don't look or brush off confirming results as error.. This isn't how science works. Double-blind studies exist for that very reason. The scientists conducting these tests were probably hoping to find some truth behind the eastern claims.. they wouldn't have spent funds, time and resources hoping to find "no evidence".

Science is about finding out the truth. If a scientist believes there is evidence that suggests something, they test it.. regardless of what the rest of science is saying.. Light is a wave AND a particle? Yeah fck off. There could be an infinite realities meaning every possible occurrence is, has and will occur? On your bike. There are how many dimensions? lol scientist go home your drunk.

Funny how spiritualists never seem to notice that science evolves and is where it is today for asking the outlandish "what if"s and then testing them.. it's just some prove to be bullshit pseudoscience while others prove possible / true.

 

[Foreigner]

^ Are you calling me a spiritualist? Because I'm not. I studied for 5 years, including a year abroad in China to learn the language skills necessary to read their medical books from the past 1200+ years. There was science before there was science. TCM is the only complete diagnostic and treatment system in the world outside of western medicine, and it's been retained through thousands of years of practice and refinement.

I've proven this medicine to skeptics more staunch than you. I treated the chair of a local university's science committee because he tried modern medicine for his condition and it unfortunately was not working. He came to me as a skeptic because his wife insisted. He is now a regular client, and a believer.

I can't explain it to you on your own terms. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Tell me rick, how do you create a double-blind study for the insertion of a needle?

Every credible study I've read on acupuncture compares prescribed points (as they appear in the ancient texts) vs. dummy points. Well, as any acupuncturist can tell you, dummy points will still illicit some medical value, which is why hack acupuncturists still get results. But the masters like myself who spend years refining precision actually illicit the deqi (the travelling sensation) which connects with the body's organs. I can needle a stomach point on your leg, without telling you what it's for, and your stomach will start grumbling. I can take a person with a fever, needle one point in the ankle, and they will feel freezing inside of 10 minutes.

You know what, fuck it. Trying to explain my years of study and experience to a skeptic on the internet is pointless. It would be better if I could just show you. In the mean time, enjoy life sitting in your comfortable little bubble of self-assuredness that you know with such certainty what exactly is happening in the universe around you.

 

[rickolasnice]

Where you from? Cos I'd genuinely love for you to show me (with an open mind)..

 

[Foreigner]

^ PM me.

 

[rickolasnice]

Empty your inbox then

 

[rickolasnice]

Boo just reply PM to me:

Couldn't have just PM'd me, huh?

Hope I'm not causing too much offence.. Good ol debate never hurt anyone until.. well.. someone got hurt

 

[pmoseman]

Well that's true of any medicine. *shrug*

Again rick... it sounds like you rely on studies to spoonfeed you reality instead of actually trying stuff. After all, the worst that will happen is that they don't work.

No it fucking isn't. The worste that can happen is pretty fucking bad. Dying, brain damage.

 

[Foreigner]

^ From homeopathy or acupuncture?

 

[ebola?]

I didn't know I was powerful enough for my opinion to dictate fact.

You define supernatural beliefs as those "fictitious" in your original post. Yes, this is dictating fact, and dismissive enough that those with spiritual beliefs will find it hard to answer the question.

I can't explain it to you on your own terms. That doesn't mean it doesn't work.

Tell me rick, how do you create a double-blind study for the insertion of a needle?

This is a procedure that could be conducted (the 'null'/'placebo' condition being a needle suck in a random but non-dangerous or painful position). These types of experiments have been conducted and even rudimentarily establish the validity of qi meridians as roughly corresponding to neural circuits.

You know what, fuck it. Trying to explain my years of study and experience to a skeptic on the internet is pointless. It would be better if I could just show you. In the mean time, enjoy life sitting in your comfortable little bubble of self-assuredness that you know with such certainty what exactly is happening in the universe around you.

(note: I know this wasn't directed at me, but I consider the following pertinent) I do believe in many of your methods of practice, though I may interpret their meanings in a different way; I don't think spirituality and science need be set in opposition. At times they complement each other, answering different types of questions....ones which the other cannot ask. At other times, they appear to converge on a single, wider 'meta-worldview'.

ebola

 

[rickolasnice]

Pretty sure he was talking about homeopathy.. which I agree with him on.. It's a dangerous practise which holds no benefits outside of placebo.

I looked up what homeopaths use to treat "depression" (I put in inverted comma's as they don't seem to have quite grasped that momentary upset and depression are two very separate things)
www.netdoctor.co.uk/diseases/depression/homeopathy_000066.htm

I suggest you ask your homeopath what it is they give you and see if your depression may, in some part, be due to a certain mineral or vitamin deficiency found in things listed in that link.

That would be all well in good if they didn't put the "essence" of it into a tank of water, then taking a drop out of that tank and putting into another tank of water, and so on, with the belief that this makes it stronger!? (they can do this up to 400x) to effectively sell people nothing but sugar pills (by the final treatment, most of the time, there wouldn't be a molecule left of the "healing product", making it; Water)..

They then try to sell this idea that water has a memory, which is how it passes on it's healing qualities (still not explaining why more dilution = better).. This is simply bollocks and has been proven to be bollocks. The final product in homeopathic strengthening of medicine is water.. Good ol H2O.

Did you know they did this to "strengthen" their medicine? Did you know that there is not a single atom left from the original product in the final product? I doubt they even bother with the original product.. they know it's just going to be lost and they're gonna end up selling water soaked sugar pills.

How much do they cost these days?

Ask your homeopath where they studied medicine, or even biology.. Quacks.

 

[ebola?]

Who, Foreigner? He was talking about natropathy...very different.

 

[rickolasnice]

Homeopathy - It works on me, as do other energetic medicines like acupuncture. Might not do the trick for everyone.

Was he?

 

[ebola?]

I was wrong (sloppy reading), but his later posts switched the topic to acupuncture, a form of natropathy, a totally different animal from homeopathy.

ebola