mmmbeer
Bluelighter
Opiates ain't a scene, it's a lifestyle. Once you taste the waste it's over for you. Don't even try it man.
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BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards
What next on the mild opiates tree....?
- Thread starter GrumpyCat
- Start date
I'm sorry, but I'm going to go by the actual Bluelight Opioid conversion chart, my own experiences, and every other conversion calculator that exists instead of some random BL user's personal experiences and continue to say that morphine and hydorcodone have a 1:1 oral equianalgesic ratio, because they do. This is precisely why i pointed out that this is not the same thing as being the same recreationally. This person would also not be taking 350mg of either of these drugs, so your point is pretty moot. I don't see how making shoot-from-the-hip guesses about equivalency is any safer. I mean thanks for pointing that out, but it was already done in the same post you were trying to correct. I don't know how to make this any more clear to you or anyone else.
OT:
Obviously the smartest thing to do here is not to continue climbing the tree. We all know simply telling someone not to is not sufficient, especially once the climbing has started. I give kudos to those who have made an effort to tip the OP towards recovery, but less so to those who have done so without any other advice. Just saying. Maybe you'd say that the best harm reduction for opioids is getting someone to stop, and I'd say that's only true if they do.
Grumpy, I do think kratom is your best bet if relatively easy to obtain where you are. It has the added benefit of being a common withdrawal aid, so you may find it somewhat easier to get off ultimately than opioids though some find kratom WD absolutely hellish. Still, it's better than making a jump ever is, like I've been saying from the beginning. I wish I knew more about it to be of more help than just agreeing with you but I don't. Fortunately you've already gotten some good advice here and there is plenty on kratom floating around. Message me if you need help finding information on here and I'd be happy to go digging for links. Good luck.
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Thanks to all that have posted, appreciated. Would like to respond to some replies, esp cuivre, but not in good place at the moment
(mood wise), am now in DHC WD (my decision) and also not fully with it and wouldn't pay it justice, but please know I have taken on board what people have said, and thank you for taking the time to say it
I am waiting on kratom (hopefully comes today).
Will post again when feeling 'better' and thank those people properly that have tried to help.
Yes, was crossroads, and decided I don't want to climb the opiate tree, as many have said, thanks.
(mood wise), am now in DHC WD (my decision) and also not fully with it and wouldn't pay it justice, but please know I have taken on board what people have said, and thank you for taking the time to say it
I am waiting on kratom (hopefully comes today).
Will post again when feeling 'better' and thank those people properly that have tried to help.
Yes, was crossroads, and decided I don't want to climb the opiate tree, as many have said, thanks.
Runtoparadise
Bluelighter
Ah, well done man!! Whatever ur doing, ur doing it well. One day at a time ok? & if that's too much, just one hour at a time..
Feel better soon, & remember we're here if you need support or advice?
Rtp
Feel better soon, & remember we're here if you need support or advice?
Rtp
Hi all.
Firstly, I am genuinely touched about the support on here - no one knows about my 'secret' addiction, and saying I got fluey bug now, so I greatly appreciate your advice/support etc as its a lonely road. I hope that I can give something back to the community in the future.
I want to send out a big thanks and cyber hug to all that have posted
Update - the kratom came, and its really helping - on day 2 of it now . Would recommend it to others in a similar position, for sure.
I had my last recreational dose of dhc Monday (300mg with coupla small top ups during the day)
I'm deliberately putting dhc in lower case now to reduce its significance in my life.
Took 2x30mg Tuesday twice and Wednesday once to reduce WD's - hope not to take any today)
Fortunately I didn't have a huge habit, so physical WD's not too bad.
Psychologically wise is a bit harder - all the things that I took dhc to numb/escape from are resurfacing (and biting me on the arse as they say, lol) and bit of a trembling emotional wreck (presuming being trembly/shaky part of WD?), so gotta keep saying to myself I won't always feel like this etc.
I been taking codeine/dhc on and off for years - so in the back of my mind the 'addict' part of me is saying get your tolerance down, and then go back to it 'more sensibly' or see if kratom can become my new 'go to' drug - that's what I gotta deal with in the future/long term, as I'm sure a lot of you know........
Firstly, I am genuinely touched about the support on here - no one knows about my 'secret' addiction, and saying I got fluey bug now, so I greatly appreciate your advice/support etc as its a lonely road. I hope that I can give something back to the community in the future.
I want to send out a big thanks and cyber hug to all that have posted
Update - the kratom came, and its really helping - on day 2 of it now . Would recommend it to others in a similar position, for sure.
I had my last recreational dose of dhc Monday (300mg with coupla small top ups during the day)
I'm deliberately putting dhc in lower case now to reduce its significance in my life.
Took 2x30mg Tuesday twice and Wednesday once to reduce WD's - hope not to take any today)
Fortunately I didn't have a huge habit, so physical WD's not too bad.
Psychologically wise is a bit harder - all the things that I took dhc to numb/escape from are resurfacing (and biting me on the arse as they say, lol) and bit of a trembling emotional wreck (presuming being trembly/shaky part of WD?), so gotta keep saying to myself I won't always feel like this etc.
I been taking codeine/dhc on and off for years - so in the back of my mind the 'addict' part of me is saying get your tolerance down, and then go back to it 'more sensibly' or see if kratom can become my new 'go to' drug - that's what I gotta deal with in the future/long term, as I'm sure a lot of you know........
Runtoparadise
Bluelighter
This too shall pass, repeat. It's a good mantra when in wds.
When you're feeling a bit better, (the acute wd will not last long), even though it will feel forever, think of a healthier habit or hobby to take up or get back into.
There's all too many stories on here regarding members who became clean, then thought they had the strength of mind, the knowledge of how much they struggled with the horrible wds & possibly even PAWS,- to think they could become a casual user of their DOC.
Have a scroll through when your mind starts wandering.
Peace & positive thoughts coming your way
Rtp
When you're feeling a bit better, (the acute wd will not last long), even though it will feel forever, think of a healthier habit or hobby to take up or get back into.
There's all too many stories on here regarding members who became clean, then thought they had the strength of mind, the knowledge of how much they struggled with the horrible wds & possibly even PAWS,- to think they could become a casual user of their DOC.
Have a scroll through when your mind starts wandering.
Peace & positive thoughts coming your way
Rtp
This too shall pass, repeat. It's a good mantra when in wds.
When you're feeling a bit better, (the acute wd will not last long), even though it will feel forever, think of a healthier habit or hobby to take up or get back into.
There's all too many stories on here regarding members who became clean, then thought they had the strength of mind, the knowledge of how much they struggled with the horrible wds & possibly even PAWS,- to think they could become a casual user of their DOC.
Have a scroll through when your mind starts wandering.
Peace & positive thoughts coming your way
Rtp
Thanks Rtp - your support and good advice is appreciated
emkee_reinvented
Bluelighter
This ...
was nagging me thanx for wording it fatstep. Reading this site so long that even without any personal exp I had the impression per oral hydrocodone dose for a relatively naive user was 15/ 20mg. And morphine certainly higher for a remotely equal high. Don't want anyone to underestimate an opioid.
While no one should ever underestimate any opioid, making complete and total guesses about a drug's relative potency based on how high you got is not a safe way to guide someone. The best that can be done for recreational use is to make note of the analgesic equivalency and go from there with a caution on individual differences, and indeed, converting from one opioid to another typically requires reduction based on incomplete cross-tolerance anyway. While the analgesic equivalency only has so much to do with recreational use, it is a fair starting point based on far more evidence than "this is how I felt." I shouldn't have to tell you that just because a person feels subjectively different from the same dose of two drugs does not inherently make them unequivalent in potency for a given ROA. This assertion is, once again, a complete guess based on nothing more than personal experience. Personal experience is priceless for certain purposes but it is only a supplement to what scientific fact we have access to, not a replacement.
Assumptions based on nothing more than that do not necessarily apply to everyone which is exactly why they're only worth so much. Hell, even statements about drug reactions based on much more solid evidence aren't going to apply to everyone, but at least it's more reasonable information to go by. When I was opioid naive, 15-20mg of morphine by mouth got me super high but it took at least 25-30 of hydrocodone for the same effect. You don't see me telling anyone that hydrocodone is .6ishx the strength of morphine because of that. Nor would I think for one second to recommend a new user to try such a big dose just because that's what ended up being appropriate for me through trial and error. I would have an easier time addressing this if certain people weren't pulling numbers out of their asses.
Similar to oxycodone, there are genetic mutations that greatly lessen the effect of hydrocodone. Someone taking hydrocodone who had this would have to use extreme caution when switching to another opioid because a much smaller dose could do much more. What happens to 1.4x then? Or, what if one of you had that problem and claimed hydrocodone was .1x the strength of morphine because you were only going by your personal experience? I'm not saying that the OP has this issue, but this is part of the reason made-up figures are worthless.
I am a little surprised I had to explain the same thing twice for two people who have been here so long.
Grumpy, how you doing today?
Assumptions based on nothing more than that do not necessarily apply to everyone which is exactly why they're only worth so much. Hell, even statements about drug reactions based on much more solid evidence aren't going to apply to everyone, but at least it's more reasonable information to go by. When I was opioid naive, 15-20mg of morphine by mouth got me super high but it took at least 25-30 of hydrocodone for the same effect. You don't see me telling anyone that hydrocodone is .6ishx the strength of morphine because of that. Nor would I think for one second to recommend a new user to try such a big dose just because that's what ended up being appropriate for me through trial and error. I would have an easier time addressing this if certain people weren't pulling numbers out of their asses.
Similar to oxycodone, there are genetic mutations that greatly lessen the effect of hydrocodone. Someone taking hydrocodone who had this would have to use extreme caution when switching to another opioid because a much smaller dose could do much more. What happens to 1.4x then? Or, what if one of you had that problem and claimed hydrocodone was .1x the strength of morphine because you were only going by your personal experience? I'm not saying that the OP has this issue, but this is part of the reason made-up figures are worthless.
I am a little surprised I had to explain the same thing twice for two people who have been here so long.
Grumpy, how you doing today?
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Rachella666
Bluelighter
What about Palexia? (Tapentadol) very ppotent and a gtreat opiate based painkiller
It would probably be unwise to add an opioid with SNRI properties to a tricyclic antidepressant regimen, especially for someone who has already made the decision to try and stop taking pharmaceutical opioids for the time being. Combined with the amitriptyline, tapentadol would increase the risk of developing serotonin syndrome quite a bit and nobody wants that.
emkee_reinvented
Bluelighter
Thanks for this. I was really under the impression oral morhine was weak, underestemating it essentialy.
No problem. Thank you for responding maturely and not getting offended about it, especially after some of what I said was a bit dickish. Nothing that you or fatstep said was incorrect at all but it's so complicated and so dependent on body chemistry. For most people oral morphine is definitely pretty weak recreationally, but there's a reason it's basically the gold-standard cancer pain reliever. Definitely not the strongest drug for a buzz by mouth but still a strong painkiller, and it simply depends on the person in terms of how effective it is for fun. Again, I'd say the majority actually experience the same thing you have--that it takes more morphine than hydrocodone mg-for-mg to catch a buzz--but I've certainly heard of others who found the same thing I did, and for pain the necessary doses should be closer together. Any equivalency is a +/- deal anyway because we're all a little different and it's always safer to start as low as possible when switching opioids. Thank you again for engaging in the discussion and for bringing something that could have been misconstrued to attention.
Grumpy it's been a few days, you doin ok?
Grumpy it's been a few days, you doin ok?
Hi cuivre.
Thanks for continuing to enquire as to my welfare, appreciated
How am I doing? - up and down, seem to be getting more psychological WD's than physical now, which I'm finding hard to deal with, you know emotional stuff, crying etc. Was doing Rtp's "This too will pass" mantra yesterday, thanks Rtp for that, I am hard on myself with getting overwhelmed by feelings, and can't see the wood for the trees type of thing.
I got despondent as none of the kratom I got seemed to be working (it seems it really is a subjective one!) and was thinking about not bothering with it anymore (esp as its so horrible to take!), but after waking up and crying this morning and getting very down, I decided to try the last kratom strain I got - Red Liang Teh Merah (LTM) and it has lifted my mood, thank goodness. So the battle continues I suppose. Just get weary with constantly picking myself up then getting knocked down again, repeat, repeat...
Related query on the kratom - does anyone get trembly/shakey with it? Got today and the other day - not very nice.
Runtoparadise
Bluelighter
Dunno about Kratom GrumpyCat, but just think of the days passing.
Not sure if this is a good suggestion but have you checked out the Loperamide thread?
Don't won't to prolong things for you, & not sure if you're struggling physically.. But once the body symptoms are under control the psychological responses can be better managed.
Rtp
Not sure if this is a good suggestion but have you checked out the Loperamide thread?
Don't won't to prolong things for you, & not sure if you're struggling physically.. But once the body symptoms are under control the psychological responses can be better managed.
Rtp
Hi Rtp, great name btw, thank you for your continuing support, appreciated
I was saying your "This too will pass" mantra yesterday, during an emotional bad patch, and it worked, so thanks
Re Loperamide is that for physical symptoms of WD (eg diarrhea ) or can it help psychological symptoms. I've never had it before, (I'm in UK btw) so excuse my ignorance. If just for physical symptoms I seem to have been very fortunate in not getting many physical symptoms, and they were tolerable and have mostly gone now - tho I am trembly (but they may be side effect of kratom as get it after I take it)
Its the being a bit of an emotional meltdown bit I'm struggling with
