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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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user666 said:
Actually, it was another member that talked about it in this post. He also mentioned that this compound "seem to be missed in lab results."
He wrote that it apparently makes people get "brain zaps" and makes them feel sleepy.
Apparently, there is also a benzodioxole version of it (CAS 68291-92-9).

OTOH: What is a "bleach test" that he talks about in that post?
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The bleach test is bullshit that doesn't determine anything so if someone mentions it disregard whatever shit they then dribble.
 
Question to Chemistry Pros:

How exactly can the M-ALPHA-HMCA be generated as an byproduct during MDMA manufacture from PMK Glycidate ?
The quote below is too general.

M-ALPHA-HMCA can be produced from PMK glycidates, which are frequently used as precursors of PMK, by simultaneous amidation and epoxide ring-opening with N-methylamine
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trUdu1m.png


Also, are there any particular impurities of PMK Glycidate, which could increases the chances of accidentally producing M-ALPHA-HMCA from PMK Gly ?
 
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user666 said:
Question to Chemistry Pros:

How exactly can the M-ALPHA-HMCA be generated as an byproduct during MDMA manufacture from PMK Glycidate ?
The quote below is too general.



Also, are there any specific PMK Glycidate impurities that are necessary for the synthesis of M-ALPHA-HMCA ?
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It's not an impurity in the glycidate.
They made mdp2p from bmk glycidate and didn't purify the mdp2p like they should have and the leftover glycidate that didn't get removed combines with methylamine to make m-alpha hmca.
Sloppy cooking technique.very sloppy. A lack of caring about standards or purity or the final product is to blame
 
user666 said:
from BMK as in Benzyl Methyl Ketone, also known as P2P and Phenyloacetone ?
If "yes", then they would have to add the methylenedioxy bridge to the BMK. Isn't that very hard ?
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If I'm talking about bmk glycidate it always refers to the methylenedioxy compound. I don't know why but the glycidic ester is never used with ordinary bmk just mdbmk.theres stuff like apaan for ordinary bmk.
 
Wow again, @Negi.

I just finished my first read of the article. Damn.

This article actually merges our two primary theories.

We have been speculating that the issue was a MDMA isobary, or a contaminant from synthesis. At the end of the article, it states:

Compound A is structurally similar to MDMA but resembles its constitutional isomer M-ALPHA more than MDMA. The compound additionally bears a hydroxyl group and an N-methylcarboxamide group and was thus named MALPHA-HMCA. Although we cannot exclude the possibility that M-ALPHA-HMCA was intentionally mixed with MDMA, it is highly likely that M-ALPHA-HMCA was generated as a by-product during the course of the synthesis of MDMA from its impure precursor 3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone (PMK, MDP2P). As shown in Fig. 3, M-ALPHA-HMCA can be produced from PMK glycidates, which are frequently used as precursors of PMK[24], by simultaneous amidation and epoxide ring-opening with N-methylamine.
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So, in other words, both theories are correct. MDMA is contaminated with an isomer that is a synthesis byproduct.

I found it interesting that they did not have the standards for this compound.

I searched the Drugs Data database for Uber Eats pills, and I did not see any. Did those pills sell with any other names? I searched on Wedinos too, but did not see them. I am curious if they have been tested, and if so, did the test results show up as MDMA only.

This is a major development. I feel like this is a step in the right direction. @G_Chem and @Le Junk, you need to read this research that @Negi found: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.forsciint.2020.110332
 
I also want to comment on this Q-dance vs. not Q-dance debate that has been going on in the thread.

Whether this particular bi-layer pill is Q-Dance or not, this research article establishes that there are well pressed, bi-layer pills going around that are contaminated.
 
indigoaura said:
MDMA is contaminated with an isomer that is a synthesis byproduct.
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While I understand the thought, technically this is not correct. Look:

ACTBCw6.png


Only M-ALPHA is an isomer of MDMA and since it has the same molecular weight as the MDMA, it can also be called an isobary of MDMA.
M-ALPHA-HMCA is not an isomer nor an isobary of MDMA, since the added Hydroxyl group and the N-methylcarboxamide group (marked in red above) make it a different and heavier organic compound (albeit a related one).

indigoaura said:
I found it interesting that they did not have the standards for this compound.
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It is a pretty odd one, so I am not surprised it is not on the books.
However, what I find even more interesting is the suggestion that these additional Hydroxyl and N-methylcarboxamide groups are easily generated from the Glycidate group of the PMK Glycidate ! This seems like too much of a coincidence since the appearance of Meh MDMA roughly coincides with the switch to the PMK Glycidate as the precursor.

The missing piece of the puzzle is whether the M-ALPHA-HMCA is psychoactive or has any inhibitory effects on the noradrenergic or serotonergic systems like the bi-aryl and other hydroxyl containing compounds discussed recently.
Also, we do not know how differently the M-ALPHA-HMCA appears to the GC/MC analysis. These extra oxygens should make it readily distinguishable even if it fragments in an unfortunate manner and pyrolytic disproportionation rears its ugly head.

The good news is that the Oxygen and Hydroxyl group, which are sticking out, make it sufficiently different, so that it can be distinguished* by some chemoselective solvent or reagent with oxygen affinity ...which can lead to easy removal (it would not be so with the M-ALPHA alone*).

* Of course the Alpha amino methyl group, makes it distinguishable from MDMA, too, albeit not so easily as with these oxygen atoms.
 
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indigoaura said:
I also want to comment on this Q-dance vs. not Q-dance debate that has been going on in the thread.

Whether this particular bi-layer pill is Q-Dance or not, this research article establishes that there are well pressed, bi-layer pills going around that are contaminated.
Click to expand...

Official distributor of Q-Dance posted this on his own forum:

UberEats was never ours. Same as pink/blue redbull. But those are minor releases. On large scale it's very hard to produce duo color pills, as the production cost can quickly rise if you do a mistake, and seeing the price of the pills today, there is no room for mistakes.. So that presser moved back to single color
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He also said that someone is producing fake bi-layer Q-Dance pills, and they copied the pills on decent level, so you really can't trust anything on the market. I don't know if legit Q-Dance pills are meh or magic, but seems like those are the best bet at the moment, according to the reports.

Our copycat in South America got the hang of it a little. CBF and Skype where copied to a pretty decent level (look wise) quality wise is a different story. Unfortunately for them, their copycat party came to a abrupt ending, as police raided their production spot:

plantao190.com.br

COPE fecha fábrica de ecstasy e realiza maior apreensão da droga já registrada no Brasil

Policiais Civis do COPE apreenderam nesta segunda-feira (6) mais de 200 mil comprimidos de ecstasy e fechou uma fábrica da
plantao190.com.br plantao190.com.br
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I have a couple of the newest Q-Dance pills, and I will try one in two weeks, and will do a report. I know my report telling whether those pills are magic or not won't really make any progress, but maybe it helps in this research if we know a source of MDMA that we can consider magic?
 
user666 said:
The good news is that the Oxygen and Hydroxyl group, which are sticking out, make it sufficiently different, so that it can be distinguished* by some selective solvent or reagent with oxygen affinity ...which can lead to easy removal (it would not be so with the M-ALPHA alone*).
Click to expand...
Any particular reagent come to mind?
 
Hi @RyybsNarcs

We have had people debating the quality of Q-dance in this thread. It has always seemed likely to me that there are knockoff Q-Dance pills as well as authentic Q-dance pills, and you cannot trust a stamp. This has always been true. Once a pill gets a good reputation, people try to copy it.

Some people here in the thread have had "magic" Q-dance, and others have had "meh" Q-dance. IMO, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether those people had the same pills or not, or whether they were authentic Q-dance or not.

Definitely let us know what your personal experience is, and which press you tried. What is your history of use? Are you new to MDMA or have you been using MDMA for awhile?

Also, Q-dance has a forum? I would like to read the entire post.

Sadly, even if authentic Q-dance pills are magic, there is little to no way to be certain that what you are getting is authentic, considering that copy-cats are out there.

Also, I hope you don't mind me asking this, but it is something I have noticed. We have had several people come to this thread to post in favor of Q-dance. Usually, they are posters who have made very few posts to BL, and they are often newly registered posters. I see in your post history that all of your posts have been to this thread to advocate for Q-dance specifically. Are you particularly invested in the idea that Q-dance pills are quality? Do you have a lot of history with them?
 
indigoaura said:
Hi @RyybsNarcs

We have had people debating the quality of Q-dance in this thread. It has always seemed likely to me that there are knockoff Q-Dance pills as well as authentic Q-dance pills, and you cannot trust a stamp. This has always been true. Once a pill gets a good reputation, people try to copy it.

Some people here in the thread have had "magic" Q-dance, and others have had "meh" Q-dance. IMO, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether those people had the same pills or not, or whether they were authentic Q-dance or not.

Definitely let us know what your personal experience is, and which press you tried. What is your history of use? Are you new to MDMA or have you been using MDMA for awhile?

Also, Q-dance has a forum? I would like to read the entire post.

Sadly, even if authentic Q-dance pills are magic, there is little to no way to be certain that what you are getting is authentic, considering that copy-cats are out there.

Also, I hope you don't mind me asking this, but it is something I have noticed. We have had several people come to this thread to post in favor of Q-dance. Usually, they are posters who have made very few posts to BL, and they are often newly registered posters. I see in your post history that all of your posts have been to this thread to advocate for Q-dance specifically. Are you particularly invested in the idea that Q-dance pills are quality? Do you have a lot of history with them?
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Q-dance has their own fourm and vendorshop like most big name vendors. They change their press each batch to try avoid copy cats. Their skittles press was a strong 270 mg clean roll half of it is enough for a good time with a quarter booster for a 6 hour roll.
 
indigoaura said:
... it is something I have noticed. We have had several people come to this thread to post in favor of Q-dance. Usually, they are posters who have made very few posts to BL, and they are often newly registered posters.
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I noticed it, too.

indigoaura said:
I see in your post history that all of your posts have been to this thread to advocate for Q-dance specifically. Are you particularly invested in the idea that Q-dance pills are quality?
Click to expand...
Good question.
 
These two samples are the same two that I sent to Vash. I have to go back through the thread and find the NMR for this sample: https://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=8547

There was an additional peak on that NMR, and I think we considered MBDB as a possibility, due to similarity to a published NMR. I will have to find that part of the discussion.
Edited to add: It was not MBDB that we discussed at that particular time.
Link to NMR: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...the-mdma-available-today.791073/post-14725832

The other sample was sent to Vash as well, but that one was lost. So, we never saw NMR for this result: https://www.ecstasydata.org/view.php?id=8546

Of the two, the result with MBDB was the most "meh."
 
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indigoaura said:
My Meh Samples:
www.ecstasydata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #8547 - MDMA, 8547

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.ecstasydata.org www.ecstasydata.org
www.ecstasydata.org

DrugsData.org (was EcstasyData): Test Details : Result #8546 - MDMA, 8546

DrugsData (EcstasyData) lab testing result
www.ecstasydata.org www.ecstasydata.org
Click to expand...

I find it very interesting that both samples have traces of MDA in them, which could hint at the synthesis method. Also, if you look at the Drugsdata results for MDMA + MDA, nearly all of the MDMA with a trace of MDA results are in the US. There's one MDMA sample apparently sent from NL, and a single pill in 2018, but otherwise you have to go back to 2012 to find European pills with MDA dosages low enough to be contaminants. I guess the synthesis methods (or just the labs) over there are more complete.
Edit: There's also a Finnish sample from 2015, but I recognize the vendor name the submitter used, they were Canadian.
 
indigoaura said:
Hi @RyybsNarcs

We have had people debating the quality of Q-dance in this thread. It has always seemed likely to me that there are knockoff Q-Dance pills as well as authentic Q-dance pills, and you cannot trust a stamp. This has always been true. Once a pill gets a good reputation, people try to copy it.

Some people here in the thread have had "magic" Q-dance, and others have had "meh" Q-dance. IMO, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether those people had the same pills or not, or whether they were authentic Q-dance or not.

Definitely let us know what your personal experience is, and which press you tried. What is your history of use? Are you new to MDMA or have you been using MDMA for awhile?

Also, Q-dance has a forum? I would like to read the entire post.

Sadly, even if authentic Q-dance pills are magic, there is little to no way to be certain that what you are getting is authentic, considering that copy-cats are out there.

Also, I hope you don't mind me asking this, but it is something I have noticed. We have had several people come to this thread to post in favor of Q-dance. Usually, they are posters who have made very few posts to BL, and they are often newly registered posters. I see in your post history that all of your posts have been to this thread to advocate for Q-dance specifically. Are you particularly invested in the idea that Q-dance pills are quality? Do you have a lot of history with them?
Click to expand...

Q-Dance itself does not have a forum, but their official (and only?) vendor has. Is it allowed to post the vendors DN forum link here?

I started using Bluelight after encountering the meh-MDMA problem, and reading this thread. I have zero chemistry experience so all my input here seems to be just about pills and my experiences.

As I said, I have seen a lot of positive reports about Q-Dance pills, from new and old users (for example, see user "theone" at pillreports.net) so I ended up buying Q-Dance pills as a best bet after getting meh product numerous times. I don't have any experience with Q-Dance pills yet.

I will do a report about Q-Dance yellow-red Pirelli's later, going to write about my history with MDMA too.
 
I mostly lurk this thread because I'm not a chemist. I'd like to learn more to contribute, are there any good places you guys would suggest for someone that's looking to self learn chemistry? My hope is to learn enough to justify going back to school to learn it properly.

Aside from my question: I have obtained some quality MDMA recently that isn't of the Meh-variety. 100mg of it sent me to the moon and provided that good old magic I remember from my youth. I know the source of this and the last couple of presses I obtained are from the EU. Everything I've had from that source has been magic. I'd like to start sending samples in to be tested or running tests on them at home that would be helpful. I know the thread has a lot of information but I haven't been able to get through all 250+ pages yet despite reading all I could over the past couple of months. Can anyone point me to the best place to send a sample to in the USA?

My source handles a lot of MDMA and several batches have come through that were underwhelming. They would like to contribute to these efforts because they want people to be safe and want to understand why some batches differ from others despite all of them testing positive for MDMA. It's scary that we can't tell the difference between MehDMA and non-Meh without someone taking the new batches.

Has anyone here run across MehDA before? I ask because my source always has both MDMA and MDA in stock most of the time. I'm someone that prefers MDA and I can never remember a batch of that coming through that could be described as MehDA. For whatever reason it seems like MDA hasn't changed at all while MDMA batches always seem to be hit or miss. The MDA has a habit of sitting around a lot longer than MDMA so maybe there is just no reason to take shortcuts when producing it? My source will rarely sell MDA to most people because of the neurotoxicity, duration, and the effects. It's mainly kept around for close friends and private get togethers. So the user base is a lot smaller but they are far more experienced than most of the locals that consume MDMA. If there was a Meh batch of MDA I'm sure most of them would be the first to complain. I can never recall any of them complaining and when MehDMA first started showing up here a lot of us just stopped taking it and switched over to only using MDA.
 
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