What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[mars2025]

Goddamnit, well just did a side by side with the Liebermann hoping to replicate my results and have a better idea on the color changes. And they all turned a maroon over time this time.... Fuck me im sorry guys. To varying extents I suppose and at varying times but not different enough to be positive.

G_Chem, thanks for doing all this work and posting your results! Very few of us have access to so many samples AND the knowledge to rate them as magic or not.

I was wondering if you could test your samples with MDMA purity test from EZTest. I had decent results with it, esp for pills near 50% MDMA content. It's harder to tell 80% from 90% purity based on color saturation. If I you have extra sample and an extra test, I guess you can dump 3x the amount (60mg) into the test tube to see what this test shows for 100% purity, but I don't have that much.

It'd be great if we found that magic simply correlates with purity more often than not. A while back Hilo had a meh sample that MS tested at 82% and a magic one that tested at 91 or something close. This thread decided that 82 and 91 were too close to cause that much difference in effect. But on the other hand, 82% has 2x more impurities, so maybe there is some purity threshold where for most users you really need to have >90% purity to approach the magic zone. And Indigo's sample, which was ok/meh, also tested at only 80.

There is another interesting factor for this test for high purity samples, which I think fits neatly with your color id angle. Most charts and photos show only shades of brown. But one DNM listing I saw advertised very pure product and showed a picture of this exact test with a very clear shade of purple with bright orange on top. If I remember correctly, that orange looked exactly like the 15-minute mark on the color chart. But the picture of actual test tubes from testkitplus shows only shades of brown. Here are some pics of the test results. I'd be very curious to see if any of your samples go through the purple/orange stage at 15-30 minutes.

https://testkitplus.com/wp-content/uploads/images/reactions/mdma-purity-test-kit-color-chart.jpg

MDMA - Purity and Mandelin

Hi guys, Got a new batch of MDMA crystal and ran it through the EZ test kit purity test and Mandelin test, looks ok to me on the purity test but the Mandelin looks a bit iffy. Looking for a second opinion before I bin it Purity test after 45 minutes Mandelin test to show tint Mandelin solid...

www.bluelight.org

 

[mars2025]

Yes, it can be a problem but if you leave a white or gray sheet of paper somewhere in the photo frame and take the photo in unchanging artificial light ( not in a variable sunlight ! ) then it is possible to do white balance and color correction at the recipient's side very accurately.
One gotcha, that white piece of paper should not have any fluorescent whitening agents added to it (like inkjet papers often do) because such papers make their own blue light. See:

Spot Plate, porcelain, 12 cavities

Use this porcelain spot plate to perform multiple reactions on very small amounts of materials.

www.homesciencetools.com

It's a bit of a hassle, but if you know what color you expect (e.g. purple or brown), you can also take a reaction plate (spot plate) and pre-fill most cavities with different shades of the expected color, from darker to lighter. Use paint or dye and dilute with water: 10 drops of dye in each cavity, then 1 drop of water in cavity 1, two drops in cavity 2 and so on. So there'll be an actual color palette right in front of your camera. If you fill it the same every time, you got a constant real-world color scale from one measurement to the next without relying on photos

 

[mars2025]

I hope I'm not polluting this thread with all my messages... I found two posts on Reddit comparing pre-ban 80's MDMA to today's brand-name Dutch pills. These two users seem to be saying it's close (#1) and close but no cigar (#2). Just thought it'd be useful to add to the anecdotal evidence we have here.

from MDMA/comments/4nizbn/americans_and_cp/
"shelly3769: 3 years ago: i'm probably way older than most of you. i started rolling in the mid 80's when mdma was legal in the us it was made illegal my junior year of high school but was still plentiful. the presses that i've had from europe recently: yellow wbs, red ups, red supremes, both orange and blue teslas, pink red bulls not sure if they are cp but if they are, they are the closest i've had to mdma from the 80's"


from MDMA/comments/d9dz4d/pmk_glycidate/
"Logical_Vast: 7 months ago: I have had some of the well known presses A OG orange CP Tesla when those were in circulation a few months and whoever stamps the pills NL that's not CP but I assume they use the same Chinese sources. They were good I was rolling hard but it was not like the old days when I would bet my American black market pills had 80-100 mg at most. ... I don't know I'm old and I've used a lot of MDMA. It could just be me but the true magic is not there even if I do enjoy the music and hug strangers. I liked the CP's but it's not the same. Young people don't know any better."

 

[mars2025]

I’m at a loss truly, my only guess is maybe I didn’t wait long enough last time and the magic turned quicker. This time I moved the puddles around which seemed to then show maroon in them all to varying extents.

Again my apologies, what baffles me is that this change in color happened only with the meh first time around. I can’t believe they didn’t turn reddish at all first run, I remember even waiting them out and moving them around too. I’m gonna repeat these experiments with timers going, crushed weighed samples and see what I get.

-GC

This may be a dumb question, but in addition to crushed weighted samples, do I/you also need to

1. Try to measure the exact volume of the reagent(s) being added? Need a different dropper for each reagent (?)
2. Use a lid for the reaction plate to reduce exposure to air
3. Ask another person if the colors look different to her/him. This is to avoid confirmation bias.

Last message from me today, I promise

 

[user666]

The ambient temperature also affects the colorimetric reagents.

 

[AutoTripper]

I hope I'm not polluting this thread with all my messages... I found two posts on Reddit comparing pre-ban 80's MDMA to today's brand-name Dutch pills. These two users seem to be saying it's close (#1) and close but no cigar (#2). Just thought it'd be useful to add to the anecdotal evidence we have here.

from MDMA/comments/4nizbn/americans_and_cp/
"shelly3769: 3 years ago: i'm probably way older than most of you. i started rolling in the mid 80's when mdma was legal in the us it was made illegal my junior year of high school but was still plentiful. the presses that i've had from europe recently: yellow wbs, red ups, red supremes, both orange and blue teslas, pink red bulls not sure if they are cp but if they are, they are the closest i've had to mdma from the 80's"


from MDMA/comments/d9dz4d/pmk_glycidate/
"Logical_Vast: 7 months ago: I have had some of the well known presses A OG orange CP Tesla when those were in circulation a few months and whoever stamps the pills NL that's not CP but I assume they use the same Chinese sources. They were good I was rolling hard but it was not like the old days when I would bet my American black market pills had 80-100 mg at most. ... I don't know I'm old and I've used a lot of MDMA. It could just be me but the true magic is not there even if I do enjoy the music and hug strangers. I liked the CP's but it's not the same. Young people don't know any better."

Interesting to me this is. The chemistry goes over my weary head, but I love these subjective reports from long term experienced users.

But I would say- rather contrasting. One person saying- clisest to the 80's.

The other- like, not all that really.

 

[indigoaura]

Interesting to me this is. The chemistry goes over my weary head, but I love these subjective reports from long term experienced users.

But I would say- rather contrasting. One person saying- clisest to the 80's.

The other- like, not all that really.

Taken at face value, these posts could line up with the hypothesis that early illegal product (90s-00s) had active impurities that improved the experience (Leuckart?), and pre-ban/modern product lacks those impurities.

 

[user666]

Taken at face value, these posts could line up with the hypothesis that early illegal product (90s-00s) had active impurities that improved the experience (Leuckart?), and pre-ban/modern product lacks those impurities.

I hope not, but we must be open to these possibilities.
The fact that the MDMA from MAPS dilates the pupils an the Meh MDMA does not is an argument against it ...if we assume that MAPS has the pure stuff.

 

[rainey]

Please tell me that’s a picture of you FUB’s I’ve always wondered what your crazy self looked like


Also I have to agree FUBAR with your taste assessment. So when I tried Sample 1 I noticed the bitterness was kinda more acrid, something almost more “synthetic/chemically” about it compared to other presses and shards. It was also significantly less bitter overall than I was assuming based on the supposed mg content.


As to 3Point, I unfortunately probably can’t get a video but I may redo the experiment with all samples side by side and a timer. Maybe pictures but I’m not confident with my abilities to not like leave my home address on the pic data or whatever lol.

-GC

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[Wilson Wilson]

Don't install anything from Cnet, they bundle random unwanted software into their installers that's almost impossible to remove.

Here's the official site for that Exif software, use this link instead:

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[rainey]

Interesting to me this is. The chemistry goes over my weary head, but I love these subjective reports from long term experienced users.

But I would say- rather contrasting. One person saying- clisest to the 80's.

The other- like, not all that really.

I hope I'm not polluting this thread with all my messages... I found two posts on Reddit comparing pre-ban 80's MDMA to today's brand-name Dutch pills. These two users seem to be saying it's close (#1) and close but no cigar (#2). Just thought it'd be useful to add to the anecdotal evidence we have here.

from MDMA/comments/4nizbn/americans_and_cp/
"shelly3769: 3 years ago: i'm probably way older than most of you. i started rolling in the mid 80's when mdma was legal in the us it was made illegal my junior year of high school but was still plentiful. the presses that i've had from europe recently: yellow wbs, red ups, red supremes, both orange and blue teslas, pink red bulls not sure if they are cp but if they are, they are the closest i've had to mdma from the 80's"


from MDMA/comments/d9dz4d/pmk_glycidate/
"Logical_Vast: 7 months ago: I have had some of the well known presses A OG orange CP Tesla when those were in circulation a few months and whoever stamps the pills NL that's not CP but I assume they use the same Chinese sources. They were good I was rolling hard but it was not like the old days when I would bet my American black market pills had 80-100 mg at most. ... I don't know I'm old and I've used a lot of MDMA. It could just be me but the true magic is not there even if I do enjoy the music and hug strangers. I liked the CP's but it's not the same. Young people don't know any better."

FYI: >>>>whoever stamps the pills NL that's not CP but I assume they use the same Chinese sources.<<<<<

NL Stands for Netherlands and these pills are known as qdance pills.....recently and currently they are Pirelli, Skype, Tic Tac, Brazucas, Iphone x and 2cb pills Red Harley Davidson and Blue Mario mushroom/1 up///// their ecstasy pills are usually always bi colour pills with the top of the pill different colour to the bottom and are distributed by the dutch masters. They are not made in china they are made in nl. Normally between 200-280mg.

 

[Wilson Wilson]

Q-Dance make some of the best pills out there end of. M&M's and iPhone X's were great.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

I'm starting to wonder whether the best stuff is kept for the pill presses and the bulk crystal stuff is the crap leftovers? I've not really bothered with pills since getting back in the saddle, but I'm getting increasingly disillusioned with 'crystal'...

 

[Wilson Wilson]

I'm starting to wonder whether the best stuff is kept for the pill presses and the bulk crystal stuff is the crap leftovers? I've not really bothered with pills since getting back in the saddle, but I'm getting increasingly disillusioned with 'crystal'...

Honestly a plausible theory. It's worth trying some proper Q-Dance pills see what kind of difference you notice. I'd be bloody amazed if you were disappointed by one of those unless your serotonin receptors are fried.

 

[mars2025]

So 'NL' is the stamp of qdance? I've heard of qdance and seen the NL logo but never connected the two. Thanks! But why are they so common in London, but seemingly rare in the US? Don't see any US-based sources for them at all. By the way, "the same Chinese sources" probably refers to the sources of the precursor chemicals (the reddit thread was about pmk_glycidate ), it's not saying the pills are made in China

 

[mars2025]

Honestly a plausible theory. It's worth trying some proper Q-Dance pills see what kind of difference you notice. I'd be bloody amazed if you were disappointed by one of those unless your serotonin receptors are fried.

But all this brings us back to the OP, who was indeed disappointed by modern pills, as compared to his very pure Shulgin-style MDMA from San Francisco. Theories?

Here is Le Junk's opinion that started this thread. His magicDMA does not seem to have active impurities and is probably not Leuckart.

"
LeJunk (April 2016): I'm 51 years old and started doing ecstasy the last year it was legal in 1985. Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular. In 1988 I made a connection with someone from the San Francisco area who was in the production field of making MDMA. I have maintained that friendship and connection ever since with only small periods of downtime. The MDMA I get from him is an extremely fine bleach white crystalline powder that is fluffy and lays just like snow. The high from this MDMA takes about 10-15 minutes to take effect and the high is always the same. An extremely smooth come up followed by excessive love and empathy. You will literally melt into the person you're with and sex is out of this world. Touch and feel is heavenly. All you want to do is touch and feel on the person youre with and tell them how beautiful they are and how much you love them etc. There are massive eye wiggles and conversation flows like new born buddas. The come down is just as smooth as the come up. It drops you off just like a feather and sleep comes like a baby. The next day is nothing short of spectacular. You wake up feeling anti-depressed and chatty. You'll want to talk on the phone, visit friends or just drive around and enjoy the day with the top down. It's all I've ever known as an MDMA experience.

Now that brings me to modern day MDMA. There was a period back in the early 2000's when my connection was down and I scored pills from a local guy. They were great and with some very small exceptions, nearly as good as my crystalline powder. But once again I've been forced to score something locally and the stuff is just plain crap. And I mean crap. I've done both the orange Tesla's and the red Supremes. Absolutely awful, but from reading the trip reports on Pillreports, you would have thought they were the best ever. They're actually anything but. I had both of these pills tested on ecstasydata and both came back as pure MDMA.

Both of them took about 30-40 minutes to kick in and when they did, there was a slight feeling of euphoria and empathy that quickly faded and from there on out it was just a fucked up buzz. There were eye wiggles, but I wasn't feeling good when they were happening. I became extremely tired and kind of gacked out. The high from these pills seemed to last forever, maybe just because they sucked so much. I felt like a crackhead on the comedown and the next day felt like a bad MDA hangover. There was no next day afterglow at all. Just a different kind of fucked up than the night before. And that lasted the entire next day. There is a HUGE giveaway that youre doing todays crappy MDMA. Your pupils will not dialate all the way to the very edge like old school ecstasy. With old school ecstasy your pupils consume literally all of the color in your eye with only a microscopic sliver of color left around the outer edge. With modern day ecstasy your pupils will only dialate to slightly beyond normal if at all. Thats a big giveaway youre doing new school MDMA junk. "

 

[RyybsNarcs]

So 'NL' is the stamp of qdance? I've heard of qdance and seen the NL logo but never connected the two. Thanks! But why are they so common in London, but seemingly rare in the US? Don't see any US-based sources for them at all. By the way, "the same Chinese sources" probably refers to the sources of the precursor chemicals (the reddit thread was about pmk_glycidate ), it's not saying the pills are made in China

Yes, Q-Dance crew stamps their pills with small "NL" stamp on back of the pill. Pills are bi-colour, so it's hard(er) to replicate their pills.

Has anyone here tried any of the Q-Dance crews presses? I'd like to hear if users consider these pills as "Magic" or "Meh". I assume this group press their pills from same MDMA everytime, users claim that every Q-Dance pill feels the same.

 

[user666]

Needless to say the legal ecstasy from the so called "Dallas Group" was nothing short of spectacular.

I've even seen a detailed spectrogram of this ecstasy from the 1980s, in this thread.

With old school ecstasy your pupils consume literally all of the color in your eye with only a microscopic sliver of color left around the outer edge.
With modern day ecstasy your pupils will only dilate to slightly beyond normal if at all. That's a big giveaway you're doing new school MDMA junk. "

Yup

 

[indigoaura]

Other people have recommended I give those Q-Dance pills a try. I don't see them listed in the USA often though. I am also quite suspicious of taking that much MDMA at once. 280 mg seems excessive.

 

[Deleted member 521610]

Other people have recommended I give those Q-Dance pills a try. I don't see them listed in the USA often though. I am also quite suspicious of taking that much MDMA at once. 280 mg seems excessive.

280 is heavy your suppose to half them but i usually take full dosed pills since i can handle it but the rush on the come up is very strong and puking is always a big possibility. High dose good mdma is a very psychedelic experince very good for hitting high level of unity with the entire universe and melting into the couch people and getting strong strong mdma visuals very good to combo this high dose with cannabis to relax from the heavy stimulation since your lungs will be able to smoke alot like its nothing.