• MDMA &
    Empathogenic
    Drugs

    Welcome Guest!

What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Every single drug has some aspect of "set and setting" infuencing their effects... to say otherwise is foolish :)

And yeah it's my understanding nobody uses leuckart rxn for bulk production of MDMA. The yields are shit. Smaller batches would use Al amalgam (Shulgin style) but large batches would benefit ftom using Pt or Pd catalyst and H2. You would be better off hydrolysing your NMF and reductively aminating with methylamine. All of these are well-documented reactions that yield known products in a reliable fashion...
 
@goaskalex - This thread is for discussing the variation between batches of MDMA that a laboratory would identify as MDMA. There have always been "fake" ecstasy pills and "fake" molly. If you sent that in to a lab like Drugs Data, they would tell you it is coke and asprin, or it is DXM, or meth or whatever it is. No mystery there. It isn't what it is supposed to be, and the lab will confirm that.

We are specifically interested in why lab tested MDMA has significant variation between batches. In other words, if you send it to a lab, the lab says it is MDMA, but it feels totally different from another batch of MDMA that the lab also says is MDMA.
 
I know we have touched on this before, but I just want to re-iterate it again.

There is variation between the meh batches as well.

I know I have talked a lot about not finding the type of MDMA that I prefer; a type that would match the quality around in the early 00s.

If that "magic" MDMA is on one end of the spectrum, there is a whole spectrum between that magic and the worst of the "meh" batches.

Some of the worst "meh" batches I have had not only make me physically sick but also have negative effects such as intense "anti-social" vibes. I may be laid up for a week afterwards with physical illness.

Some of them create a relaxed feeling for an hour or two, but nothing too impressive, but nothing too bad either. Kind of like a .5 mg xanax.

I felt pretty thrilled to discover a batch without the "sick" side effect and some minimal pro-social effect that kept me talking and socializing.

Someone asked why people keep buying it...well, I know I am not getting what I want. However, there is that *hope.* There is some effect that is different from baseline sobriety. One of my friends who tests batches with me actually likes some of the minimal Meh effects for public events like concerts. Nobody can tell he is on anything, there are no visual "tells," but he gets a minimal boost that is different from alcohol.
 
Last edited:
Yes, the minimal effect is the one i like.
I go full sober 4 hour after ingesting.
Remember going home at 6am after one pill taken at 23h, scared if i am looking good to go in public.
Meh is very set and setting dependent.
With same batch, I had a decent role one week after first not so good rolling.
It should be opposite, as mdma is a serotonin releaser.
With magic, i can roll anywhere and have a great time, of course with considerable time between rolls.
 
Meh is very set and setting dependent.
Click to expand...

@Simosom I have not found that to be the case, personally. Set and setting implies that a really positive setting with good vibes would have a similar effect on the experience. I have had Meh product absolutely ruin a good time that would have been great if I had just opted to stay sober. It seems to run absolutely contrary to typical set and setting rules. Usually, if I am having a great time, and it is a great day, with great vibes that is a good time to take a hallucinogen because it will all be amplified. Obviously, there can be exceptions to that, but as a general guideline it works. However, that is NOT the case with mehDMA. I chalk the variation up to undetected adulterants, personally. It may not be uniformly mixed and as a result there are different ratios within the mehDMA.

I do agree with you though that traditional "magic" MDMA can produce an excellent time despite a terrible set and setting (and I have experienced that many times).
 
indigoaura said:
I chalk the variation up to undetected adulterants, personally. It may not be uniformly mixed and as a result there are different ratios within the mehDMA.
Click to expand...
So wouldn't it make sense to learn how to do preparative column chromatography at home, in order to separate the different ingredients of the "Meh MDMA" ?
How expensive would the glassware and the powders/gells be ?

Of course you'd need a source of "user tested" batches of "MDMA" to compare. (virgin users preferably).
...OR an ability to send the unknown fractions to a decent lab for proper identification ? I wouldn't want to send the real MDMA fraction to just any lab, though...
 
So wouldn't it make sense to learn how to do preparative column chromatography at home, in order to separate the different ingredients of the "Meh MDMA" ?
How expensive would the glassware and the powders/gells be ?
Click to expand...

If someone who knows how to do it can create a step by step guide, preferably with pics or video, made for dummies who do not have a lot of background knowledge, then I would be more than happy to attempt this. I will also be glad to send off the fractions to Drugs Data for analysis.
 
@user666 , this post (#2689) goes into some of the approaches and results noted by an old Hive chemist:

What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

@Glubrahnum - Would you please provide a brief overview of what synth methods contain mercury? I thought that the synth from organic safrole was the synth more likely to produce the magic product (based on what we have talked about here). Is that not what we are looking for? Isn't one of the...
www.bluelight.org www.bluelight.org

al/hg is the method with mercury, as far as I understand it. Other users like @G_Chem can confirm.

@Glubrahnum explains it here: https://www.bluelight.org/xf/thread...the-mdma-available-today.791073/post-14636905
 
Last edited:
F.U.B.A.R. said:
Also, why is it that those of us with 'perma-tolerance', have 'lost the magic' and take it in the wrong set and setting; occasionally get a batch that makes us go "fuck yeh!"..? The effects profiles of the bad and the bangin' are very different and instantly recognisable.
Click to expand...
It's obviously not a tolerance issue and ppl who keep pushing that idea aren't helping
 
indigoaura said:
If someone who knows how to do it can create a step by step guide, preferably with pics or video, made for dummies who do not have a lot of background knowledge, then I would be more than happy to attempt this. I will also be glad to send off the fractions to Drugs Data for analysis.
Click to expand...
This is what needs to be done
Finding out what else is in the meh will help us determine if it's a route specific problem causing this.
 
draculic acid69 said:
This is what needs to be done
Finding out what else is in the meh will help us determine if it's a route specific problem causing this.
Click to expand...
By route specific I mean finding out how the meh is being made is of the upmost importance.if it's a new method with different precursors or whether something is happening with established methods
 
draculic acid69 said:
Mercury aluminium amalgam reduction is what it's called.
Click to expand...

No it is not, it is reductive amination with Amalgamated Aluminium or Aluminum Amalgam, it is not a different route it is just a different method of doing reductive amination using a different reducing agent. Mostly called Al(Hg) or Al/Hg reduction by chemists.
Bt definition amalgams always contain Mercury.

The way to do this is to sample as many Mehs or Magics before consumption by taking 10mg off and and keeping it labelled,
Then running GC-MS or LC-MS with heavy sample or even overloading and a full temperature program and looking in the undergrowth of the GC-MS results. To avoid the overloading technique better still use an antisolvent like Ether or MTBA or even TAME or CPME to extract the sample without basification and concentrate and inject the ether extract, again with a full temperature program, the trace junk will end up in the antisolvent.

If there is a significant chemical difference between Meh and Magic it will be seen by going through the two sets of data.
 
Yes to there being a spectrum from Magic to Meh.

And yes to the fact that MehDMA can absolutely ruin a good time. This is, in my opinion, paramount to our inquiry. It speaks volumes that a beautiful and magical psychedelic experience can be ruined by ingesting MehDMA during the experience.
 
I just saw a mention of different salts of MDMA in an earlier post in this thread, here's a thought:
1. Different salts have different solubility parameters.
2. Slow, or incomplete absorbtion of the salt could lead to lower blood concentrations.
3. The average chromatography test will usually react pills with aqueous base and then extract organics with e.g. chloroform. This would mean that the MDMA would indeed be detected as MDMA and would appear as potent a pill as any other.

The problem here is:
1. I would think that most common salts of MDMA would have significant water solubility and you'd have to go out of your way to do. Effectively every single MDMA recipe I know of makes the hydrochloride salt. I think the phosphate salt might have been a thing? I do know that you usually have to go out of your way with wacky aromatic salts (napthalenesulfonate, benzenesulfonate, etc) or polymers to make compositions that don't dissolve as rapidly in water.
2. Analysis could be modified to also check the identity of the counterion in the salt, maybe through LC-MS or some proper ion chromatography/electrophoresis (of which I have little practical experience).
3. Lower blood levels of MDMA present would be a dead giveaway.
4. Different salts of MDMA would have different crystal shapes.
5. I have a feeling dissolving the pills in e.g. cola beforehand could effectively convert the MDMA to a "known good" salt (I believe the phsophate & citrate should both be highly bioavailiable)
6. Your small intestine in concert with bile salts as emulsifiers should convert the salt to a freebase in a PTC reaction of sorts anyway?

Vecktor's idea of triturating the compound with antisolvent and running anlysis on the liquid is known as "Swish TLC" when one uses TLC as analysis and is a cool pharmacy chemistry trick. Fractional equilibrium dissolution I think it's called. Maybe use a few diff solvents in paralell washes for ideal maximum screening power, If you can't find you mystery impurity on GCMS with that it's not there :)

Also worth considering, GC-GC-MS. GC's can be set up to use two different seperation media to give an additional means of seperating compounds that may co-elute with others (if you are too lazy to pick a proper column in the first place, IMO).
 
@sekio I finally read up on GC-MS and it seems like quite a nuanced technique with many modes of running it. Is it possible that current GC-MS tests have missed low level contaminants due to running in modes that can't detect unspecified contaminants at such low levels? Could running tandem MS/MS / GC-tandem MS or some other variant possibly yield results otherwise lacking?

This is a question I had a few days ago reading the Wikipedia article on GC-MS, and it seems like you're proposing something similar with your last sentence, ie. a variant testing method. Though, maybe running a column removes the need for any of it.
 
And yes to the fact that MehDMA can absolutely ruin a good time. This is, in my opinion, paramount to our inquiry. It speaks volumes that a beautiful and magical psychedelic experience can be ruined by ingesting MehDMA during the experience.
Click to expand...

I have also had an experience where I was on some better than average "Meh" product and I was enjoying my evening, and then I ran out of that batch. So, I went back to my standby "meh" batch and it completely changed the vibe and ruined the roll. The roll was not perfect, mind you, but it was a hell of a lot better than my typical "meh" product.

I think one of the challenges here is actually knowing what method was used to create the product. You can't trust what is being said on the DW, and most of us do not have direct contact with whoever made the product. When I have tried to get more details about the process, I am usually stonewalled.

@sekio We've tossed the salt idea around a few times. You mentioned that "Different salts of MDMA would have different crystal shapes." Would that be visible to the eye? @G_Chem and others have noted that their "magic" supply has a specific look to the crystal. Do you think dissolving MDMA crystal in cola is a worthwhile experiment?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top