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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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@TripSitterNZ and @androoo, Reading your back and forth, it seems possible the two of you are just in different areas and traveling different circles. @androoo, can you try any of the specific presses @TripSitterNZ is talking about? The two of you could work together to try to resolve what is going on there in NZ specifically. I don't think either one of you should doubt what the other is saying. It is entirely possible that Tripsitter is getting quality product and androoo is not. If both of you took the exact same thing, and Tripsitter's eyes dilated but androoo's did not, then that would be very valuable information that we have not received from anyone yet.

Would both of you be willing to fill out a questionnaire from Drugs Data regarding your specific experience when rolling?

I want to point out that the effects of MDMA are both subjective and observable. A sober person could watch people on MDMA and comment on the level of eye dilation, movement, appearance of jaw, how often the affected people are touching things etc. Observable phenomenon may be more reliable than subjective comments. Someone who never had access to anything besides "meh" product may not understand what the difference is. They may find the "meh" experience to be magical by their terms. We may need to develop a system of measurement to describe the subjective experience.

I agree that @G_Chem is probably the best person to comment on the specific differences between reagent testing for magic and meh. I do not personally have access to magic. I may be a case of tolerance. Wish I knew! Before all this coronavirus stuff happened, I was hoping to travel to some different regions and try some different products, but that is not going to be possible now, unfortunately. I hope all of you are staying safe and well.
 
draculic acid69 said:
This issue was recently discussed on another site and the person who started that thread claimed to have been making it and knew other people making it and was also getting this meh stuff from other producers.anyway after a few pages this person performed a purification process called column chromatography on the meh stuff and lo and behold the now purified stuff was no longer meh but was now magic.not sure what kind of ratio of meh to magic there was so don't ask.mass production of mdma has always(mostly) been via the leuckart method with precursors already made by chemical companies who will analyze what they've synthesized before sending it off to be made into mdma so unless some mass production crews are trying new methods and not purifying there starting or end product theres only one thing i can think of is that it could be an isomer of mdma such as the nitrogen being at the 1 or 3 position instead of the 2 position.doesnt really seem to be other possibilities.
I'm wondering if it's the commercial mdp2p rearranging into the more stable mdp1p as it apparently does if not stored in the cold or kept too long.using this in a leuckart/mercury aluminium amalgam rxn would yeild
the mdpropyl1methylamine instead of mdpropyl2methylamine compound.im not sure if this can fool a GC/ms analysis or it's operator.it would explain why its still active albeit not very good (it's got an entry in pihkal doesn't it) and why it looks the same as mdma on gc/ms as it's all the same groups but someone who understands GC/ms stuff will have to answer that one.point being it's either a problem with old ketone or lack of purification at the end but no one ever until now has had to resort to column chromatography for purifying there mdma just to make it active.
Click to expand...

Leuckart hasn’t been commonly used since the late 90’s/early 00’s. Also that person you speaking of was probably Vash with another username.

-GC
 
draculic acid69 said:
Another possibility is that the bromosafrole method was used and the hbr acid they used contained a lot of free bromine and that caused a significant amount of the md3bromo compound to be made along with the md2bromo compound which when aminated would lead to the nitrogen attaching in the 3position instead of the 2 position.but the chance of this low yeilding method with this specific mistake being used on a big enough scale for all these different ppl to be getting the meh stuff with this being the cause are probably very low but its possible.
Is this meh stuff just a u.s. problem or is it worldwide? Is this a problem with Australian mdma as well? How long has it been going on? R ppl in Europe also getting this?
Click to expand...

You should know bromosafrole method is almost never used and certainly not large scale. We already know catalytic hydrogenation via platinum catalyst is the most common method these days.

-GC
 
draculic acid69 said:
The leuckart was used bcoz on such a large scale it's simple to do,the ingredients are cheap and available and the yeild is as good as any other method.its probably still being used as there's no way nmf is harder to get than it used to be and because of that I doubt it will stop being used.
Click to expand...

Please just quit. You obviously have no clue what your talking about... Leuckart averages 30-40%, whereas near quantitative yields can be had with many other routes.

Yes “ingredients” (we baking cakes here?) are easy to get but again it’s finicky, produces lower yields, and leaves impurities which ARE active and may give a better effect.

Some impurities can be active and positive in their own right, MDA and MDEA are two which can occur that come to mind.

-GC
 
psy997 said:
This is not the case given how many users that have experienced MehDMA have experienced MagicDMA experiences just before and/or after Meh experiences. Especially Hilopsilo who rolled with an entire group on Meh one night, then used another batch the next night and had a totally different, classically Magic experience. Set and setting is important, but it doesn't cover the effects seen with Meh.



I am starting to get curious about why Australian/NZ users here seem more likely to have not ever experienced Meh. It is a very good question that I, too, hold.



Low dosed / impure product also doesn't fit the bill considering bumping up dosage does nothing except (usually) make the experience even more meh. Plus, 40mg of MDMA plugged is more than enough for pure ecstacy - I've done it multiple times - and that amount of Meh plugged is nothing like it.
Click to expand...

It’s because Aus still has a decent source of safrole as well as a better than realized domestic production.

-GC
 
indigoaura said:
@TripSitterNZ and @androoo, Reading your back and forth, it seems possible the two of you are just in different areas and traveling different circles. @androoo, can you try any of the specific presses @TripSitterNZ is talking about? The two of you could work together to try to resolve what is going on there in NZ specifically. I don't think either one of you should doubt what the other is saying. It is entirely possible that Tripsitter is getting quality product and androoo is not. If both of you took the exact same thing, and Tripsitter's eyes dilated but androoo's did not, then that would be very valuable information that we have not received from anyone yet.

Would both of you be willing to fill out a questionnaire from Drugs Data regarding your specific experience when rolling?

I want to point out that the effects of MDMA are both subjective and observable. A sober person could watch people on MDMA and comment on the level of eye dilation, movement, appearance of jaw, how often the affected people are touching things etc. Observable phenomenon may be more reliable than subjective comments. Someone who never had access to anything besides "meh" product may not understand what the difference is. They may find the "meh" experience to be magical by their terms. We may need to develop a system of measurement to describe the subjective experience.

I agree that @G_Chem is probably the best person to comment on the specific differences between reagent testing for magic and meh. I do not personally have access to magic. I may be a case of tolerance. Wish I knew! Before all this coronavirus stuff happened, I was hoping to travel to some different regions and try some different products, but that is not going to be possible now, unfortunately. I hope all of you are staying safe and well.
Click to expand...

Funny thing I just obtained fresh reagents, quite a selection too. Today or tomorrow I’ll go over all the various batches in my possession and see what I find.

I was gonna do this before but I wasn’t happy with the age of my reagents.

-GC
 
indigoaura said:
@TripSitterNZ and @androoo, Reading your back and forth, it seems possible the two of you are just in different areas and traveling different circles. @androoo, can you try any of the specific presses @TripSitterNZ is talking about? The two of you could work together to try to resolve what is going on there in NZ specifically. I don't think either one of you should doubt what the other is saying. It is entirely possible that Tripsitter is getting quality product and androoo is not. If both of you took the exact same thing, and Tripsitter's eyes dilated but androoo's did not, then that would be very valuable information that we have not received from anyone yet.

Would both of you be willing to fill out a questionnaire from Drugs Data regarding your specific experience when rolling?

I want to point out that the effects of MDMA are both subjective and observable. A sober person could watch people on MDMA and comment on the level of eye dilation, movement, appearance of jaw, how often the affected people are touching things etc. Observable phenomenon may be more reliable than subjective comments. Someone who never had access to anything besides "meh" product may not understand what the difference is. They may find the "meh" experience to be magical by their terms. We may need to develop a system of measurement to describe the subjective experience.

I agree that @G_Chem is probably the best person to comment on the specific differences between reagent testing for magic and meh. I do not personally have access to magic. I may be a case of tolerance. Wish I knew! Before all this coronavirus stuff happened, I was hoping to travel to some different regions and try some different products, but that is not going to be possible now, unfortunately. I hope all of you are staying safe and well.
Click to expand...
Of course, do you have a link for the questionnaire? Ta 👍🏼
 
I
G_Chem said:
Leuckart hasn’t been commonly used since the late 90’s/early 00’s. Also that person you speaking of was probably Vash with another username.

-GC
Click to expand...
I think Ur right about the cash thing.
Mercury aluminium amalgam probably became more popular along with sodium borohydride but I doubt the leuckart isn't still being used today.if your buying 100 litres of mdp2p from china u might as well order a couple of hundred litres of nmf as well.
 
draculic acid69 said:
Another possibility is that the bromosafrole method was used and the hbr acid they used contained a lot of free bromine and that caused a significant amount of the md3bromo compound to be made along with the md2bromo compound which when aminated would lead to the nitrogen attaching in the 3position instead of the 2 position.but the chance of this low yeilding method with this specific mistake being used on a big enough scale for all these different ppl to be getting the meh stuff with this being the cause are probably very low but its possible.
Is this meh stuff just a u.s. problem or is it worldwide? Is this a problem with Australian mdma as well? How long has it been going on? R ppl in Europe also getting this?
Click to expand...

Nearly all of Australias MDMA currently is Imported from the Netherlands. Over the past two decades there has been a handful of local productions busted but they rare.

As of lately the Netherlands stuff ranges from a brownish colour too a lighter tan. I imagine thats whats geting around mostly in the UK and Europe.
 
Dunno about the stuff where the rest of y'all live, but in Orlando, Molly is just crushed up Aspirin with a little bit of coke in it.
 
andyturbo said:
Nearly all of Australias MDMA currently is Imported from the Netherlands. Over the past two decades there has been a handful of local productions busted but they rare.

As of lately the Netherlands stuff ranges from a brownish colour too a lighter tan. I imagine thats whats geting around mostly in the UK and Europe.
Click to expand...
Yeh I know it's all European and they've been getting it right for a long time now.so why all of a sudden is it not right? Also I've never heard of meh stuff in Australia.
 
androoo said:
dmt & lsd won't reset your brain so you can enjoy mdma again
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Despite me not having taken MDMA since 2005, I am satisfied in my mind the Meh does exist.

At the same time, I have to respect @TripSitterNZ 's report and experience.

But I do definitely believe in the phenemenon of psychedellics to be able to restore the magic and full effects of MDMA, and also that regular psychedelic use particularly LSD and mushrooms alongside MDMA usage in a poly drug type situation.

Probably more so with mushrooms, Im guessing, they genuinely do have the effect of restoring seretonin function and general chemical neurotransmitter balance within the brain I believe.

Psilocybin mushrooms I have seen recommended after experiencing Lyme disease because it is claimed that the borrelia bacteria basically destroys the serotonin receptors or some part of the system. It was said the shrooms can do some magic to bring things back to life.

And I have already documented my own account and experience around here how I was using LSD and mushrooms regularly alongside my MDMA is and I never lost the magic and I always experience an exhilarating refreshment and renewal of consciousness and emotional Outlook feeling from the psychedelics.

So I understand where @TripSitterNZ is coming from on that point. Im sure there will be some science to demonstrate this hopefully at some point.

But @androoo I'm not disagreeing with or challenging you regarding your experience of MehDMA.
 
andyturbo said:
You would be surprised man. Sadly the less informed and newer users wouldnt know the difference.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this is true. People just don't know any better. I've seen it time and time again to the point that I no longer trust anyone besides myself re: MDMA quality.

Also, a question for those of you that claim perma-tolerance, issues with users, etc. instead of issues with product quality:
If the MehDMA phenomenon is due to users' biology, why then can those of us that experience MehDMA reliably roll on -APBs and -MAPBs?
Personally, 6-APB still takes me to 95% of where MagicDMA takes me. That shouldn't be the case if something is wrong with my biology, considering the similarity of MOA.
 
Also, why is it that those of us with 'perma-tolerance', have 'lost the magic' and take it in the wrong set and setting; occasionally get a batch that makes us go "fuck yeh!"..? The effects profiles of the bad and the bangin' are very different and instantly recognisable.
 
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