I don't have a forensic sample of this compound so I cannot try it.
...but you can read some anecdotal "evidence" about TLC on isopropylbenzylamine here.
For example, the compound #7 depicted below (PubChem CID 85777948 ) elutes at the same time on GS as 3,4-MDMA and has the same ion fragmentation on MS as 3,4-MDMA.Speaking of which and the 23 compounds GC/MS might miss on MDMA.
...compounds #3 and #7 continued to display very similar elution properties and mass spectra.
This similarity in retention properties was made more significant because compound #3 was 3,4-MDMA
Yes, although these Canadian RC suppliers sell only to companies and edu. institutions.So, if I am reading this correctly...someone could legally order one of these compounds and send it to a lab. They could say it was sold as MDMA and see if the lab indicates it is MDMA or something else.
Do you want to start a KickStarter campaign to collect funds for purchasing forensic samples of these 32 isobaric compounds and sending them out to test the Test Centers ?This would provide irrefutable evidence that one of the isobaries is undetected by GCMS lab testing.
Do you think they would improve their analysis methods immediately after learning about the problem or only after more PR pressure was applied ?Furthermore, the lab could then be informed and advised to improve their overall methods.
That would be something, especially in the light of these 2,3-methylenedioxy precursors, which I have detected last year, but nothing short of a reliable field-test would stop such practices.Also, when you think about it, the ultimate "heist" would be for the mega labs to be KNOWINGLY making something legal, selling it as MDMA, and not running the risk of legal action for a controlled substance.
Do you know all the modern synth methods and their byproducts?They are not been produced at all during any synth methods thats really streching alot of things.
How about you?Quote from: https://mixmag.net/feature/we-went-undercover-in-a-chinese-mdma-factory
Our lab switched [in 2010] to ethyl PMK-glycidate as a precursor. This was unwatched, and we were able to source it from China at a very competitive price,” he said.
He revealed the details of his synthesis to me, and I verified the feasibility of the method with an equally expert but legitimate chemist. It wasn’t just feasible, he told me; it was beautiful. “It achieves complex molecular changes in a single concerted step, almost like watching a solar system of planets align. ‘Elegant’ is a good word for it, too. It’s the sort of thing that anyone [any organic chemist] could have come up with once it’s explained to you, but really, the first person to come up with this [method] had quite a stroke of inspiration,”
Do you know all the modern synth methods and their byproducts?
I certainly don't. Especially this one:
How about you?
Do you know all the modern synth methods and their byproducts?
I certainly don't. Especially this one:
How about you?
He revealed the details of his synthesis to me, and I verified the feasibility of the method with an equally expert but legitimate chemist. It wasn’t just feasible, he told me; it was beautiful. “It achieves complex molecular changes in a single concerted step, almost like watching a solar system of planets align. ‘Elegant’ is a good word for it, too. It’s the sort of thing that anyone [any organic chemist] could have come up with once it’s explained to you, but really, the first person to come up with this [method] had quite a stroke of inspiration,”
I feel like they would send it to a lab... and CUT it with MDMA like the N-iso meth.. but straight out subbing with a lab in china is entirely possibly.. never thought of that...I feel like this conversation just went to a new level. Exciting stuff.
So, if I am reading this correctly...someone could legally order one of these compounds and send it to a lab. They could say it was sold as MDMA and see if the lab indicates it is MDMA or something else. This would provide irrefutable evidence that one of the isobaries is undetected by GCMS lab testing. Furthermore, the lab could then be informed and advised to improve their overall methods.
Also, when you think about it, the ultimate "heist" would be for the mega labs to be KNOWINGLY making something legal, selling it as MDMA, and not running the risk of legal action for a controlled substance.
MDMA via Helional via curtis is the new one...Do you know all the modern synth methods and their byproducts?
I certainly don't. Especially this one:
How about you?
. They would also be easily distinguishable in numerous NMR methods. Well for one ENERGY control uses...They are not been produced at all during any synth methods thats really streching alot of things.
Considering that pmk is the starting material it would be impossible for those things to be created during a mdma lab.
Those things would also not react the same way with all testing kits. They would also be easily distinguishable in numerous NMR methods.
EC uses UltraViolet–Visible Spectroscopy (UV/Vis): This technique is used in the quantification of MDMA and 2C-B so ya.. I think xtcdata is the same.Do you know all the modern synth methods and their byproducts?
I certainly don't. Especially this one:
How about you?
Yes.Do you know all the modern synth methods and their byproducts?
I certainly don't. Especially this one:
How about you?
Yes.
Thats old news one pot pmk methods were invented in a jail cell by a ex bayer dutch chemical engineer in late 90s early 2000s and used as early as 2003 in australian mdma labs
nothing new they have been around for a while.
It doesn't take a chemist to realize the 3,4 postions are the starting postions in every starting precouser to mdma including safrole
That book author is the mdmda i use to mid in 2000s the people that went under with him and still in jail are people i use to get amazing mdma off from those aussies. Sydney was fucking insane during his time and the pigs came and ruined all the fun. he is also out of prison his partner was a crazy bitch and tried to get hits done on witnessesNOOOO pill of the gods? converting the glyciate is converted to MDP2P ketone with acid... then converting to MDMA. It is a know and well documented MDMA route, 2 steps from glycidate which should make 50/50 R/S MDMA... This is saying Glycidate to MDMA in a single concerted step!!! HUGE DEAL
The old Glyciate route has been around since at least TS2 in 1998 located page 95... barium posted success in 2003/4 he was dutch I believe. Rhodium also as well in 2003. This was the route he went I know what you are talking about... The guy your talking about def didn't create ANYTHING NOVEL or unique DAL CARSON for DEA talked D wrote about this method in his 1990 forensic article An Evaluation of the Potential for Clandestine Manufacture of 3,4-Methylenedioxyamphetamine (MDA) Analogs and Homologs (scroll down to the "Precursors" section). In that article, Das Cason references it from Elks, J. and Hey, D. H., "?-3,4-Methylenedioxyphenylisopropylamine," Journal of the Chemical Society, 15-16 (1943) as one of the known routes to MDP2P in the scientific literature. That 1943 article has been on Rhodium's Archive probably from 2003 onward since August 2003 is when Rhodium posted that article at the hive. In that 1943 paper, the authors mention the "recent publication" of British Patent GB519894 "which directs attention to this route to substituted ?-phenylisopropylamines from the corresponding substituted benzaldehydes" and they claim to have started work on this route in 1939!
Think or lookup the Aminomercuration of safrole to MDMA!!! It doesn't go to ketone just sassy to MDMA one pot same idea... NOONE on the hive or HYPERLAB have a "1 POT" .. A close to 1 pot exists from helional to MDA...
This would prove it was an enantiomer dominance because the glycidate is has that and it's the only way possible avoiding the glyciate... this rabbit hole gets weirder and weirder.. and all it can can be causing the same or similar causes WOW the rabbit hole deepens...
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
This guy right?
There's an ebook called 'Pills Of God' on Amazon about one of the guys involved in the discovery of this process, it happened much earlier than 2012 though.
He was a Dutch cook and flew to Shanghai to a factory where they had dozens of tons of PMK they couldn't sell because it had been recently banned. He put 2mil upfront he borrowed off the author of the book and had the factories entire stock converted into this new precursor and shipped a bit to Australia and the rest to Europe. The author of the book was an Australian cook the Dutch guy met when they were both in jail in the US a decade or so earlier.
Unfortunately the dutch cook had a bad stroke and became basically a vegetable, and the Australian guy got busted running the largest MDMA lab my country had ever seen (He pulled off a single reaction yielding more than 500kg of MDMA) and got 25 years hard time in maximum security. You can write to him in prison and he responds, his name is Steven Spaliviero.
____________________________________________________________________
Def not one pot he just convert GLYCIDATE in a 2 step reaction... the 1 pot as described is TRULY almost like watching a solar system of planets align. ‘Elegant’ is a good word for it, too. It’s the sort of thing that anyone [any organic chemist] could have come up with once it’s explained to you, but really, the first person to come up with this [method] had quite a stroke of inspiration ..NOONE on the hive has a 1 pot... it has to make ketone first
Another novel route is dutch labs starting with helional Cas number 1205-17-0 around with the surge in people reporting mehmdma. Maybe this very unknown precouser could a be a source of the trash stuff.
I can see several ways they could do this transformation beckman rearrangement via oxime to amide then hofmann to get rid of one carbon to give MDA (unless the isocyanate can be trapped and reduced in situ to give MDMA which would be truly novel) or oxidation to carboxylic acid formation of amide and then hofmann to MDA. MDA can be converted to MDMA but it is not really that straight forward. There are alternatives to Hofmann but Hofmann is cheap.
All pretty poor compared to PMK glycidate, for that reason it is likely that most of the commercial MDMA is the route going PMK glycidate to PMK then reductive amination. That is the easiest route without involving controlled precursors and most likely to be used.
Glubrahnum I suggest you count the number of carbons on helional... I'm glad you have a job with fancy toys but I disagree with the idea that isobaric compounds will fool GCMS, They won't and no you don't need expensive columns, a short DB5 will separate the isomers as the paper way back in this thread showed.
MDMA is still MDMA, but what else is present is probably part of the issue and I doubt it is synthesis by-products.
This is academically interesting but I think you are looking too hard for one answer when there are several.