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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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G_Chem said:
@DocLad- My apologies for coming off like a dick about that. And indeed many labs do report in such a way, but my understanding is they are doing this because they either don't care or can't determine the salt used.

And that rock looks nice Playhard. I'm going to wager a guess there will be little if any purple in a Marquis reaction on that mdma, it'll be mostly black.

I myself last weekend obtained two very high purity samples of MDMA. One I'm fairly certain is safrole derived and one that seems piperanol derived. They both had nice crystal formation but the safrole mdma was a bit more opaque with a light amber color. I bioassayed the safrole mdma and was completely blown away.

I think I'm finally getting a good impression on the differences that certain safrole mdma batches can produce...

So here it is..

I believe "good" mdma can be had from most, if not all, synthetic routes if the purity is high enough. Some synth routes have impurities which negate the effect of the mdma whereas others (like from safrole) have impurities which strengthens and alters the experience.

Over the past few years comparing safrole mdma to mdma that was NOT made from safrole I've found the following differences.. (Note: Below the comparisons made are generalizations and are made between two groups of mdma batches, both of which I consider "good.")

- Duration. High purity not-from-safrole mdma will last 3-5 hours with a more pronounced drop off whereas safrole mdma feels more like 4-6 with a smoother drop off that retains a little energy.

- Come up/Peak. Not-from-safrole has a much calmer come up and peak, it can be intense but nowhere near safrole mdma. Safrole mdma will have you breathing heavy, needing a place to calm down so you don't puke and it feels like the come up part lasts longer. Once you hit the peak too its also much more intense and pronounced. It feels with safrole mdma there's a strong initial peak period of an hour or two that isn't really there with the other stuff.

- Empathy/Socialability. More pronounced with safrole mdma. Come to think of it, all of my deepest most therapeutic moments have been with safrole mdma. Last weekend the conversation led to childhood trauma which I've never talked with anyone before, it was beautiful..

- Energy. More pronounced with safrole mdma. It feels like they both have similar energy levels but there's less of a lethargic/flooring effect that can mask that energy.


With all that said I believe the batches of safrole mdma I've been testing on myself, while of decently high purity, still aren't as pure as these crystal clear not-from-safrole mdma shards I have been coming across.. It appears completely pure mdma might not be as "good" as slightly impure safrole mdma.

I found this theory to be further corroborated when I tested a batch of safrole mdma which was of exceedingly high purity with very very little leftover safrole in it. It felt close to high purity mdma from what I believe to be made from other routes. The differences aren't felt until more impurities/safrole is present it seems.

So with that in mind, what impurity could be the culprit to this increase in positive effect??

My guess is either dihydrosafrole or safrole itself, it's not far fetched to think these compounds could have a synergistic effect with mdma since mdma can "tie up" certain enzymes causing a change from the normal route of metabolism.

Whatever it is, after last weekend, I've decided besides experimentation I'll be using mdma which smells of safrole from now on. I used to actually avoid it as I equated the smell as "impure" but now I see that 99+% purity isn't everything.

-GC
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I agree that 'purity' does not necessarily equate with 'quality'.

As an analogy, consider sound. A sine wave gives a pure note. However, this is not particularly pleasant to listen to. A sine wave with overtones however (i.e. 'impure') produces a much more rich and pleasant effect upon the ear.

Biological organisms are not engineered for purity. A little 'fuzzyness' can go a long way towards our satisfaction...
 
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^^Beautiful analogy..

Another drug which can be somewhat similar is THC. I much prefer a good live resin with all of those good terpenes over pure 99.9% THC-A crystals. The THC-A has too clean and almost subtle in its feel, the terpenes round off the effect and add a certain level of pleasure not obtainable from the pure THC.

I think a similar thing happened in the early 90's, with MDMA that had DMMDA as an impurity.

The whole Drug X is Drug X argument is so stupid at this point it's laughable. Drugs can so easily be augmented in effect by the littlest additions or substractions of other substances.

I'm really glad though I've given smellier mdma a try cuz while the really pure stuff I was taking before is amazing, the past few stinkier (as in heavier in safrole smell, but still not overwhelming) batches I've tried have really blown me away.

Also I'm going to get some pics up soon hopefully as well..

-GC
 
I also want to note, I keep a close eye on other forums and I am noticing the arguments have shifted from everyone saying "all mdma is the same" to people quoting information they likely found here... Our information is getting out there people :)

Here's a quote from a recent Reddit thread:

""Not buying that, The original synth for MDMA used, safrole which wasn't pure being a plant extract and contained isomers among other things. The new synth uses PMK glycidate, which is going to be missing certain chemicals as its made from petrochemicals and is synthetic in nature.

So during the original MDMA synth, its going to produce other something other than MDMA, which is sadly something the new stuff is missing. I did try to obtain analytical data from MDMA seized from 90s and early 2000s to compare it to MDMA Seized from 2012 to 2018. I was told by different agency and analytical labs that the data will not be published as its not in the public's best interest, no body wants to release any data to the public.

There is defiantly a difference as I had some 2006 MDMA saved, which had a aniseed licorice smell and it also looked much different to the common 2018 moon rocks floating about. comparing the two, I loved the original MDMA synth, the new stuffs not so great.

Both MDMA samples where tested.""

-GC
 
Plus there's the fact that chemistry is not an exact science. It's all about encouraging compounds to react with other compounds to achieve the desired result. However, there are a multitude of variables which can affect the success of those reactions. A pharmaceutical laboratory can minimise those variables to such an extent where a standardised product can be achieved. But clandestine chemistry does not have such stringent controls. Hence unpredictable and variable product.
 
you are correct g chem - the mdma above and in this fresh photo im posting does indeed turn to jet black, no purple. and im guessing isnt made from safrole. going to check a video i recorded from testing the mdma i purchased at the frontend of june. pretty sure this tested purple? ill post the video over this weekend. signal isnt great at the moment, taken me long enough to upload this photo -

24ltrq0.jpg
 
@Fubar- Exactly! Even pharmaceutical labs have strange things happen that are hard to explain such as changes in polymorphs and such.. A clandestine lab doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell to reproduce time and again a standardized product.

@Playhard- My educated theory is that yes that MDMA is likely produced from piperanol based on the look of the crystal and Marquis reaction. I've seen so many batches of mdma over the years I can tell more often than not by eye these days. Again it doesn't mean it isn't amazing by any means, I would buy and eat that stuff in a second and I bet it produces a quality experience. It looks pretty pure. Your experience with that product (I remember you trying it already?) helps prove that indeed good feeling mdma can be made from piperanol or better said "not from safrole."

Actually a lot of the MDMA I've consumed over the years looked very similar to that picture.

Edit- Just looked back at your two pictures and to be honest they resemble the differences I've seen between what I presume is safrole mdma Vs piperanol MDMA. I'm guessing the product that brought you back was the one that tested purple and also wasn't quite as clear of crystals? Pretty much my experience seems to correlate well with yours.

-GC
 
G_Chem said:
@Fubar- Exactly! Even pharmaceutical labs have strange things happen that are hard to explain such as changes in polymorphs and such.. A clandestine lab doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell to reproduce time and again a standardized product.

@Playhard- My educated theory is that yes that MDMA is likely produced from piperanol based on the look of the crystal and Marquis reaction. I've seen so many batches of mdma over the years I can tell more often than not by eye these days. Again it doesn't mean it isn't amazing by any means, I would buy and eat that stuff in a second and I bet it produces a quality experience. It looks pretty pure. Your experience with that product (I remember you trying it already?) helps prove that indeed good feeling mdma can be made from piperanol or better said "not from safrole."

Actually a lot of the MDMA I've consumed over the years looked very similar to that picture.

Edit- Just looked back at your two pictures and to be honest they resemble the differences I've seen between what I presume is safrole mdma Vs piperanol MDMA. I'm guessing the product that brought you back was the one that tested purple and also wasn't quite as clear of crystals? Pretty much my experience seems to correlate well with yours.

-GC
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your correct, it was the off tint of amber/yellow like mdma that took me down memory lane and made me feel similar to my first few times i took mdma... im sure it tested purple aswell. the come up was very intense and seemed to hit me in wave after wave for quite a duration or what felt that way at the time? however the high lasted between 3-5 hours and the drop off / come down was more sudden - then a lovely afterglow, such a happy mellow experience. which i then slept with no problems (smoked a bong or two of soft polm/hash) the next few days made me feel like weight had been lifted from my shoulders.. usually im a little rough but not from this lot of mdma. this stuff at the time made me feel pure bliss and no care in the world 8( might i add i dosed 100mg and the surroundings were me at home, by myself with netflix on. a netflix series on in the background and my other half asleep in bed. - i never use mdma by myself usually.. i did however have the laptop on and a friend talking to me via skype at 1 point.

- i will be test driving this clearer glass tomorrow night and will report back? i dont doubt what your saying is right though. might i ask where in the world you are g chem?
 
PlayHard said:
vep6qq.jpg


^ this is product i got from a local source who bought it via DW between christmas - march / april up until around may time when it was no longer available and a close friend sourced this which has a weird off tint / yellow like glass, i was sceptical at first as not a fan of "cola". however this isnt cola, this is the cleaner product ive been speaking of. 90mg/100mg had me in a state of pure bliss. photo below :

2rhnqrq.jpg
(im sorry for this photo not been as clear as the other, this clearly show's these are'nt the same product. off tint yellow/tan like & clear white)

both very clean and different from each other in terms of high, and comedown.
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^ the second photo is the amber/yellow i speak of. and gave me a feeling of sheer bliss, i still have some of this and will no doubt revert back to it after i try the clearer sample handed to me. the smell of the two are very different from each other might i add? the clearer glass is quite a over powering smell
 
GChem and Playhard, what you are saying correlates with my observations as well. The new DW MDMA that I enjoyed is off-white in color, and the "sleepy" MDMA is a more pure white. Another sample I had access to years ago that smelled like safrole was a tan color, and I enjoyed it more as well. Sorry I still have not uploaded pics. I will soon.

GChem, your observations about the experience are pretty similar to mine as well.

Wish we could get some more updates from Glubra and see if he has uncovered any other tidbits with his testing. I have not gotten any more updates re: lab testing yet.
 
Also, I was talking to another "old-timer." He has encountered MDMA since the 90s, but from a different region than me. He said he had never noted the safrole smell before. Surprising to me, especially considering that he had access during the 90s. But, I think it just highlights how different experiences can be across regions.
 
I find it interesting that safrole is also contained in nutmeg, and nutmeg has psychoactive effects as well.
 
It's interesting.

The batches of MDMA that I have purified with A/B extractions had higher purity than the original substance, but for some reason it was a less potent and less trippy product.


DocLad
 
Haha I much appreciate that FUBAR.

And where I live is a few different places but pretty much I hang out along the northern border of the US. Region definitely does effect what you get by a lot, although having the right connections helps too. For instance I just picked up a couple G6 presses that are highly regarded from SoCal, around 2000 miles from the source.. It takes a bit of both to work in your favor.

I should also mention I think my summary above could use a little tweaking, it's really hard to pinpoint the exact differences at times. I feel I may edit the duration part a bit cuz it does seem like the safrole MDMA drops off fast too but there's this residual good feel that allows for additional partying whereas it feels the cleaner not-from-safrole stuff doesn't have that as much. Hard to explain..

But I find it interesting our conclusions seem to all be very similar to each other's. I think I may be getting an idea on how the crystals look different too. Now I could be wrong, but I notice the good safrole MDMA has more jagged/rippled lines and edges with few defined edges and sides, looks more like a rock than a crystal. The cleaner, still good but not AS good mdma, tends to look more quartz like with a clearer whiter coloration and often a "blockier, chunkier" shape with more defined sides and edges. It's a look that's hard to describe but I feel the two pics you provide PlayHard kinda show the differences I'm attempting to describe.

My guess is that variation in crystal structure comes down to safrole as an impurity.

I do believe safrole has the potential to be psychoactive. There's many anecdotal reports to suggest so which I may dig around for and post here.

-GC
 
weighed and took 100mg of the clearer sample given to me around 9:10pm. started to come up slowly around 9:50pm. will report back most likely either later or tomorrow with my verdict :\ i was going to weigh up an additional 50mg of "amber/yellow" safrole mdma incase i felt like redosing but wont mix the two this time round.
 
^^^Much appreciated, keep the experiment variables to a minimum. Excited to hear the results..

@Doclad- Yea I've definitely noticed the impurities ramp up the trippy aspect for sure. This is why even impure MDMA can be sold as "sass" and people think it's MDA. I actually had a bud a week ago who bought and tried some "sass" that he thought was MDA and turned out it was likely MDMA after I hit it with the Simons reagent. I've seen a lot of people talk about increased potency as well, DMT is also subject to a similar phenomenon.

And I've got one more comment for you indigo but gotta come back later on that lol, be back..

-GC
 
I'll be here.

Really trying to resist the urge to try more of that DW product. A three week break is NOT my thing. I don't think I have played around with a break that short in well over a decade, maybe longer.

I think the fact that I am here, just three weeks later, eager to do it again speaks to the more authentic nature of the experience.
 
I just wanted to add to your comment regarding region and the old school 90's raver talking about the lack of smell. I do think your right that certain places just never got MDMA made from safrole even in the 90's. In the mid 90's PMK (MDP2P the intermediate from safrole) became the more common choice for some European labs pumping out the goods, so it's definitely possible. While European MDMA definitely supplied the US there was also a good amount of domestic MDMA as well, just depended on where ya lived and who you knew.

I'll also say back when I first started some of the pills people did talk about as having a sassy smell but my nose was so fucked back then I couldn't smell shit. So in my mind if someone had never told me they smelled I would of thought all of it was odorless. Nowadays I can finally smell the difference, and all except one odd batch that smelled weird and chemically (still have some, never tried it but others said it was good..) has either been odorless or smells of safrole. I'll admit I'm weirded out by the chemical smelling batch too despite positive reviews. It looks strange as well with a sandy look with zero crystals, one small chunk was a brown color all of it a sandy consistency. Thinking about sending it in for testing..

Man I'd say this.. Only roll if you feel you can with everything going on in your life. Sounds like you hold off well so I don't doubt a short break then back won't be detrimental and won't become a habit. But also if you feel even a hint of guilt over if I'd say wait.

-GC
 
maaaaan Le Junk youre old as shit!!! haha jk but youve been doing mdma 12 years before i was born. The roll you described to start off this discussion gave me goosebumps. I think if i tried that stuff, i would cry out of a happiness explosion; or watch tv :/ idk. Honestly really good way of describing this. Obviously havent read EVERYTHING here but yeah some very knowledgeable folks in here. Every time ive done "legit MDMA" it was amber brownish, with the exception of a couple times i got it from a buddy even before that stuff, where it was a blueish green tint. I also havent heard too many people use the term Gacked OUT haha but buddys back home in Portland OR get Gacked like there aint no difference unfortunately... so i'm familiar with the term and feeling. God damn though. That 80's recipe sounds incredible.
 
G_Chem did you done a blind test of Safrol vs Not-from-Safrol MDMA? Just ask someone to give you MDMA and you try to guess what it was Safrol or PMK

And than just calculate how much you was able to guess Safrol MDMA from PMK MDMA.

If from 10 times you will be able clearly to differentiate PMK from Safrol, experiment would be called clean.

Otherwise its just subjective speculations.
 
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