LucidSDreamr
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its too blurry i can't see any splitting
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MDMA &
Empathogenic
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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?
- Thread starter Le Junk
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its too blurry i can't see any splitting
Yea I'd agree, while I don't know what I'm looking at I get the impression it'd be hard to read for someone that does. But good job guys trying to find a way to do some testing 
hope something pans out.. And also interested to hear how it goes for you Indigo although I've heard people lie about that to sell product because people are aware "safrole mdma" is supposedly the bees knees, so it could be one of those situations.
Really cool to see all the progress being made, sorry I haven't been around but that'll change soon..
-GC
hope something pans out.. And also interested to hear how it goes for you Indigo although I've heard people lie about that to sell product because people are aware "safrole mdma" is supposedly the bees knees, so it could be one of those situations.Really cool to see all the progress being made, sorry I haven't been around but that'll change soon..
-GC
indigoaura
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Yes, that is definitely the concern.
In regards to the DW product... In appearance, it is a semi transparent champaign color. Small crystals. The crystals are obvious and visible, but very small. There is a slight safrole smell; not as strong as an old bag of pills, but it is definitely there. It is also a fairly dense product. 100 mg fills about 1/2 of a small capsule. In contrast to the older product, which is very light and 100 mg fills the same capsule. Also in contrast, the older product looks more like a powder or a flour. It does not appear crystalline like this DW product. A friend suggested that the new product appears to be hydrous while the old product appears to be anhydrous.
Excited to hear if you find any difference at all so am I correct in that you've been essentially taking the same fluffy powder MDMA with MDP2Pol as an impurity since like 05? This should be interesting..
Sounds like the product I come across only stuff I get is typically closer to white/clear, but small crystals is a good sign as it might mean the chemist didn't try to fuse the crystals (often combined with other substances to help form the big "crystals" or rocks as they should be called). Don't get me wrong there's some bomb fused mdma out there but it can vary.
When and where do you plan on trying it? What's your use been like this past year or two?
The slight safrole smell is good, I find the best product has it present but isn't overwhelming.
-GC
so am I correct in that you've been essentially taking the same fluffy powder MDMA with MDP2Pol as an impurity since like 05? This should be interesting..Sounds like the product I come across only stuff I get is typically closer to white/clear, but small crystals is a good sign as it might mean the chemist didn't try to fuse the crystals (often combined with other substances to help form the big "crystals" or rocks as they should be called). Don't get me wrong there's some bomb fused mdma out there but it can vary.
When and where do you plan on trying it? What's your use been like this past year or two?
The slight safrole smell is good, I find the best product has it present but isn't overwhelming.
-GC
indigoaura
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Hi G_Chem,
Yes, I have had access to the same product since 2005. However, when I reported the impurity to my supplier, he said changes were put into effect (acetone washes among other things) to improve on the final purity of the product and remove the MDP2Pol. Despite this, it was always the sleepy experience (sometimes a bit better than others) I reported previously. In retrospect, it seems quite foolish that I did not send more to be tested to see how much the product was improved. Guess I could still do that, for informational purposes.
I did briefly have access to a different product. That was a tan crystal. I liked it better, but I did not have access to it for very long, and mostly just tried low doses at concerts and whatnot. Never really tested out higher doses.
This DW product was sent from the San Fran area. Hoping those San Fran hippies know what's up.
My pattern of use for the past decade or so has been to use MDMA around 3-4 times per year. Most recently, I took MDMA on NYE, and before that, on Halloween. Both times were low doses with no depression afterwards, although I did get that upset stomach nonsense after NYE.
I will be doing it at home with my vinyls and sound-system.
What do you make of how dense and heavy it is? Should I start with the same 100 mg dose I typically start with? I was thinking I would, to get a good comparison with the other product.
-indigoaura
Yes, I have had access to the same product since 2005. However, when I reported the impurity to my supplier, he said changes were put into effect (acetone washes among other things) to improve on the final purity of the product and remove the MDP2Pol. Despite this, it was always the sleepy experience (sometimes a bit better than others) I reported previously. In retrospect, it seems quite foolish that I did not send more to be tested to see how much the product was improved. Guess I could still do that, for informational purposes.
I did briefly have access to a different product. That was a tan crystal. I liked it better, but I did not have access to it for very long, and mostly just tried low doses at concerts and whatnot. Never really tested out higher doses.
This DW product was sent from the San Fran area. Hoping those San Fran hippies know what's up.
My pattern of use for the past decade or so has been to use MDMA around 3-4 times per year. Most recently, I took MDMA on NYE, and before that, on Halloween. Both times were low doses with no depression afterwards, although I did get that upset stomach nonsense after NYE.
I will be doing it at home with my vinyls and sound-system.
What do you make of how dense and heavy it is? Should I start with the same 100 mg dose I typically start with? I was thinking I would, to get a good comparison with the other product.
-indigoaura
The density sounds right, I've found that even high quality powder mdma has a high density compared to other drugs. Typically .1g will not fill a capsule, unless they are the really small ones.
I've got high hopes for this experiment although setting might be a bit light. I find my rolls are always a little lackluster even with amazing product when I'm staying at home. Everyone's different though and some people love it. I guess we know if you roll good at home then you'd be going hard in a more engaging setting.
100mg would be good at least initially for comparison but I find these days as I've gotten older my dose has gone from 100mg plus 20-60mg booster to 120mg plus 20-60mg booster. That little jump has made a big difference in reliability of my rolls and just the right intensity.
San Fran sounds like it has a decent scene (been listening to artists from there lol) so I'm hoping that is a reflection of the MD quality.
So when's the big day?
-GC
I've got high hopes for this experiment although setting might be a bit light. I find my rolls are always a little lackluster even with amazing product when I'm staying at home. Everyone's different though and some people love it. I guess we know if you roll good at home then you'd be going hard in a more engaging setting.
100mg would be good at least initially for comparison but I find these days as I've gotten older my dose has gone from 100mg plus 20-60mg booster to 120mg plus 20-60mg booster. That little jump has made a big difference in reliability of my rolls and just the right intensity.
San Fran sounds like it has a decent scene (been listening to artists from there lol) so I'm hoping that is a reflection of the MD quality.
So when's the big day?
-GC
indigoaura
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I've always been a home roller, either my own home or a house party. Back in the "good ol days," I remember getting all confused with my electronic cords while I was trying to plug up headphones and music. Everything always got tangled and difficult to maneuver! I actually find that I am far less comfortable when I am out. Standing around at a concert or live event gets tiring, and I just want to find a blanket somewhere to snuggle.
I do think 120 mg would be a better dose for me, after 18 years of use. I have tried that dose of the old product, and it still does not get me where I need to be. So, I suppose I could start with 120 mg of this new product and still be able to compare it to the old stuff.
Before I can set a date, I want to see the lab results. Too much fentanyl and bullshit going around for me to just try it without an analysis. After that, I will wait for a weekend when work is light the next week and give it a go. Hoping to have a friend participating with me. He has hardly used MDMA at all for the last 8 years because he did not like the product. Maybe he has rolled twice in the last 8 years. Interestingly, the last time he rolled with me he had hardly any effect, despite his break of many years. He complained of the same issues as me, lack of empathy etc.
I do think 120 mg would be a better dose for me, after 18 years of use. I have tried that dose of the old product, and it still does not get me where I need to be. So, I suppose I could start with 120 mg of this new product and still be able to compare it to the old stuff.
Before I can set a date, I want to see the lab results. Too much fentanyl and bullshit going around for me to just try it without an analysis. After that, I will wait for a weekend when work is light the next week and give it a go. Hoping to have a friend participating with me. He has hardly used MDMA at all for the last 8 years because he did not like the product. Maybe he has rolled twice in the last 8 years. Interestingly, the last time he rolled with me he had hardly any effect, despite his break of many years. He complained of the same issues as me, lack of empathy etc.
I feel ya man, I'm a little of both.. When I'm up on it I wanna be out and dancing or hiking/out in nature, but once I start to comedown snuggling up under a blanket with copious amounts of cannabis sounds amazing. A little k never hurts either 
My last roll was amazing and most of it was spent just me and my girl in a rented airbnb house chatting up shit and getting down to two 12" subs. I was worried it wouldn't be stimulating enough but got exactly what I was looking for. (Mind you many other drugs were involved but you know an MDMA roll when ya feel whether other drugs are involved or not.)
And much respect on waiting for the analysis, I think we could all take a lesson in that including myself..
-GC
My last roll was amazing and most of it was spent just me and my girl in a rented airbnb house chatting up shit and getting down to two 12" subs. I was worried it wouldn't be stimulating enough but got exactly what I was looking for. (Mind you many other drugs were involved but you know an MDMA roll when ya feel whether other drugs are involved or not.)
And much respect on waiting for the analysis, I think we could all take a lesson in that including myself..
-GC
Well, I have an anecdotal update. After a nice two year break from MDMA I decided to go for it.
I took 100mg of my 75:25 acetone:IPA washed MDMA along with 50mg of clear MDA at 11PM
Had the "oh my god" feeling about 30m later and was peaking not much longer after that. I had eaten ~2 hours prior. Had the eye wiggles, not much lethargy and danced for a bit to some shpongle. After about two hours of this I decided to take a redose of 30mg MDA, 30mg MDMA and also took 225ug of AL-LAD. Put on some Hallucinogen Wicked and decided to hit some n2o.
Blasted into hyperspace. I think I listened to Wicked twice and hit a few balloons while having it on. Just the most euphoric, sublime, astonishing experience ever.
I didn't end up sleeping until probably 8-9AM and then slept a few hours during the day. Went to bed early, slept a good 12 hours and woke up feeling great. I remember the original material prior to washing, it wasn't super great but after washing there definitely seemed like a marked difference (though 2 years off of serotonergic drugs probably helped). Come up was definitely faster. Starting to peak after 30m should not have been affected by the MDA taken). I know it wasn't a pure MDMA experience but fuck was it good.
MDMA + MDA + AL-LAD + N2O + Weed = God
I took 100mg of my 75:25 acetone:IPA washed MDMA along with 50mg of clear MDA at 11PM
Had the "oh my god" feeling about 30m later and was peaking not much longer after that. I had eaten ~2 hours prior. Had the eye wiggles, not much lethargy and danced for a bit to some shpongle. After about two hours of this I decided to take a redose of 30mg MDA, 30mg MDMA and also took 225ug of AL-LAD. Put on some Hallucinogen Wicked and decided to hit some n2o.
Blasted into hyperspace. I think I listened to Wicked twice and hit a few balloons while having it on. Just the most euphoric, sublime, astonishing experience ever.
I didn't end up sleeping until probably 8-9AM and then slept a few hours during the day. Went to bed early, slept a good 12 hours and woke up feeling great. I remember the original material prior to washing, it wasn't super great but after washing there definitely seemed like a marked difference (though 2 years off of serotonergic drugs probably helped). Come up was definitely faster. Starting to peak after 30m should not have been affected by the MDA taken). I know it wasn't a pure MDMA experience but fuck was it good.
MDMA + MDA + AL-LAD + N2O + Weed = God
Haha yes my man that combo is something else glad ya had a good one , and interesting.. Although there's many variables as I'm sure your already aware that make it hard to get anything definitive. If the MDA weren't tossed in I feel it'd have more weight but good crystal MDA is like everything rolling was meant to be in a home setting. The two year hiatus being another variable as well but I guess with the crappy MDMA even breaks don't help.. Whatd the product look like before washes and was any substantial weight lost after?
With all that said I believe theres still some merit to this experiment. 5-MAPB which in my opinion is a beautiful substance when pure, I've had similar findings. I sourced from two vendors, one very pure batch that was everything good described about the drug and one that was bad, mongy, non euphoric or empathetic etc. Both vendors had great reviews and both tested close to the same on reagents. Pure batch active in 10-90mg range, impure 150-500mg range.
A few washes using acetone and denatured ethanol (not mixed solvent, separate, also ethanol was a poor choice due to solubility in retrospect) on the impure product resulted in a much better experience that had more qualities related to the pure batch with stronger dosage. Although it felt more cleaning needed to be done as much was still trapped in the crystals. The oil pulled from washes was nasty dark red and smelled of amix between safrole, vanilla and almonds but in a nasty chemical kind of way.
Id like to see more anecdotal experiences on washes and subsequent effects. I may dig around a bit.
Thanks for sharing that! I feel your on to something and a dry acetone wash on crushed up ecstasy tablet or crystal is not beyond most people's capabilities.
-GC
, and interesting.. Although there's many variables as I'm sure your already aware that make it hard to get anything definitive. If the MDA weren't tossed in I feel it'd have more weight but good crystal MDA is like everything rolling was meant to be in a home setting. The two year hiatus being another variable as well but I guess with the crappy MDMA even breaks don't help.. Whatd the product look like before washes and was any substantial weight lost after?With all that said I believe theres still some merit to this experiment. 5-MAPB which in my opinion is a beautiful substance when pure, I've had similar findings. I sourced from two vendors, one very pure batch that was everything good described about the drug and one that was bad, mongy, non euphoric or empathetic etc. Both vendors had great reviews and both tested close to the same on reagents. Pure batch active in 10-90mg range, impure 150-500mg range.
A few washes using acetone and denatured ethanol (not mixed solvent, separate, also ethanol was a poor choice due to solubility in retrospect) on the impure product resulted in a much better experience that had more qualities related to the pure batch with stronger dosage. Although it felt more cleaning needed to be done as much was still trapped in the crystals. The oil pulled from washes was nasty dark red and smelled of amix between safrole, vanilla and almonds but in a nasty chemical kind of way.
Id like to see more anecdotal experiences on washes and subsequent effects. I may dig around a bit.
Thanks for sharing that! I feel your on to something and a dry acetone wash on crushed up ecstasy tablet or crystal is not beyond most people's capabilities.
-GC
Le Junk
Bluelighter
Alright chemists, Ive got a g of the new school crap. Medium brownish/tan looking crystals that smell strongly of safrole. Tested with the Simons, Mecke, Marquis and Mandelin came back as MDMA. I havent tried it yet but some friends did with the usual responses. Little to no pupil dilation, lack of any real love and empathy etc. So whats the next move here? I have several chems leftover from my cocaine production days. Diethyl ether, anhydrous acetone, chloroform and hydrochloric acid. In an attempt to try and turn this crappy MDMA into old school MDMA, what should I do?
I would take pictures and weight the new school product and then perform:
- acetone wash, then pic and weight again;
- a/b extraction, then recrystallization, then pic and weight;
- crush crystal to fine powder, then acetone wash, then recrystallize, then pic and weight.
Then: encapsulate 100 mg of both impure and new product and perform double blind test on your friends and post results.
What do you think Le Junk?
- acetone wash, then pic and weight again;
- a/b extraction, then recrystallization, then pic and weight;
- crush crystal to fine powder, then acetone wash, then recrystallize, then pic and weight.
Then: encapsulate 100 mg of both impure and new product and perform double blind test on your friends and post results.
What do you think Le Junk?
Le Junk
Bluelighter
Sounds good to me. What method of A/B extraction should I perform specifically? Ammonia route?
indigoaura
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Can't wait for these results.
indigoaura
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Update:
A friend who is less cautious than I am decided to test out the DW product after a black marquis test reaction. This is the same friend I mentioned before, who had no eye dilation or euphoria on the other product. Decided to test the same amount, 100 mg followed by 100 mg.
Similar to last time, the first 100 mg had little impact on him. No eye dilation and minimal effects. However, on the second dose, he had visible eye jitters and jaw clenching. He also reported a feeling of happiness/euphoria. He was visibly affected, but still had minimal eye dilation. This friend typically NEVER sits down. His typical behavior is to walk around and talk to people. However, about 1 hour into the second capsule, he had to sit down and began asking a lot of open, caring, questions about my life with a huge smile on his face.
He said that he felt this product felt like 75% old-school E and 25% sleepy E. From my perspective as an outside observer, that seemed about right.
So, seems promising, but not perfect. I am still waiting on Edata to post the lab results before I try it.
A friend who is less cautious than I am decided to test out the DW product after a black marquis test reaction. This is the same friend I mentioned before, who had no eye dilation or euphoria on the other product. Decided to test the same amount, 100 mg followed by 100 mg.
Similar to last time, the first 100 mg had little impact on him. No eye dilation and minimal effects. However, on the second dose, he had visible eye jitters and jaw clenching. He also reported a feeling of happiness/euphoria. He was visibly affected, but still had minimal eye dilation. This friend typically NEVER sits down. His typical behavior is to walk around and talk to people. However, about 1 hour into the second capsule, he had to sit down and began asking a lot of open, caring, questions about my life with a huge smile on his face.
He said that he felt this product felt like 75% old-school E and 25% sleepy E. From my perspective as an outside observer, that seemed about right.
So, seems promising, but not perfect. I am still waiting on Edata to post the lab results before I try it.
Glubrahnum
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How long did you store that Diethyl Ether ?
@Indigo, much appreciated man. Hmmm the dosage seems a bit much unless he's a bigger guy and used to bigger doses. But still better than what it sounds like you've had before. Also I wonder if a different setting would have been more stimulating.. We'll know better once a few more experiences have been had on it.
So for that marquis reaction, was it straight black with no purple or was there purple before going black?
Some purple before going black is sometimes indicative of safrole produced MDMA. Straight black with no purple has been talked as "not being as good" by many on here.
-GC
So for that marquis reaction, was it straight black with no purple or was there purple before going black?
Some purple before going black is sometimes indicative of safrole produced MDMA. Straight black with no purple has been talked as "not being as good" by many on here.
-GC
Ionized
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Ok recent experience with current MDMA dutch salt. Subject has had numerous experiences with MDMA since the 90's and is familiar with the "good old MDMA".
Substance: MDMA Dutch salt advertised at least 84% pure (salt is tan colored rocks).
Reagent Tests: Marquis fizzles directly to black (no purple). Mandelin straight to black. Mecke straight to dark green. Simon straight to cobalt blue. Everything looks good to go.
00:00 - On a totally empty stomach ingestion of 140 mg put inside a capsule with some water.
00:40 - Come up begins of medium intensity.
01:00 - full effect: extreme calmness and relaxation but zero uplifting energy. Basically just a strong chill-out feeling accompanied by drowsiness and lot of yawning, too. Seems like pure serotonin release. Pupil dilation is average. It's there but not very strong. Music is enhanced but not even half as much as expected. Absolutely zero feelings of bonding or increased empathy.
03:00 - Effects start diminishing.
03:15 - Comedown begins.
04:00 - pretty much every effect is gone. At this point subject feels almost totally sober. Pupil dilation is much less but remains noticeable.
09:30 - Pupil dilation is completely back to normal. Afterglow is minimal and mostly feels like a small dose of Xanax. Lasts for about a day.
Based on the above observation the effects of the pure Dutch MDMA salt were very different than the typical happy, uplifting, bonding, characteristics of MDMA. Lets not forget that this MDMA passed all 4 reagent tests.
Substance: MDMA Dutch salt advertised at least 84% pure (salt is tan colored rocks).
Reagent Tests: Marquis fizzles directly to black (no purple). Mandelin straight to black. Mecke straight to dark green. Simon straight to cobalt blue. Everything looks good to go.
00:00 - On a totally empty stomach ingestion of 140 mg put inside a capsule with some water.
00:40 - Come up begins of medium intensity.
01:00 - full effect: extreme calmness and relaxation but zero uplifting energy. Basically just a strong chill-out feeling accompanied by drowsiness and lot of yawning, too. Seems like pure serotonin release. Pupil dilation is average. It's there but not very strong. Music is enhanced but not even half as much as expected. Absolutely zero feelings of bonding or increased empathy.
03:00 - Effects start diminishing.
03:15 - Comedown begins.
04:00 - pretty much every effect is gone. At this point subject feels almost totally sober. Pupil dilation is much less but remains noticeable.
09:30 - Pupil dilation is completely back to normal. Afterglow is minimal and mostly feels like a small dose of Xanax. Lasts for about a day.
Based on the above observation the effects of the pure Dutch MDMA salt were very different than the typical happy, uplifting, bonding, characteristics of MDMA. Lets not forget that this MDMA passed all 4 reagent tests.
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