EntheoDjinn
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1000% is exactly the same 100,000% or even 1,000,000%, so must be the super-truth!
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MDMA &
Empathogenic
Drugs
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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?
- Thread starter Le Junk
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Chonciceptor
Greenlighter
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I agree, setting does not matter when the stuff is legit. Also, I?ve had product from the DW that looked exactly like the clear rocks pictured above, and it was absolute shit! Just my 2 cents lol.
Was it tested? Also I don't know what people mean by "shit" sometimes.
No/low empathy, no/low love, no/low desire to connect, no/low energy, premature and instant comedown, propensity for negativity and meh-ness, etc.
All the MDMA I've had since late 2015 has been varying combinations of these. Some experiences better than others, almost to what I know it can be, others pretty fucking worthless. At this point, I trust 6-APB more and feel more empathy with it than the "MDMA" I have had access to.
Ah scratch that, I had amazing stuff spring of 2017, which was found in Idaho. Besides that, everything else has been shit to meh.
epic11
Bluelighter
Yes i do, however the saffrole did not come to fruition this time. Now, I do have 2 separate batches of md im testing with at this time. First tests happened recently with 125mg of 84% pure DUTCH (the stuff in question id assume) and 125 mg was "Not enough"of an initial dose with my tester. Why would that be? 120 of saffrole based IMO will kick your ass. Why does 125 of this dutch stuff not seem like enough?
Le Junk
Bluelighter
Great question! Thats why all of these Dutch pills are excessively high milligrams. Theyre having to make up for something thats missing. 120 mgs of Dutch MDMA isnt enough to make it happen. Its all part of the missing link.
indigoaura
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Yeah, I have even gone up to 135 mg of the stuff I have access to and it is not enough. It does not put you over the thresh-hold to where you need to be, and neither does a re-dose.
indigoaura
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Also, shezinphx, I agree. Quality MDMA makes you feel amazing nomatter what is going on or where you are. I recall one year being on the verge of breaking up with my partner at that time, and not even wanting to go out, but ending up at this NYE party where I ended up having a blast due to quality MDMA. I could not have gone into it with a worse mindframe or mood, but once it hit, everything was oh so fine.
Le Junk
Bluelighter
Exactly! That would not have been the same outcome with todays MDMA. You would have just ended up more irritated than you were to begin with.
Le Junk
Bluelighter
Also, remember touch and feel with old school MDMA? Tongue kissing, sex, rubbing etc was so intensified! It was 1000 fold over normal touch and feel. I dont get any of that with the new MDMA. None.
Don pitote
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Is there any way to avoid getting bad E?
I've only done mdma 3 times and have the same opinion of Teslas and supremes as OP. The one good high I did have had was a G6 winnie the pooh and it was only a little more than half the pill which is only around 200mg but i took the entire tesla and supreme which were both a lot more and I didn't feel nearly as good.
I've only done mdma 3 times and have the same opinion of Teslas and supremes as OP. The one good high I did have had was a G6 winnie the pooh and it was only a little more than half the pill which is only around 200mg but i took the entire tesla and supreme which were both a lot more and I didn't feel nearly as good.
Le Junk
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babooon87
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With this new mdma it feels as if the dopamine component of the roll is missing. The comeup is the same as a high dose of proper mdma ( intense, uncomfortable, anxious, nauseating, feeling cold, shaky etc ) but with good mdma this stage only lasts about 10-15 min after which you get the dopamine kick and you start rolling and feel awesome.
With the new stuff it is like you stay stuck in that comeup state for 1-2 hours and it never really settles and becomes comfortable or euphoric. The huge dose they put in those pills makes this comeup feeling very very intense and you feel like " oh my god... i'm going to roll sooo hard ! " but you never do. The comeup just goes on and on and on. When it finally settles and you stop feeling like shit you are already coming down.
I have tested the dopamine theory by taking methamphetamine on top of one of these new rolls and like I expected the experience felt much more like a real roll.
So yeah, I am also of the opinion that the more " psychedelic " isomer is favored in that synthesis over the " stimulant " one or something else about it inhibits dopamine from being released like it should. It has always been a consensus that dopamine play an important role in the mdma magic as similar compounds that are devoid of dopamine activity like mbdb or mdai are reported as lacking and even dysphoric.
I also did the comparison as I recently had the chance to get legit saffrole smelling old school mdma as well as the new stuff from another contact and the difference was like night and day. The saffrole stuff felt great, smooth, euphoric, empathetic, social. I had completely forgotten how good mdma is supposed to feel like. I had swore off this drug for a few years now because it just did not feel that good anymore. I thought the problem was in my own chemistry which seemed pretty odd because I never came close to abusing the stuff. The experience just changed overnight around 2010. Tried it again after 3-4 years of abstinence and it still wasnt any better. I had come to the conclusion that I just didnt enjoy rolling anymore because I'm too old for this shit. I was wrong and it turns out it's the drug that changed and not my brain.
I also noticed like most people that my pupils hardly dilate with the new material. Again, I thought it was my personal chemistry that changed because I remembered having HUGE pupils when the rolls were good before 2010. In fact, when I took the good stuff a month ago my pupils dilated once again. I also get no eye wiggles with the new synth which is one of the effects I always had very strongly and consistently.
I think we are starting to have more than enough anecdotal reports describing the exact same experience to keep dismissing it as being nostalgia, tolerance and expectations playing with our heads. I also talked with a younger coworker that started using mdma in the last few years and he keeps telling me how he has difficult comedowns immediately after the experience from as little as one 100 mg cap. This is not normal, especially with that low of a dose. You never get a comedown immediately after or even the day after with good mdma. In fact, you feel great and in a good mood the day after and when you do get a comedown it is because you took a very large amount and it comes 2-3 days later.
Hope we get to the bottom of this somehow. Interesting discussion to say the least.
With the new stuff it is like you stay stuck in that comeup state for 1-2 hours and it never really settles and becomes comfortable or euphoric. The huge dose they put in those pills makes this comeup feeling very very intense and you feel like " oh my god... i'm going to roll sooo hard ! " but you never do. The comeup just goes on and on and on. When it finally settles and you stop feeling like shit you are already coming down.
I have tested the dopamine theory by taking methamphetamine on top of one of these new rolls and like I expected the experience felt much more like a real roll.
So yeah, I am also of the opinion that the more " psychedelic " isomer is favored in that synthesis over the " stimulant " one or something else about it inhibits dopamine from being released like it should. It has always been a consensus that dopamine play an important role in the mdma magic as similar compounds that are devoid of dopamine activity like mbdb or mdai are reported as lacking and even dysphoric.
I also did the comparison as I recently had the chance to get legit saffrole smelling old school mdma as well as the new stuff from another contact and the difference was like night and day. The saffrole stuff felt great, smooth, euphoric, empathetic, social. I had completely forgotten how good mdma is supposed to feel like. I had swore off this drug for a few years now because it just did not feel that good anymore. I thought the problem was in my own chemistry which seemed pretty odd because I never came close to abusing the stuff. The experience just changed overnight around 2010. Tried it again after 3-4 years of abstinence and it still wasnt any better. I had come to the conclusion that I just didnt enjoy rolling anymore because I'm too old for this shit. I was wrong and it turns out it's the drug that changed and not my brain.
I also noticed like most people that my pupils hardly dilate with the new material. Again, I thought it was my personal chemistry that changed because I remembered having HUGE pupils when the rolls were good before 2010. In fact, when I took the good stuff a month ago my pupils dilated once again. I also get no eye wiggles with the new synth which is one of the effects I always had very strongly and consistently.
I think we are starting to have more than enough anecdotal reports describing the exact same experience to keep dismissing it as being nostalgia, tolerance and expectations playing with our heads. I also talked with a younger coworker that started using mdma in the last few years and he keeps telling me how he has difficult comedowns immediately after the experience from as little as one 100 mg cap. This is not normal, especially with that low of a dose. You never get a comedown immediately after or even the day after with good mdma. In fact, you feel great and in a good mood the day after and when you do get a comedown it is because you took a very large amount and it comes 2-3 days later.
Hope we get to the bottom of this somehow. Interesting discussion to say the least.
indigoaura
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Le Junk, good to see you again!
Yes, this, 100%. In fact, at that NYE party I mentioned, I walked in wanting to break up with my partner and feeling super upset and pissed, but ended up in an orgy with some other friends before the night was over. That's how it went back then. From feeling like shit to group sex from a pill. Everything sensory was better. There was a reason I used to bring little velvet stuffed animals with me to parties, or slinkys, or silk robes. It felt good to touch things in general. That component is 100% lacking in the newer stuff.
Baboon87, thanks for the great post. You hit on many of the same main points we have all been discussing for some time. You are right, there is more than enough anecdotal evidence here. I also think you are right to think about the dopamine element being a factor. I agree that it feels like you get stuck somewhere before the peak kicks in. For me, the comeup is different than before, not as intense, but it never crosses the threshold into full ROLLING.
Yes, this, 100%. In fact, at that NYE party I mentioned, I walked in wanting to break up with my partner and feeling super upset and pissed, but ended up in an orgy with some other friends before the night was over. That's how it went back then. From feeling like shit to group sex from a pill. Everything sensory was better. There was a reason I used to bring little velvet stuffed animals with me to parties, or slinkys, or silk robes. It felt good to touch things in general. That component is 100% lacking in the newer stuff.
Baboon87, thanks for the great post. You hit on many of the same main points we have all been discussing for some time. You are right, there is more than enough anecdotal evidence here. I also think you are right to think about the dopamine element being a factor. I agree that it feels like you get stuck somewhere before the peak kicks in. For me, the comeup is different than before, not as intense, but it never crosses the threshold into full ROLLING.
babooon87
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By the way I find the bad stuff to have less of a comedown than the good. I do feel scattered and kind of weird immediately after but I feel no after effects the days after. This doesn't come as a surprise because the high does not feel euphoric enough to cause significant neurotransmitter depletion. What people describe as "LTC" (had never heard that term before reading this thread) is more in line with the massive depletion following serious abuse of the good stuff imo.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028390817304707?via=ihub
" High doses of R-MDMA do not produce hyperthermia or signs of neurotoxicity in mice."
" Lower dopamine release may explain why R-MDMA lacks these adverse effects of SR-MDMA."
This info seems to support what I just described about the lesser comedown and tha lack of depamine. I believe the isomer theory more than any other. I don't buy that impurities can change the effects to that extent.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0028390817304707?via=ihub
" High doses of R-MDMA do not produce hyperthermia or signs of neurotoxicity in mice."
" Lower dopamine release may explain why R-MDMA lacks these adverse effects of SR-MDMA."
This info seems to support what I just described about the lesser comedown and tha lack of depamine. I believe the isomer theory more than any other. I don't buy that impurities can change the effects to that extent.
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Impurities can and do change the nature of the experience. Whether it?s the issue or not is hard to know, but I?d argue there is more evidence to support impurities over isomer ratios.
The R Isomer wouldn?t be causing all these cases of LTC popping up, I?d assume. It?s not shorter acting like the new stuff. It would provide an afterglow, this new stuff doesn?t.
The R-isomer doesn?t fully fit the profile.
People have found good results from purifying their crap MDMA too, further adding to the impurities theory.
I?ll keep an open mind on it but my money is still on impurities.
-GC
The R Isomer wouldn?t be causing all these cases of LTC popping up, I?d assume. It?s not shorter acting like the new stuff. It would provide an afterglow, this new stuff doesn?t.
The R-isomer doesn?t fully fit the profile.
People have found good results from purifying their crap MDMA too, further adding to the impurities theory.
I?ll keep an open mind on it but my money is still on impurities.
-GC
indigoaura
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In my experience, although the meh-DMA does not produce the depression or "suicide Tuesday" feeling of old MDMA, it does produce physical side effects that traditional MDMA does not. In particular, I experience stomach upset, nausea, indigestion, and dizziness. These were never issues for me before, even when taking high doses of MDMA in the past (5 pills in a night).
Right now, just based on everything we have talked about so far, I think there is something else in the product that is making me sick and also blocking the action of the MDMA.
Right now, just based on everything we have talked about so far, I think there is something else in the product that is making me sick and also blocking the action of the MDMA.
indigoaura
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Babooon87, would you also agree that old MDMA tended towards creating feelings of heat, but this new stuff does the opposite? I always found myself shedding clothes with the old stuff, because I got so hot. With this new stuff, I am piling on blankets and sweat shirts, because I am cold.
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