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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

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Awesome. back in the 50s we were discussing the contaminants of PMK-Glycidate which were acrylamide and glycidic acid. Then Glub tested some euro batch and found 2,3 mdp2p glycidate with shitty meth.

I certainly haven't bought MDMA in a long while but you can see my cleaning of gross product back in the 50s. Did Glub continue to test batches?
 
@anon65535 Glubra has not been able to post in awhile, unfortunately. He has missed out on a lot of the more recent developments, and we could really use his insight. We have discovered quite a bit of published research that may relate to the topic. We have established that different synthesis routes produce different byproducts, and some of those byproducts may block receptors and uptake of MDMA. We have just recently read an article that found a previously undocumented impurity, and that article theorized that impurities in PMK may be producing unwanted byproducts. You may find that article of interest here: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.forsciint.2020.110332

At this point, I am pretty convinced that much MDMA on the market has synthesis byproducts present, and that some of those byproducts are muting the experience of the roll, either in the brain or somehow in the liver. I don't think all meh is exactly the same, or that all magic is exactly the same.
 
After PMK Glycidate is converted to PMK, something must happen to the Glycidate part. If it is not removed completely by the subsequent workup, it is quite possible that this remainder is converted to toxic stuff like Acrylamide.
Also, the conversion of PMK Glycidate to PMK does not have to be 100% efficient, which would leave PMK Glycidate in the mixture. If the unreacted precursor is not removed completely by the subsequent workup, it can get amidated and its epoxy ring can be opened by subsequent reaction with Methylamine, leaving M-ALPHA-HMCA as a contaminant.

So IMO the best working theory now is that "Meh MDMA" = MDMA + toxic stuff like Acrylamide (which causes LTC) + muting agents such as the M-ALPHA-HMCA or other Hydroxy containing compunds and dimer-like molecules (which block the human monoamine trasporters).

These contaminants must be potent in very small amounts to avoid detection by GC/MS ...or undergo pyrolytic disproprtionation and masquarade as MDMA (e.g. like some of these Hydroxy compounds )

u5Jxx7I.png

6gcFiPh.png
 
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indigoaura said:
@anon65535 Glubra has not been able to post in awhile, unfortunately. He has missed out on a lot of the more recent developments, and we could really use his insight. We have discovered quite a bit of published research that may relate to the topic. We have established that different synthesis routes produce different byproducts, and some of those byproducts may block receptors and uptake of MDMA. We have just recently read an article that found a previously undocumented impurity, and that article theorized that impurities in PMK may be producing unwanted byproducts. You may find that article of interest here: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.forsciint.2020.110332

At this point, I am pretty convinced that much MDMA on the market has synthesis byproducts present, and that some of those byproducts are muting the experience of the roll, either in the brain or somehow in the liver. I don't think all meh is exactly the same, or that all magic is exactly the same.
Click to expand...
Again for the tenth time I'll say it we need to analyse meh to figure out the synthesis route used.is it one or many different methods? until this is done no cause can be determined.
 
user666 said:
After PMK Glycidate is converted to PMK, something must happen to the Glycidate part. If it is not removed completely by the subsequent workup, it is quite possible that this remainder is converted to toxic stuff like Acrylamide.
However, the conversion of PMK Glycidate to PMK does not have to be 100% efficient, which would leave PMK Glycidate in the mixture, and that can get amidated and its epoxy ring can be opened by subsequent reaction with Methylamine, leaving M-ALPHA-HMCA as a contaminant.

So IMO the best working theory now is that Meh MDMA = MDMA + toxic stuff like Acrylamide (which causes LTC) + muting agents such as the M-ALPHA-HMCA or other Hydroxy containg compunds and dimer-like molecules (which block the noradrenergic and serotonergic receptors).

These contaminant must be potent in very small amounts to avoid detection by GCMS ...or undergo pyrolytic disproprtionation and masquarade as MDMA (e.g. like these dimer-like byproducs)
Click to expand...
It seems like failure to purify the ketone made from pmkglycidate decomposition is a culprit or at least a major problem with modern mdma.
 
indigoaura said:
@anon65535 Glubra has not been able to post in awhile, unfortunately. He has missed out on a lot of the more recent developments, and we could really use his insight. We have discovered quite a bit of published research that may relate to the topic. We have established that different synthesis routes produce different byproducts, and some of those byproducts may block receptors and uptake of MDMA. We have just recently read an article that found a previously undocumented impurity, and that article theorized that impurities in PMK may be producing unwanted byproducts. You may find that article of interest here: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.forsciint.2020.110332

At this point, I am pretty convinced that much MDMA on the market has synthesis byproducts present, and that some of those byproducts are muting the experience of the roll, either in the brain or somehow in the liver. I don't think all meh is exactly the same, or that all magic is exactly the same.
Click to expand...
Did those samples you sent off come back with any route specific info on how they were made? Or any info on trace impurities?
 
Did those samples you sent off come back with any route specific info on how they were made? Or any info on trace impurities?
Click to expand...

I am supposed to eventually get access to additional data from the analysis. However, that has not occurred yet. As soon as I have additional data for you to review, I will post it.

I was told that this sample https://www.drugsdata.org/view.php?id=8547 was made starting with safrole. @vash445 also had a sample that had started as safrole and was meh.

If impurities in PMK can cause unwanted byproducts, wouldn't the same be true of impurities in safrole? Safrole can be derived from so many sources. If a small chemist is obtaining safrole illicitly from China or Brazil or wherever, isn't it possible they are getting dirty safrole?
 
indigoaura said:
I am supposed to eventually get access to additional data from the analysis. However, that has not occurred yet. As soon as I have additional data for you to review, I will post it.

I was told that this sample https://www.drugsdata.org/view.php?id=8547 was made starting with safrole. @vash445 also had a sample that had started as safrole and was meh.

If impurities in PMK can cause unwanted byproducts, wouldn't the same be true of impurities in safrole? Safrole can be derived from so many sources. If a small chemist is obtaining safrole illicitly from China or Brazil or wherever, isn't it possible they are getting dirty safrole?
Click to expand...

Yup I think my other thread i went over a bit how different safrole sources can alter the MDMA if not distilled prior to use. I know small amount of PMMA can result but other things could occur too.

That result is interesting that they found low amounts of MDA and MBDB, I can understand the MDA but can someone explain how the MBDB showed up?

-GC
 
user666 said:
After PMK Glycidate is converted to PMK, something must happen to the Glycidate part. If it is not removed completely by the subsequent workup, it is quite possible that this remainder is converted to toxic stuff like Acrylamide.
Also, the conversion of PMK Glycidate to PMK does not have to be 100% efficient, which would leave PMK Glycidate in the mixture. If the unreacted precursor is not removed completely by the subsequent workup, it can get amidated and its epoxy ring can be opened by subsequent reaction with Methylamine, leaving M-ALPHA-HMCA as a contaminant.

So IMO the best working theory now is that "Meh MDMA" = MDMA + toxic stuff like Acrylamide (which causes LTC) + muting agents such as the M-ALPHA-HMCA or other Hydroxy containing compunds and dimer-like molecules (which block the human monoamine trasporters).

These contaminants must be potent in very small amounts to avoid detection by GC/MS ...or undergo pyrolytic disproprtionation and masquarade as MDMA (e.g. like some of these Hydroxy compounds )

u5Jxx7I.png

6gcFiPh.png
Click to expand...

While searching the Hive lately, all the evidence of lackluster product seems to point towards dimers. Are dimers more likely to occur via PT hydrogenation though,

-GC
 
indigoaura said:
If impurities in PMK can cause unwanted byproducts, wouldn't the same be true of impurities in safrole?
Click to expand...
Yes, but the PMK impurities derived from dirty Safrole will be different from PMK impurities derived from incompletely converted PMK Glycidate or failure to remove the Glycidate moiety after the conversion.
Obviously, different set of impurities will have different effects. It is quite possible, that the set of impurites from one precursor is worse than from the other.

In case of PMK derived from pure PMK Glycidate, we can have two sources of MDMA impurities:
a) from the unconverted precursor itself
b) from the Glycidate moiety remaining after its succesful conversion to PMK.
 
G_Chem said:
While searching the Hive lately, all the evidence of lackluster product seems to point towards dimers. Are dimers more likely to occur via PT hydrogenation though ?
Click to expand...
To answer that, I would need to fully understand how Pt hydrogenation alters precursors and contaminants present in the reaction. I don't.
However, I can shine some light on the dimers, as I expect them to fluoresce under UV or strongly absorb UV or blue light (like dibenzylacetone does). MDMA does not do that.
 
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indigoaura said:
I am supposed to eventually get access to additional data from the analysis. However, that has not occurred yet. As soon as I have additional data for you to review, I will post it.

I was told that this sample https://www.drugsdata.org/view.php?id=8547 was made starting with safrole. @vash445 also had a sample that had started as safrole and was meh.

If impurities in PMK can cause unwanted byproducts, wouldn't the same be true of impurities in safrole? Safrole can be derived from so many sources. If a small chemist is obtaining safrole illicitly from China or Brazil or wherever, isn't it possible they are getting dirty safrole?
Click to expand...
Possible but meh wasn't a problem until recently and safrole has always been purified before making it into the ketone so unless someone has just started leaving out crucial purification steps it shouldn't be an issue.
 
G_Chem said:
I can understand the MDA but can someone explain how the MBDB showed up?
Click to expand...
I only have a far-out explanation.

Namely, their automatic spectra correlation is so imprecise, that they confused M-ALPHA for MBDB.

MG94Ku4.png


A manual review of the spectrum might have yielded a more precise result.

Draculic acid69's explanation below is more plausible.
 
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G_Chem said:
Yup I think my other thread i went over a bit how different safrole sources can alter the MDMA if not distilled prior to use. I know small amount of PMMA can result but other things could occur too.

That result is interesting that they found low amounts of MDA and MBDB, I can understand the MDA but can someone explain how the MBDB showed up?

-GC
Click to expand...
A bunch of mehmdma was mixed with a small amount of mbdb from a different batch
 
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