F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
I've just received a fresh batch which I'll be sampling at the weekend. I've not had any for a couple of months, so if I'm fast asleep after 2-3 hours I'm fuckin giving up..!
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MDMA &
Empathogenic
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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?
- Thread starter Le Junk
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indigoaura
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It is not really a matter of agree or not agree, but more a matter of have you experienced it or have you not experienced it. Since you have never experienced it, you may be in a region that is fortunate enough to have consistent, quality product. If you don't mind me asking, where are you located?
Edited to add: looks like you are in Germany. I do not recall a lot of people posting to the thread about this phenomenon from Germany.
Tranced
Bluelight Crew
Although I appreciate the work you are (all) putting into the thread, you're missing out on the inherent bias of people posting in the thread and being whipped into a frenzy with purely anecdotal reports and their own subjective exerience. Seriously, some of the things I've witnessed in here as evidence; stuff like peoples eyes not dilating, nobody giving massages in clubs any more, nobody hugging on MDMA any more just does not tally with actually going to a club.
Also, your graph just does not add up. For example the 'jaw movement' row. I've both experienced and witnessed tension and grinding, as well as shivering and shaking pretty much every time I've taken MDMA. I'm somewhat of a pro gurner when it comes to MDMA, and by that I mean my jaw frequently gets its quiver on depending on dose and how much I control it. There is nothing abnormal about your jaw 'shivering and shaking' when you take MDMA and I tend to find it differs from person to person and dose. In my experience.
Exactly the same experience and thoughts here. If I take 135mg weighed MDMA, I know exactly what it's going to do... because I've been taking it that was since 2005.
I started a thread with a poll asking which country people were from who experienced all this (or it might have been the MDMA 'LTC' actually) just a year or two back, but can't find it.
Not many German people have posted in the thread, but very few bluelighters are german. From what I can see and observe online, the MDMA available in the UK, Germany and Holland, to name but a few European countries I can observe, tend to get roughly the same MDMA, likely coming from the same labs.
In my opinion based on my research Germany does very well and likely has a decent amount of domestic product.
I should note where I grew up and where I obtain my “magic” product is an area rich in German heritage. A lot of great minds come from there.
Germans are smart and know their chemistry. If you look Germans also take the lowest doses of any nation (110mg on average if I remember right) another sign they take quality product.
-GC
indigoaura
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@Tranced
"you're missing out on the inherent bias" I do not doubt that the people drawn to this thread are mostly people who have experienced low-quality MDMA, and thus, the data is skewed. It does not change the reality that this is happening to a decent number of people in a wide variety of areas. Anecdotal reports are often the first stage of data gathering before larger studies are launched, and are relevant in many fields of study. To completely dismiss anecdotal reports is illogical.
"Seriously, some of the things I've witnessed in here as evidence; stuff like peoples eyes not dilating, nobody giving massages in clubs any more, nobody hugging on MDMA any more just does not tally with actually going to a club."
This is going to be a regional thing. You went to a club and you saw evidence of quality MDMA in circulation. I went to a rave in my area (southern USA), and a very small number of people displayed observable signs of MDMA use. In contrast, a lot of people were standing very still, not dancing, and zoned out. It did not look anything like a club or a rave where quality MDMA is circulating freely (and I have been to enough events to know the difference). It is not a competition where only one of us has observed something true. Both of our observations can be true. All that it means is that some regions have better product in circulation.
"Also, your graph just does not add up. For example the 'jaw movement' row. I've both experienced and witnessed tension and grinding, as well as shivering and shaking pretty much every time I've taken MDMA. I'm somewhat of a pro gurner when it comes to MDMA, and by that I mean my jaw frequently gets its quiver on depending on dose and how much I control it. There is nothing abnormal about your jaw 'shivering and shaking' when you take MDMA and I tend to find it differs from person to person and dose. In my experience."
Do you think it would just be better to say yes to both then? The low quality product does still produce jaw movement. However, multiple people have reported a different quality to the movement, and I was trying to capture that. It also looks different. I find that when I look at someone on "meh" product, I can't really tell that they are doing anything with their jaw. However, on quality product, it often looks like the jaw is to the side and skewed. I have photos and videos which I cannot post due to privacy concerns, but my point is that it is observable to someone who is sober and watching the the user. It is also subjectively observable by the user, because it feels different.
"Exactly the same experience and thoughts here. If I take 135mg weighed MDMA, I know exactly what it's going to do... because I've been taking it that was since 2005."
How would you feel if that was not the case, and 135 mg of product produced vastly different effects (even under controlled environments, fasting, etc)?
I get the impression from a lot of people who read and post in this thread that they are personally offended by the implication that some MDMA is flawed. I could be wrong, but it feels like when people have not experienced it, they just believe it does not exist. Since it is outside of their realm of experience, the implication that it is happening to other people is somehow an insult to the reader's personal experience of quality MDMA.
Our truths can both exist at once. It is possible, and also probable, that many people have never encountered this issue. Perhaps due to region, supplier, or social circle, you (and many others) have no idea what we are talking about here. That is lucky for you! But please do not assume that the intelligent people contributing their experiences here are fictionalizing this.
"you're missing out on the inherent bias" I do not doubt that the people drawn to this thread are mostly people who have experienced low-quality MDMA, and thus, the data is skewed. It does not change the reality that this is happening to a decent number of people in a wide variety of areas. Anecdotal reports are often the first stage of data gathering before larger studies are launched, and are relevant in many fields of study. To completely dismiss anecdotal reports is illogical.
"Seriously, some of the things I've witnessed in here as evidence; stuff like peoples eyes not dilating, nobody giving massages in clubs any more, nobody hugging on MDMA any more just does not tally with actually going to a club."
This is going to be a regional thing. You went to a club and you saw evidence of quality MDMA in circulation. I went to a rave in my area (southern USA), and a very small number of people displayed observable signs of MDMA use. In contrast, a lot of people were standing very still, not dancing, and zoned out. It did not look anything like a club or a rave where quality MDMA is circulating freely (and I have been to enough events to know the difference). It is not a competition where only one of us has observed something true. Both of our observations can be true. All that it means is that some regions have better product in circulation.
"Also, your graph just does not add up. For example the 'jaw movement' row. I've both experienced and witnessed tension and grinding, as well as shivering and shaking pretty much every time I've taken MDMA. I'm somewhat of a pro gurner when it comes to MDMA, and by that I mean my jaw frequently gets its quiver on depending on dose and how much I control it. There is nothing abnormal about your jaw 'shivering and shaking' when you take MDMA and I tend to find it differs from person to person and dose. In my experience."
Do you think it would just be better to say yes to both then? The low quality product does still produce jaw movement. However, multiple people have reported a different quality to the movement, and I was trying to capture that. It also looks different. I find that when I look at someone on "meh" product, I can't really tell that they are doing anything with their jaw. However, on quality product, it often looks like the jaw is to the side and skewed. I have photos and videos which I cannot post due to privacy concerns, but my point is that it is observable to someone who is sober and watching the the user. It is also subjectively observable by the user, because it feels different.
"Exactly the same experience and thoughts here. If I take 135mg weighed MDMA, I know exactly what it's going to do... because I've been taking it that was since 2005."
How would you feel if that was not the case, and 135 mg of product produced vastly different effects (even under controlled environments, fasting, etc)?
I get the impression from a lot of people who read and post in this thread that they are personally offended by the implication that some MDMA is flawed. I could be wrong, but it feels like when people have not experienced it, they just believe it does not exist. Since it is outside of their realm of experience, the implication that it is happening to other people is somehow an insult to the reader's personal experience of quality MDMA.
Our truths can both exist at once. It is possible, and also probable, that many people have never encountered this issue. Perhaps due to region, supplier, or social circle, you (and many others) have no idea what we are talking about here. That is lucky for you! But please do not assume that the intelligent people contributing their experiences here are fictionalizing this.
I have a friends roling with me from early 2000.
Some of them will rate their batches as potent or not potent.
They are not bothering with analize, they would accept it as it is, without thinking too much of it.
Those kind of people would say fuck it, lets get party.
Regarding the Germany.
I'v been at big events around the Germany and Holland, during the last 5 years i was not able to find anything that is not meh.
Mostly popular Dutch presses and mdma, all reagent tested.
Some of them were going straight to black some purple to black.
Some of them will rate their batches as potent or not potent.
They are not bothering with analize, they would accept it as it is, without thinking too much of it.
Those kind of people would say fuck it, lets get party.
Regarding the Germany.
I'v been at big events around the Germany and Holland, during the last 5 years i was not able to find anything that is not meh.
Mostly popular Dutch presses and mdma, all reagent tested.
Some of them were going straight to black some purple to black.
Put me down as one of your statistics, had similar experience since 2010 up to 2020, had some product GC/MS, or reagent tested present as "Meh" when consumed..
Have experience of better days late 90's-2005..
Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
German MDMA comes from dutch labs those are acutally closer to the border around Belgium. Half a KG of mdma is super super cheap in europe at wholesale alot cheaper than weed aswell. Most people buy pure uncut rocks or crystals that look fucking amazing. I have seen very dodgy looking mdma over the years that has obvious cuts in it like 4-FA methlyone and usually just speed aswell. Germany is usually used to ship products from rather than holland sinces it is a mega hotspot but germany is also a hotspot but less than holland. So dutch producers move alot of their product into Germany then to other places in europe
AutoTripper
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Interesting spotlight you draw on this. One really startling fact to myself on Iearning- Plum Island off New York, advanced animal disease research center, where it was openly admitted they were bioengineering zoonotic organisms capable of infecting both animals and humans...... then suddenly an outbteak of Lyme in Offshore local Conneticutt.
Sorry folks. Rambling. But no question in my mind, the current, modern Lyme causing "Borrelia" bacteria, which has been around since ever incidentally....
That it is a biological lab creation/modification.
Aaaaanyeay, lol sorry. I'm high on weed and strong Kava. My simple point-
Plum Island was set up by an ex Nazi Scientist, recruited after the war. Like so many we know.
His speciality- was Tick-borne illnesses!
That really amazed me to learn that.
Hope y'all are well people. Just hanging in there myself but doing okay take care all.
Nice mellow old skool jungle beats atm, well chilled out.
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AutoTripper
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My freshest memories of MDMA, particular between 2003 and 2005, when I returned to my UK home town after 4 years at Seansea University....
We got really amazing pills then, pure crystal and white powder MDMA, I took loads at a time. But there was never a harsh comedown. Just a beautiful hallucinogenic afterglow.
But I also took lots of pills in the past I would consider shit and it was miserable only having access to such dire product. So some batches would make you feel shit afterwards- regretful almost at points.
But not those pure MDMA presses and powder. You just drifted back down to earth, with such a lasting feeling of acceptance of yourself and everything around you which probably counter weighed the inevitable dips and lows from brain chemistry at cetera.
But that was me, and I ain't normal haha!
Edit- the only REAL bummer I can recall- having to go to work as a Dustman at 6 am on Monday morning, often after 2 or 3 nights of no sleep and 20-30 130mg plus old skool pills, trips, ketamine.
Boy, the times I went to work in the early dark hours, just trying not to get run over....tripping out of my face (I used to trip plenty on MDMA and weed alone, like 5 strong pills and above).
If I could have slept nice, chilled all week smoking skunk, seeing my close friends I loved to hang with.....I don't think I would have been too sad overall.
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Negi
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Did you ask any of those zoned out individuals if they were on MDMA? Rather than indicating the presence of low-quality MDMA, your observation might have been the result of the general absence of any type of MDMA. At the last event I went to GHB and ketamine seemed to be the most popular substances, which will certainly give a different look to the crowd depending on the doses people are taking.
AutoTripper
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Certainly, ketamine drastically alters demeanour haha. But once up on true MDMA, the ket in moderation, serves as a stimulant and the Pure MDMA energized high is still there to shine through.
In my days of experience anyway, but dosages are key of course.
fasterfb
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Yes I agree. Ket is a great addition to the MDMA experience. I don't leave home without it, lol.
I typically start using it closer to the end of my roll, and I find it really brings the glow back nicely.
AutoTripper
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It also takes the edge off of everything and anything. And there is ideation which I think may have some evidence behind it that actually using ketamine in conjunction with MDMA similarly to cannabis and potentially other psychedelics as well can can help to reduce the neurotoxic impact.
During those few years 2003 to 2005 just after I returned from university and was partying at outdoor free parties and festivals regularly, with access to the same quality purely clean MDMA pills at home....
I was taking ketamine moderately enough but very regularly and always alongside the MDMA and acid whenever it came by.
So these may well have been Factors in me not experiencing such a negative come down effect for all that we know.
fasterfb
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Well, that would be a bonus if ketamine and/or other psychedelics also offered some neuro-protection.
I usually flip with some type of psychedelic(s) when I roll.
I go nuts with the anti-oxidants as well, as I feel subjectively that they do help.
Also, grapefruit juice/extract at the beginning and throughout.
Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
Apologises if I'm asking something that's been answered, this is a 217 page thread... is this a mostly US issue? I'm in the UK and I am too young to comment on what things were like in the 80's, but we get a supply of highly pure MDMA from the Netherlands and I've found most of it to be really good, euphoric, loved up stuff. I have noticed some seems more stimulating than others - but this could easily be set and setting, and I know for a fact that even my prescribed amphetamine feels different each day despite all being identical coming from the same pharma company, so I would expect similar from MDMA.
I've had it in all forms: power, crystal, and pills. The powder has varied in colour from being white with a slightly brownish hue to being downright brown. Colour and quality don't seem to correlate much anecdotally though.
I rarely get a horrid comedown the next day unless I take too much, but it's obvious higher doses lead to worse comedowns. If I dose sensibly I will have a nice afterglow the next day, and a mild comedown for a week max but nothing a bit of weed can't smooth out.
I expect most people who complain of horrid comedowns from the UK are experiencing that as a result of UK dosing which is often over the top like over 200mg in a night easily.
Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
The best thing ever to really avoid a mdma come down if you are using alot more than the usual rules around it is to take 2CB somewhere a few hours in and smoke alot of weed the whole mdma trip. 2cb is extremly neuroprotective and nick sands recommended only ever doing MDMA with 2cb and i believe this was a combo sasha shulgin very much enjoyed aswell.
Wilson Wilson
Bluelighter
Interesting about 2cb, only tried it a handful of times, don't think I ever mixed it with MDMA. Weed I've had with MDMA many times of course, always a good mix, and a mate told me it's neuroprotective as well but I have no idea how true that actually is.
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