What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[vecktor]

What if the TLC plate is rated at 254nm by its manufacturer ?


I think that is because such stains will interfere with the colorimetric reagents (Froehde , Marquis, Mandelin, etc...) that will be applied to these spots later.

The reality is most UV lamps are usually either long or short wavelength, and that is dictated by the glass the tube is made of but it doesn't abruptly cut off usually and the tubes are almost always just mercury which has emission lines a long way into UVC. UVB lamps just produce less UVC. 254nm is a mercury line and it is always produced in mercury discharge.

likewise 254nm fluor is not just 254nm it can be excited by longer wavelengths and short too.

spray stains are somewhat tricky because finely divided molybdate or acidified DMAB-HCl or CAN mist is rather hazardous, Pot permang as a mist is bad news too. Molybdic acid is good because it is low toxicity and general.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

But what is "normal" MDMA to those people?

I've never heard of this MBDB, but I'd love to see how it compares to 'MehDMA'.

 

[G_Chem]

MBDB, also known as Eden, was most popularly used in the 90’s alongside MDEA, MDA and of course MDMA. It was probably the rarest of the 4 but was around during that time.

Nichols talked about how MBDB might be the best for therapy since it induces the least amount of “high” which is one reason I question that statement. It’s supposed to be an empathogen with much less euphoria.

FUBAR if you ate plenty of ecstasy in the 90’s, you probably are more likely than any of us to have ever tried it.

-GC

 

[G_Chem]

Here’s a few Erowid reports to get an idea...

MBDB - Erowid Exp - 'Insufflated Eden'

An Experience with MBDB. 'Insufflated Eden' by bluestemz

erowid.org

MBDB - Erowid Exp - 'Not a Substitute for MDMA'

An Experience with MBDB. 'Not a Substitute for MDMA' by Jackburbee

erowid.org

MBDB - Erowid Exp - 'A Pleasant MBDB Adventure'

An Experience with MBDB. 'A Pleasant MBDB Adventure' by Mbdb

erowid.org

-GC

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

FUBAR if you ate plenty of ecstasy in the 90’s, you probably are more likely than any of us to have ever tried it.

-GC

Well if thats the case, then there's no way it can explain the 'meh', cos it was all good shit back then...

 

[draculic acid69]

But what is "normal" MDMA to those people?

100mg mdma tablets is what was the "normal" thing was.week after week it was this and then every couple of months the manotiny of the normal was interrupted by the awesome trippy batches of mbdb then it was back to the normal.

 

[sekio]

I think that is because such stains will interfere with the colorimetric reagents (Froehde , Marquis, Mandelin, etc...) that will be applied to these spots later.

The colorimetric reagents ARE the stains, silly. And TLC plates are cheap, cheap, cheap. Run multiple plates, or multiple lanes, and either cut the plate or mask portions of it off, and you can end up with a plate with the same seperation visualized several ways. Some stains, notably iodine vapor, are temporary.

If you get good enough at resolving compounds on TLC you can actually use it as a sample preparation technique too. Run a big plate with either multiple 'spots' or a 'band' of compound laid across the baseline, then without staining it (maybe use a second stained plate for reference), cut the band/spots with your desired compound in it out of the plate (or scrape the silica off the backing with a spatula or flathead screwdriver). A quick solvent extraction and you are left with a few milligrams of quite pure compound, suitable for GCMS or NMR. I've used this quite succesfully to help identify impurities that are too dilute to get a good analysis of.

What if the TLC plate is rated at 254nm by its manufacturer ?

It may depend on the manufacturer, but the ones I used, the chromophore had a broad enough absorbtion band that it would still glow under longer wave UV. I used a dual-lamp UVA/UVB light and found the UVB worked just fine. But not UV-A, as I recall.

Most of the time I didn't bother with the UV at all. I was working with mostly terpenoids and tended to prefer phosphomolybdate - it develops lovely blue spots.
Ninhidrin would be ideal for drug analysis as it will spot bright pink in the presence of amines. And iodine vapor is a classic that never fails.

spray stains are somewhat tricky because finely divided molybdate or acidified DMAB-HCl or CAN mist is rather hazardous, Pot permang as a mist is bad news too. Molybdic acid is good because it is low toxicity and general.

I usually did the spraying in a fume hood, wearing safety glasses, (probably better to use goggles) holding my breath, and aimed away from anyone or anything that could get unwittingly colorized. Keep em fairly dilute and put them in a cheap polypropylene mister bottle. I don't think I would want to get phosphomolybdic acid in my eyes, toxic or not.

I wonder if you could use a dip-bath to deliver the stain without messing up the TLC. Or maybe a very soft bristled brush.

 

[G_Chem]

Haha, all in the name of science hey GC? Very interesting. I only ever saw one ecstasy pill tested myself in fact.
Exodus (the origin of of the famous Exodus Cheese" strain of weed) annual festival 1999 (illegal do, but hardcore Gypsies, police always kept a distance back then.)

They were huge 4 day parties in August. 3 mile grassy, hilly venue. Dozens of music teepees. Crazy but chill people. Lots of love and connection.

NO TROUBLE! Gypsies ran it good!

But the drugs- the ecstasy/MDMA pills.....wow, out of this world. And huge variety. You only had to walk a few feet to find a different press of very high quality mind-altering MDMA pills.

And sensational skunk, hash, aghghan black, Columbian weed etc.

So upon entering this grand outdoor complex at 5 p.m. on a hot sunny Saturday evening, after being sold acid on the road outside before even entering the party zone, a girl came up to me and asked if I wanted to swap a pill she had some really tasty looking white Mitsubishi pills which could be exceptional at the time in 1999.

We took with us some really clean Mercedes pills with us. I did not decline the offer and before I knew it she was efficiently testing my Mercedes pill in front of my eyes.

That was the only one I ever saw tested I believe, so no exact memory of the result but I just remember it going dark very quickly whether it was black or had noticeable purple in it I can't be sure now.

The big white Mitzi she gave me was top top notch.

What you report is very interesting I will be reading it again sometime when my head is not so wasted on kava, cannabis edibles and etizolam. No acid today at least, but nice and dreamily medicated.


I have grown increasingly tempted lately to actually try one of my Dutch Bowser pills. I'm thinking it should be safe enough hopefully. It would be extremely interesting to me in light of this whole topic and particular thread to see what sort of experience I would have have and to be able to report that here based on my extensive past experiences.

We will see folks. Hope you are all keeping well.

Hey man sorry I missed this post but hope your doing well too

That event sounds lush, I imagine it as this magical landscape of lovely weirdos. I can’t wait til all this is over and the festival season is here.. Although I have a feeling Covid will put a damper on things for the rest of the year...

-GC

 

[Gaffy]

So I was wondering, just how much difference is there between 3,4 MD and 4,5 MD. As you can see in the picture, the double carbon bond position differes from one to another's, maybe that's what's wrong with today's MDMA?

Input? Has already been discussed?

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

Input? Has already been discussed?

 

[Limey]

What I find strange is that I only get mild effects from mdma these days but other friends (usually younger who’ve never had saffrole synthesized mdma) will roll balls on the same batch.
I wonder if having previously had saffrole synthesized mdma somewhat changes your brain chemistry so that when you take Pmk synthesized mdma your brain somehow doesn’t recognize the molecule ? I was never a regular user of mdma and I’m not on any anti depressants either.

 

[relex_author]

Whats wrong with it? It ain't the same stuff really - aint made with Safrole oil. But its ok again!

 

[indigoaura]

@Gaffy I do not recall discussing 4-5 MDMA. Maybe one of the other long time contributors to the thread recalls better than me. I know we talked about 2-3 MDMA vs. 3-4 MDMA, and there were some studies that talked about 2-3 MDMA. I do not recall considering 4-5.

Any idea whether it would be possible to produce 4-5 MDMA instead of 3-4 MDMA through common synth routes?

 

[TripSitterNZ]

@Gaffy I do not recall discussing 4-5 MDMA. Maybe one of the other long time contributors to the thread recalls better than me. I know we talked about 2-3 MDMA vs. 3-4 MDMA, and there were some studies that talked about 2-3 MDMA. I do not recall considering 4-5.

Any idea whether it would be possible to produce 4-5 MDMA instead of 3-4 MDMA through common synth routes?

no all starting material is a 3,4 chemical its impossible for it to go to 4,5 or 2,3.

 

[Gaffy]

I learned on N&PD that 4,5 and 3,4 are basically the same as it is an aromatic ring (benzene) so it doesn't change anything as the 5 and the 3 are both 2 position away from the ethylalphamethmethylamine chain and the 4 position doesn't move. 2,3 = 5,6 also, as long as there aren't other substitutions on the aromatic ring.

 

[SunriseChampion]

I can’t wait til all this is over and the festival season is here.. Although I have a feeling Covid will put a damper on things for the rest of the year...

I hope not. I was so stoked. One of our local festivals here got extended by a day this year. I have the supplies, I was so ready. The first one I was supposed to go to is supposed to be in late July so that will be the test, I guess.

Let's hope for the best!

 

[draculic acid69]

What I find strange is that I only get mild effects from mdma these days but other friends (usually younger who’ve never had saffrole synthesized mdma) will roll balls on the same batch.
I wonder if having previously had saffrole synthesized mdma somewhat changes your brain chemistry so that when you take Pmk synthesized mdma your brain somehow doesn’t recognize the molecule ? I was never a regular user of mdma and I’m not on any anti depressants either.

Nope.

 

[draculic acid69]

@Gaffy I do not recall discussing 4-5 MDMA. Maybe one of the other long time contributors to the thread recalls better than me. I know we talked about 2-3 MDMA vs. 3-4 MDMA, and there were some studies that talked about 2-3 MDMA. I do not recall considering 4-5.

Any idea whether it would be possible to produce 4-5 MDMA instead of 3-4 MDMA through common synth routes?

3,4mdma would be the same as 4,5mdma.2,3 is the only one that would be different I think.its like saying 2cloroutane and 3clorobutane would be different

 

[draculic acid69]

I learned on N&PD that 4,5 and 3,4 are basically the same as it is an aromatic ring (benzene) so it doesn't change anything as the 5 and the 3 are both 2 position away from the ethylalphamethmethylamine chain and the 4 position doesn't move. 2,3 = 5,6 also, as long as there aren't other substitutions on the aromatic ring.

Exactly correct

 

[draculic acid69]

Ok ppl just saw 34mdbenzylamine for sale on a rather large list of chemical companies product lists.add isopropyl bromide and u get the 3,4md isopropylbenzylamine which is the md equivalent to the n-iso being used to cut meth.meth cut with this n-iso stuff makes u sleepy a few hrs later and generally dulls and blunts the buzz of meth.im wondering if 3,4md n-iso is a proponent of mehmdma if it has the same effect as the non MD equivalent it would explain why meh is a thing.same m.w. same number of carbons,has an ether,a benzene ring and a 3carbon side chain.whether or not this will or won't be detected as mdma by a gcms I don't know.ill leave that up to the more analysis skilled of us but 3,4mdisopropylbenzylamine is to be added to the list of possibilities.