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What is wrong with the MDMA available today?
- Thread starter Le Junk
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Can you divulge the weight of your girlfriend, too ?
indigoaura
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@majk13 I am leaning more and more towards the idea that receptors or transporters (or both) are being blocked by a contaminant. This possibility is supported through research, and it also explains why different batches seem to hit with varying levels of serotonin/dopamine activity. A lot of us seem to be encountering product without eye dilation or empathy, but with other "symptoms" like jaw clenching. You seem to have found product that allows the eye dilation, but not the empathy.
Hilopsilo
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Curious, would actually taking the dose as one 120mg rock potentially have a significant effect for whatever reason? Ever since I had that mehDMA experience in 2018, i make sure to grind it to a fine powder almost out of superstition as the MehDMA i'm certain we didn't crush up, and I always wondered if that would impact digestion of it (I got a gnarly stomach ache as well).
I've only taken MDMA 3 times since then (all the white scentless quartz crystal stuff), no problems any of the times, full magical experience with not a hint of doubt about it in my mind.
I rolled this weekend with it and remembered something else, between 2015-2018 every time I rolled with 100mg clean MDMA, during the come-up/pre-peak I would get these insane pins and needles in my extremities for 10-15 minutes. It wasn't necessarily painful, but it sure scared the shit out of me without fail each time it happened. I've posted threads about it on here before, couldn't find much info on similar experiences. It actually became a huge source of come-up anxiety, I just had to sorta trust that it would fine, and medical at the festival didn't seem to think it was all that alarming. But, these last 3 rolls, not a sign of that symptom, nor did I have it the time in 2017 that was maybe the hardest I ever rolled (also with fine powder quartz scentless). This could be totally unrelated, maybe just a symptom of my biology during those years?
Anywho, last night all 5 of us took 100mg, my girlfriend only took 80mg (usually takes 100mg, 80mg ended up being plenty), went to a rave and it was the most therapeutic experience I've had, well, since the last time i took it. My other friend took 100mg and ended up puking, she ate a ton of fruit right before thinking that was a good idea (I'm not sure it is?) and has got to weigh no more than 115lb... Solid night, feel better today than I've felt in months, like some wight has been lifted from my shoulders and I have clarity. A little slow mentally, low on sleep, but just been smoking weed, eating good food and hanging out with my cats.
(Off-topic but DMT vape pen is amazing in the after hours of the roll, the MDMA after effects filter out any negative bodyload/mindset you could have from DMT since you're already so at peace. Definitely recommend, lots of small hits... DO NOT DO THIS WITH CHANGA, IT WILL GIVE YOU SEROTONIN SYNDROME OR SOMETHING).
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Surface area effects dissolution and bioavailability..
Always crush it into a fine powder for max results.
after reduction of particle size, increased saturation solubility, an enlarged surface area, and a thinner diffusion layer could dramatically increase the dissolution velocity, thereby simultaneously improving bioavailability.
Effect of particle size on solubility, dissolution rate, and oral bioavailability: evaluation using coenzyme Q10 as naked nanocrystals
In this paper work, four naked nanocrystals (size range 80–700 nm) were prepared without any surfactant or polymer using the solvent/nonsolvent method. The effects of particle size on their solubility, dissolution, and oral bioavailability were ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Hilopsilo
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Well, could that be a potential theory? It fits my experience, or I can't say it doesn't for sure, plenty of times I've taken my 100mg as crystal chunks, those time certainly could have been the meh ones. But, I can say for sure the 3 magic rolls since I noticed this (and the one before) were crushed to a fine, fine powder and taken in a gel cap.
As well, its almost like with the magic stuff the come-up is actually less intense, but results in a stronger roll. It doesn't get all stressful and jarring then fizzle out on the way up. Its fully satisfying, nothing is wanting.
As well, its almost like with the magic stuff the come-up is actually less intense, but results in a stronger roll. It doesn't get all stressful and jarring then fizzle out on the way up. Its fully satisfying, nothing is wanting.
Me thinks, that complete dissolution is more effective than crushing in equalizing all bioavailability issues due to crystalline polymorphisms.
It is a lot less messy, too....
It also has a small purification effect, because whatever does not dissolve in pure water is not an MDMA salt, in other words - insoluble stuff is a cut or impurity.
Gastrointestinal secretions might be able to dissolve what water was not able to - this is not good.
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psy997
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No. I've had plenty of Magic experiences eating rock straight, and Meh experiences with fine powder or dissolved product. If this was an explanation then plugging MDMA - assuming you're plugging a solution and not a rock lol - would turn Meh into Magic.
Again, at this point I think the only explanation is active impurities with negative effects on serotonin receptors. If the difference between Magic and Meh was that Magic had positive effect impurities, that wouldn't explain MehDMA ruining already good drug experiences, at least, it doesn't make near as much sense to me.
indigoaura
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My meh experiences have also been mostly with powder inside capsules.
Hilopsilo
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Right, probably not the culprit, but might be worth it for anyone here to always crush it to a fine powder for peace of mind. As vash posted, its clearly documented that it has some relation to bioavailability, might as well eliminate it. Not anything more than a layman'd observation, but the MehDMA always feels on my body like its not absorbing right, hard to explain. Like a stalled car engine, dud firework, blew a fuse, etc...
Psy has anyone here even tried plugging MehDMA to see if it makes a difference? I've never tried plugging anything, I'm such a lightweight when it comes to drugs I'm always scared I'd get way too fucked and shit myself at the rave
On another note, a friend of mine took MDMA for the first time in a while a couple weeks ago, the magic stuff we all have. She swore off MDMA a while ago as it makes her feel awful the next day/week, tons of stomach issues while on it, never feels worth it for her. She took 100mg of this stuff and had the same problem, she's back to swearing it off forever. She never had a period of abuse with it, always took responsible doses, didn't mix with other drugs, and didn't redose (much) to my knowledge. I'm always incredulous of this, as for every single other person 100mg of it has them on the moon and no issues. Was talking to her about it this weekend, just reminded me that these things affect everyone differently and that will always play a role as a variable in our research, good to mindful of it.
PS: this was the first time I took MDMA without some varying dose of LSD in a very long time, years. While it was still magical, the comeup was a whole lot less paranoid/stressful/intense and the absolute energy explosion that is a candyflip peak was absent, but it wasn't as if it was disappointing or anything was missing for that reason, it was just different. Still felt fully satisfied by it. Basically, it put into perspective just how much LSD and MDMA synergize to create this truly electric experience.
Psy has anyone here even tried plugging MehDMA to see if it makes a difference? I've never tried plugging anything, I'm such a lightweight when it comes to drugs I'm always scared I'd get way too fucked and shit myself at the rave
On another note, a friend of mine took MDMA for the first time in a while a couple weeks ago, the magic stuff we all have. She swore off MDMA a while ago as it makes her feel awful the next day/week, tons of stomach issues while on it, never feels worth it for her. She took 100mg of this stuff and had the same problem, she's back to swearing it off forever. She never had a period of abuse with it, always took responsible doses, didn't mix with other drugs, and didn't redose (much) to my knowledge. I'm always incredulous of this, as for every single other person 100mg of it has them on the moon and no issues. Was talking to her about it this weekend, just reminded me that these things affect everyone differently and that will always play a role as a variable in our research, good to mindful of it.
PS: this was the first time I took MDMA without some varying dose of LSD in a very long time, years. While it was still magical, the comeup was a whole lot less paranoid/stressful/intense and the absolute energy explosion that is a candyflip peak was absent, but it wasn't as if it was disappointing or anything was missing for that reason, it was just different. Still felt fully satisfied by it. Basically, it put into perspective just how much LSD and MDMA synergize to create this truly electric experience.
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babooon87
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Yes, as I said a few pages back I tried plugging and injecting MehDMA and it did not change the nature of the effects and only made it stronger MehDMA unfortunately.Right, probably not the culprit, but might be worth it for anyone here to always crush it to a fine powder for peace of mind. As vash posted, its clearly documented that it has some relation to bioavailability, might as well eliminate it. Not anything more than a layman'd observation, but the MehDMA always feels on my body like its not absorbing right, hard to explain. Like a stalled car engine, dud firework, blew a fuse, etc...
Psy has anyone here even tried plugging MehDMA to see if it makes a difference? I've never tried plugging anything, I'm such a lightweight when it comes to drugs I'm always scared I'd get way too fucked and shit myself at the rave
On another note, a friend of mine took MDMA for the first time in a while a couple weeks ago, the magic stuff we all have. She swore off MDMA a while ago as it makes her feel awful the next day/week, tons of stomach issues while on it, never feels worth it for her. She took 100mg of this stuff and had the same problem, she's back to swearing it off forever. She never had a period of abuse with it, always took responsible doses, didn't mix with other drugs, and didn't redose (much) to my knowledge. I'm always incredulous of this, as for every single other person 100mg of it has them on the moon and no issues. Was talking to her about it this weekend, just reminded me that these things affect everyone differently and that will always play a role as a variable in our research, good to mindful of it.
PS: this was the first time I took MDMA without some varying dose of LSD in a very long time, years. While it was still magical, the comeup was a whole lot less paranoid/stressful/intense and the absolute energy explosion that is a candyflip peak was absent, but it wasn't as if it was disappointing or anything was missing for that reason, it was just different. Still felt fully satisfied by it.
Hilopsilo
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Have you had MDMA you felt was magic since you started coming across MehDMA?
I only ask since now that this magic stuff is plentiful among my social circle, I do have friends that this stuff still doesn't work for. MDMA stopped working for them a while ago and no matter how much they take of this stuff its still just "shrug" for them. They end up taking multiple doses and snorting bumps of it all night like its nothing, they're having a good time, but speaking to them they say its not much of a special experience ever anymore regardless of which MDMA they take and are always chasing it. Not saying this is your case, but this feels like proof to me that just because its good shit doesn't mean one can't have ruined MDMA for themselves at some point in the past... Again, same stuff that 100mg gives me flashbacks to 10 years ago taking my first pressed pill at the peak.
I was around probably ~20 people who took varying doses of this MDMA this weekend, I can say for 100% certain it works as intended. But when the part of the crew that overdid it on the MDMA at some point, the ones who always need a way bigger dose than everyone else and don't roll often cause they say it doesn't work for them anymore, still aren't satisfied or impressed, I'm forced to believe the MDMA itself isn't the only factor in anyone's poor reactions to it.
Afterglow is still going strong today, slept like 13 hours last night. Interestingly enough, an embarrassing health condition that come up this last month that a possible cause was stress, started going away yesterday. Like big time going away, almost gone entirely. I was scheduled for a short medical procedure for it this week, to nip it in the bud, but they told me it wouldn't be necessary if I see signs of improvement and they can confirm upon examination. Just if it gets worse, I'd need surgery. Will update on wednesday after the exam. Could be completely unrelated, but thought worth mentioning.
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indigoaura
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I had a friend like this too. It did not matter what the product was. Everyone else at the party would be having a great time, and she would be WAY TOO FUCKED UP. She would shake and just be gone...in an uncomfortable way. There was clearly some underlying genetic/personal issue at play. She responded really strongly to LSD as well.
And, I also recall people who had abused MDMA (multiple times per week for months), and just lost the ability to roll.
There are clearly a lot of factors.
But, I still think that when a lot of people are reporting the same effects from one particular batch of MDMA, then the issue is likely the product. Especially when those people have a wide variety of past usage histories including limited/no use.
Hilopsilo
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Ya for her its not a potency issue, 100mg works just fine in that sense, but the weird side and after effects are just totally out of the norm. Could also be an underlying condition that I (or her too) just don't know about, I don't know her particularly well. (it should be noted that they have always struggled with their weight, I can't help but wonder if it has any impact since MDMA dose is somewhat weight dependent, right?)
A lot of the people I know who stopped being able to roll properly due to frequency of use/dose amount started just doing bumps of it all night rather than doses, they only do MDMA this way now and have for years. Not sure how much they go through in a night, I reckon 200-300mg. Others need 300mg+ orally and are still a bit disappointed/chasing it usually. Also dose amount seems to be a point of no return in all of these cases, a friend of mine who can't roll too well anymore, their first time took 200mg and subsequently 100mg has NEVER worked regardless of product.
It all makes me wonder if for some people who think they have this issue, issue of MehDMA, and have tried MANY different batches for few years and still can't roll, maybe the MDMA has started to simply stop working regardless of the quality of product they have is. Its equally if not more plausible in that scenario.
Regardless, I'm really just thinking out loud here, don't mean to make any assumptions/conclusions about anyone experiences.
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psy997
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I've plugged more than one batch of MehDMA, it doesn't help.
And, I've had MagicDMA experiences interspersed through the time since first having Meh-ish stuff in early 2015. It's been a little Magic since late '16 early '17 - mostly different batches from different parts of the US - and lots of Meh. It does seem the qualities of Meh-ness have been different dependent on batch. The first time I had MDMA that acted Meh-ish the high was pretty good, not the best roll ever, but good (tactile sensation was greatly enhanced, the love was 75-90% there, and a good time was had) and then everyone abruptly came down 3 hours after coming up. I told my buddy something was up, but he didn't believe me because it tested perfectly with a regeant. Now, everything Meh is just super meh. And then once in a fucking while, way too long, it's good. And it's gone.
And to be clear, I found this thread 18-28 months into having these experiences and experienced great relief reading others had experienced similar things. I did not go out looking, and in fact didn't really think anything of it, because there was no way in my mind that MDMA could be Meh.
And, I've had MagicDMA experiences interspersed through the time since first having Meh-ish stuff in early 2015. It's been a little Magic since late '16 early '17 - mostly different batches from different parts of the US - and lots of Meh. It does seem the qualities of Meh-ness have been different dependent on batch. The first time I had MDMA that acted Meh-ish the high was pretty good, not the best roll ever, but good (tactile sensation was greatly enhanced, the love was 75-90% there, and a good time was had) and then everyone abruptly came down 3 hours after coming up. I told my buddy something was up, but he didn't believe me because it tested perfectly with a regeant. Now, everything Meh is just super meh. And then once in a fucking while, way too long, it's good. And it's gone.
And to be clear, I found this thread 18-28 months into having these experiences and experienced great relief reading others had experienced similar things. I did not go out looking, and in fact didn't really think anything of it, because there was no way in my mind that MDMA could be Meh.
indigoaura
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Believe me, I have asked myself this & I am open to this being my reality. That is why I also pursue approaches like NAC or BPC157 in the event that the issue is ME.
However, here are the reasons I question this logic (for me personally).
1. 2000-2005 when I had a consistent supplier, I had no issues. Despite the fact that the bulk of my use was during this time frame, I did not experience any major loss of quality to the experience.
2. Immediately when the supplier changed, the experience changed. Rolling went from being one thing, to being something completely different.
3. I had one supplier of MehDMA from 2005 until the point that I started participating in this thread. I am not plugged in to any "scene," and had very limited options. One of the samples provided to Vash was of this product.
4. Everything I have tried recently has also been tested by other people, and we all share the same analysis of the product. For example, we agree that that the most recent product I tried is about halfway between meh and magic.
So, while I absolutely recognize it could be tolerance/damage with me, I also do not think I have had the best supply. I would be more convinced my issue was ME if I could try some product that was magic to another experienced user. But, until I see someone else experiencing magic while I experience meh, I remain skeptical. So far, everything I have found to be "meh" has been "meh" to others as well.
OpiateKiller
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Idk if you look at this as a good or a bad thing but I’ve noticed with IV in about 15-20 seconds I can differentiate mehMDMA and magic...
It’s either there or it’s not. And when you shoot bioavailability is no issue...
that shit is hitting you 100% right away
It’s either there or it’s not. And when you shoot bioavailability is no issue...
that shit is hitting you 100% right away
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