What is wrong with the MDMA available today?

[G_Chem]

^^^I definitely think MehDMA has been around since pretty much the beginning of illicit MDMA manufacture. It’s probably the start to some of heroin myths and Mongy mdma that existed even in the 90’s.

FUBAR obviously it can be hard to tell from a pic but I did get some shit looking very similar a month back that did me and my friends very well. It was that shit that a girl I know had that really cathartic experience on.

Glad you had a good experience man

-GC

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

@F.U.B.A.R. Make a full report when your eyes stop wiggling. I am curious what your dose was, how much dilation you noted etc.

Dropped exactly 151mg in rizla at 7pm. Started to feel the first rushes 10 minutes later (I'd had nothing to eat and had been drinking vodka so this no doubt contributed to the rapid onset). I could already tell it wasn't meh. Come up continued to build for the next couple of hours, hard but smooth. I actually felt a little nauseous at one point which is unusual for me, but it wasn't unpleasant, more of a giddy excitement. The eye wiggles were intense and I couldn't properly focus on my eyes in the mirror to assess the pupil dilation, but it felt as though they were big. There was a huge speedy push throughout and although I was just bouncing off the walls at home with a big grin on my face, I felt socialising would have been very easy. Come down was very smooth and I finally fell asleep around 1am so the duration was about 5 hours, which beats the shit out of the meh stuff which lasts about 3 hours - if I'm lucky. I've been known to be crashed out after 1.5 hours with the Meh. Feel fine this morning, slight headache but that could be down to the booze.

Oh, I also totally forgot to take a booster, but I didn't need it because the initial dose was completely satisfying.

Overall verdict: MagicDMA...

 

[Working_Class]

A lot of what's sold as MDMA/MDA these days or since the 90s/early 00s is anything but that, especially with pressed pills.

Did you test the pressed pills you bought? If you did not, it's no wonder why you get garbage pills and powders sold as MDMA/MDA.

A friend of mine took what he thought was MDA/MDMA but it turned out to be 2C-B which he was fine with.

Based on how you said that you felt the effects of the pills the next day it sounds as though you took some MDMA/MDA that had meth in it.

I've never taken MDMA or MDA as neither of them interested me, and I certainly would not get into taking either of them now. People I know who took MDMA/MDA when they were legal in the 70s and 80s said they have no interest in taking it today.

I was just about to suggest that the pills may have had some pure MDMA in there, but there may be other adulterants in it. It's really interesting to hear about the possible precursor issue, just bringing us back to the GIGO philosophy. Garbage in garbage out for anyone who doesn't know the term. Even for pulling DMT out of select plants, the ingredients should be of the highest quality available if at all possible. Otherwise... GIGO

 

[indigoaura]

@F.U.B.A.R. The quick onset plus nausea on the come-up were both characteristics of the product I used to get. In fact, the quick onset (usually around 20 min) was such a notable characteristic, that if it was 45 minutes later and you still did not feel it, common knowledge was that it was bunk.

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

@F.U.B.A.R. The quick onset plus nausea on the come-up were both characteristics of the product I used to get. In fact, the quick onset (usually around 20 min) was such a notable characteristic, that if it was 45 minutes later and you still did not feel it, common knowledge was that it was bunk.

Yeh, I normally feel it within about half an hour if I've got an empty stomach, but this was ridiculously quick. The weird thing is that as soon as I felt the first alerts, I knew it was the good shit. There was just something about it...

 

[epic11]

@F.U.B.A.R. Surprised of your experience vs. the pic. The pic looks just like any other mdma out there. Visually looks like mehdma to me. GLAD IT WASNT! Did it smell?

 

[F.U.B.A.R.]

@F.U.B.A.R. Surprised of your experience vs. the pic. The pic looks just like any other mdma out there. Visually looks like mehdma to me. GLAD IT WASNT! Did it smell?

I don't know about that mate, in my experience it's quite rare to get colourless crystal. I know that colour isnt really an indicator for quality, but i usually find that the darker it is, the more 'meh' it is. No, there was no discernable smell, but again, that indicates nothing. One of these days I'm going to invest in a bunch of test kits just to confuse myself even further...

 

[AutoTripper]

Obviously, back then, the pill that did not "do it" could have just been weak/bunk, but maybe some of it was MehDMA even then. Who know

Note- I typed this post out late last night in a hash, but hit my touchscreen and lost the post (?).
So I gave up and have posted elsewhere today day and was catching up here when I discovered this unfinished post from last night.
So what the heck here it is only because they have been some additional comments on on the having been around for quite some time.




"Yes I can relate to this, I did comment on this a way back, how I came across a lot of pretty useless pills amongsth the good.

And how we never really put any thought into what made them different and so rubbish in comparison. I always assumed that it was not related much to dose, and I still hold by that on reflection and in hindsight I'm pretty sure of it actually.

They just appeared to be a different drug and an absolutely shit one in comparison.

This also became much more common from about 2002 onwards. So many batches going round my university town which were just useless and didn't get any of the euphoria for Magical experience MDMA just a cheap thrills and barely that for a shity come down and total dissatisfaction.

And at the same time with luck we woyld be picking up some of the very best presses you could want, and experiencing the full magic of MDMA when a day before or afterwards we could completely fail to get anywhere close to that with the the inferior product.

So there was arguable some form of MEHDMA going around for quite a long time before the real problems and drought became apparent after 2005. There was simply no magic in those pills, but always there with the good.

Once again I absolutely have to reject the loss of magic argument continually put forward here and everywhere, to account for the variation."

Okay, rounding off now from last night...

We never knew anything of MEHDMA back then. If I'm totally honest and I always am, we didn't know much about any of the drugs we took we just knew that somewhere absolutely amazing and some were not worth even taking.

Like many batches of ecstasy pills I came across I would not be interested in 1 million on my desert island retreat.

But give me 1000 each of those particular: Smileys, Limes, Snowballs, Elephants, Doves, Mitzis etc etc.
So many different batches of amazing top quality MDMA pills and at the same time so many I came across which I just would have no interest in consuming or taking with me to Utopia whatsoever.

In these cases quantity could simply never make up for quality absolutely no way.
And the magic was always there to be had with the legit pills but completely lacking with the inferior but we never really gave it any thought we just accepted something was either good or not and did our best to source the best product.

But there was plenty of the real MDMA around always up to a certain point so the distinction was clear and I guess nobody really asked too many questions.

So was that MEHDMA as it is known and experienced now? I think the only actual point I was inadvertently making was with regard to the Magic, alongside no magic at all, according to batch, regardless of tolerance, age, usage etc.

 

[AutoTripper]

@F.U.B.A.R. The quick onset plus nausea on the come-up were both characteristics of the product I used to get. In fact, the quick onset (usually around 20 min) was such a notable characteristic, that if it was 45 minutes later and you still did not feel it, common knowledge was that it was bunk.

I keep forgetting how potentially important this particular point is here- come up time.

It has been highlighted already but when since revisiting the scene recently I still have not got my head around this 45 minutes to 1 hour come up standard, at reasonably large doses as well because I was always used to 20 to 30 minutes pretty much or even less with a double drop like 10 to 15 and you would be coming up hard and fast rushing on ecstasy as they say "love that phrase hehe".

Nowhere near an hour. And yes if the effects weren't kicking in very strongly within 30 minutes then it would be apparent that dosage was a very low or the pills were not very active.

Out of all of the other variables and factors suggested and discussed when I think of this one it seems very suggestive of a real difference.

 

[Glubrahnum]

There's no guarantee that taking some drug equals good times or a profound or enjoyable experience.
If someone is 38 with no history of psychoactive drug use, I'd say that it's probably just not their thing.

One lackluster psychoactive effect could be explained that way, but not many of them, e.g.: see here.
The very specific phenotype variation needed to make one react to the 3,4-MDMA so atypically, is just too rare.

The improbability of your explanation increases even further when the physiological effects are distinguished from psychoactive effects, e.g. the lack of Mydriasis which is mediated by norepinephrine in contrast to the psychoactive effects mediated by serotonin.

Imagine the odds, that this woman (and the others) were immune to both of these agonistic properties of MDMA.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Quote from: https://mixmag.net/feature/we-went-undercover-in-a-chinese-mdma-factory

Our lab switched [in 2010] to ethyl PMK-glycidate as a precursor. This was unwatched, and we were able to source it from China at a very competitive price,” he said.

He revealed the details of his synthesis to me, and I verified the feasibility of the method with an equally expert but legitimate chemist. It wasn’t just feasible, he told me; it was beautiful. “It achieves complex molecular changes in a single concerted step, almost like watching a solar system of planets align. ‘Elegant’ is a good word for it, too. It’s the sort of thing that anyone [any organic chemist] could have come up with once it’s explained to you, but really, the first person to come up with this [method] had quite a stroke of inspiration,”

Does anyone here know what is this elegant "single concerted step" reaction ? ...and I mean more than a mere "Darzen with hydrogenation on a platinum catalyst".

 

[Kaden_Nite]

@Glubrahnum

Pupil dilation, I have seen vary from almost unnoticeable to people having eyes like guinea pigs. Same with teeth grinding, reports of levels of enjoyment and intoxication etc - all the same people, taking the same amounts of the same batch. I've experienced this personally.

This same degree of variance has been observed in clinical settings using pharmaceutical grade MDMA.


What you reported, it really doesn't sound that unusual to me. Observing someone, who may have had little interest in taking drugs, consume untested, impure street-grade MDMA before sitting on a couch for the night is not necessarily going to produce an experience that mirrors what has been painfully labelled by some as 'magic' mdma.

I understand that it was a simple observation on your part, but just for clarity, it is by no means a scientific approach to evaluating the quality of anything.

MDMA, like every other psychoactive drug, regardless of purity is simply not as consistent as you seem to expect or believe it to be.

 

[Happyhand]

Very interesting discussion. I always thought that the old Brooklyn Bombers that I got in 1992 were such a better high than the new pills and mdma I’ve experienced in the recent years. The lack of safrole as an initial ingredient may explain the difference. Thank you for this info! Very insightful!

 

[Phobos]

@Glubrahnum

Pupil dilation, I have seen vary from almost unnoticeable to people having eyes like guinea pigs. Same with teeth grinding, reports of levels of enjoyment and intoxication etc - all the same people, taking the same amounts of the same batch. I've experienced this personally.

This same degree of variance has been observed in clinical settings using pharmaceutical grade MDMA.
.............................

I always noticed I have absolutely no grinding or chewing any movement of the jaw whatsoever on any drug, the jaw muscles do become tense and keep my mouth close tight but that's it.
I always wondered if it has to do with the fact that I have a low level of jaw tension 24/7 since I was 8.

 

[nznity]

Ok guys, from my experience i thought i had lost the magic. Ive been doing pills and MDMA crystals since 2012 with breaks inbetween. Now all this fuzz about mehdma and mdma, like some of you i was skeptical at first. This year ive done around 8 different types of pills but let me tell you what happened last thrusday. So as usual, ive never done more than a pill in a rave, maybe 1 pill and a few fingers of mdma but thats it. What happened last week made me reconsider all the experience i have with MDMA. I dropped at 12am ? 3/4 of a pink redbull thats being going around in my zone lately. I thought it was just gonna be a regular roll like everytime but no, boy i was wrong. By 2 am i was coming up and coming up hard. Man i swear i felt the MAGIC once again, havrnt felt this high since 2013. The pill lasted 6hrs straight with a really smooth comedown. I thought my tolerance was permanently affected because i abused mdma for some time a few years back. Now i totally agree with LeJunk, it's all about the product, serously and a the other pills ive tried this year some of them felt just like Mehdma is described by some in this thread. 2months ago i dropped a green nintendo pill that made me feeel good aswell but nowhere near as the red bull i tried last weekend. It amuses me because 2 years ago i tried another pink redbull but didn't feel like this batch, they were good too. But the batch from Last thrusday was just outstanding 10/10 it literally floored me. Im gonna buy at least 10 more and save them for srpecial occasions since coming across really good pills os becoming harder and harder. Long story short, Long time roller here. I can assure you that mehdma is real, also nice seriously good pills are still around you just need good plugs. Thats all boys, pce. NZN

 

[heatlessbbq]

Meh. I want My MDMA.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Pupil dilation, I have seen vary from almost unnoticeable to people having eyes like guinea pigs. Same with teeth grinding, reports of levels of enjoyment and intoxication etc - all the same people, taking the same amounts of the same batch. I've experienced this personally.

Granted, such people exist, but these are exceptions to the adrenergic effects of this drug.
Furthermore, such atypical response to the adrenergic signaling disruptors (such as MDMA) is a fixed feature of the phenotype and is permanent as such, meaning that an otherwise unmedicated person will always have the same adrenergic response to the disruptor at the same dose level and period, such as this person:

I always noticed I have absolutely no grinding or chewing any movement of the jaw whatsoever on any drug, the jaw muscles do become tense and keep my mouth close tight but that's it.

...yet we have reports of different adrenergic responses from the same people after long periods of abstinence, which illustrates the variability of the substance - not the patient.

This same degree of variance has been observed in clinical settings using pharmaceutical grade MDMA.

What is the degee of this variance according to your sources and observations?

What you reported, it really doesn't sound that unusual to me. Observing someone, who may have had little interest in taking drugs, consume untested, impure street-grade MDMA before sitting on a couch for the night is not necessarily going to produce an experience that mirrors what has been painfully labelled by some as 'magic' mdma.

I understand that it was a simple observation on your part, but just for clarity, it is by no means a scientific approach to evaluating the quality of anything.

MDMA, like every other psychoactive drug, regardless of purity is simply not as consistent as you seem to expect or believe it to be.

Even if the psychoactive effects are slightly dependent on the set and setting, it does not mean that the physiological effects are so inconsistent. Especially to the adrenergic disruptors.
The other four 1st-time users, that I have observed first-hand, consumed a well-tested drug and all had the same atypical physiologic response combined with atypical psychoactive effects (serotonergic effects)

These observations (and others by other members of this forum) are just too much of a coincidence to be dismissed as phenotypal variability.

 

[Glubrahnum]

Conversely, the chemical testing that I have documented in this thread showed a lot of variability of the street samples of this substance such as different enantiomer ratios of the tartrate salts, unreacted precursors sold as MDMA, a 2,3-methylenedioxy precursor being used and various contaminants (some isobaric, which are indistinguishable by mass spectrometry).

So far I have observed more variability in the substance than in the "patients"

 

[epic11]

I don't know about that mate, in my experience it's quite rare to get colourless crystal. I know that colour isnt really an indicator for quality, but i usually find that the darker it is, the more 'meh' it is. No, there was no discernable smell, but again, that indicates nothing. One of these days I'm going to invest in a bunch of test kits just to confuse myself even further...

And you see, im the complete opposite. First of all, its easier than its ever been right now to get that colorless crystal. In my experience, CLEAR crystals like this have always produced mehdma feelings. When something brown/cola/or tan actually works much better. So if we both experience a complete 180 of ideas about this topic, it means no1 is wrong. The color was just never the answer.

 

[epic11]

I keep forgetting how potentially important this particular point is here- come up time.

It has been highlighted already but when since revisiting the scene recently I still have not got my head around this 45 minutes to 1 hour come up standard, at reasonably large doses as well because I was always used to 20 to 30 minutes pretty much or even less with a double drop like 10 to 15 and you would be coming up hard and fast rushing on ecstasy as they say "love that phrase hehe".

Nowhere near an hour. And yes if the effects weren't kicking in very strongly within 30 minutes then it would be apparent that dosage was a very low or the pills were not very active.

Out of all of the other variables and factors suggested and discussed when I think of this one it seems very suggestive of a real difference.

The best rolls ive had hit me in 30 mins. Not saying hour comeups are always gonna be bad, but the best hardest rolls ive had hit FAST.

Personal request: If your post is a wall of text, im probably gonna skip it. For my lazy ass, can we summarize posts please? Keep em short and to the point.