F.U.B.A.R.
Bluelight Crew
Yes, because its not satisfying so you're chasing a feeling that is unattainable, no matter how large the initial dose or how many redoses you take.
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MDMA &
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What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2
- Thread starter Le Junk
- Start date
Yes, because its not satisfying so you're chasing a feeling that is unattainable, no matter how large the initial dose or how many redoses you take.
I may have that problem.
Tried some for 1st time in September n one capsule felt good.
Then tried more in march and may from a person and was not the same. Still made jaw go but pupils weren't like dinner plates like that September time.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
“Surely happening”?
But I thought you said “surely happening”???
Regardless, this is a pretty good, educated guess. Nicely done, Biscuit; and you might be right. I dunno.
However, about that Australian report…
Hear, hear.
But I think “we really want” is the right wording; not so much a “need” in the strictest sense, ya know?
Are you making that assumption based on that 2016 Australian report?
This is a six-year-old report from a geographically isolated country of 26 million reporting on data from seized ecstasy only. We cannot and should not extrapolate and extend that data to be representative of Europe (population > 747 million), North America (population > 579 million), and/or South America (population > 423 million) and the drug-taking habits therein.
That sounds like an unholy idea…
Hear, hear.
When Sasha was still alive and before the dementia sunk in, he was really good about corresponding w/people on these sorts of topics. I don’t imagine you would’ve needed to cross continents to gain knowledge from him. Many moons ago, circa 2003, I was incarcerated with someone who had a case for 5-MeO-DiPT and they had reached out to him and were in regular correspondence with him vis-à-vis the Federal Analogue Act and its different implications.
Perhaps you could reach out to Dr. David Nichols or maybe actually his son, Dr. Charles Nichols, and ask him to chime in. You can find his email address by running a WHOIS search on the domain 5ht2a.com.
MountainTrails
Bluelighter
I have been overwhelmed by stuff lately, and and am dealing today with a ton of anxiety/stress, but I don't want this to disappear without at least a placeholder comment.
I could talk a lot about late diagnosis. That's probably outside the scope of this thread.
The vast majority of MDMA users take it seeking a "good/happy feeling." (How's that for generalization?) I've had conversations and seen interviews/videos with autists re MDMA, and a lessened/missing "good/happy feeling" is surprisingly not uncommon. That's the atypical response I referred to. There could be a lot of reasons for that (including "What is wrong with the MDMA available today"), and of course what's going on would vary by individual case, but the MAPS study would shed light one way or the other.
In my case (which seems really complicated with a lot of potential factors/reasons), I have never gotten the "good feeling." Very interestingly, I have seen therapeutic benefit. Increased (or renewed) interest in communication with others and less anxiety about that. Also, I am definitely tracking a longer-term increased awareness (maybe even more control) of my emotions. Seems to me there are clues about neurological circuitry and receptor subtype function in there if the autistic population contains a statistically significant atypical response. To say nothing of active-mind modeling and analog blending of different circuits via signal modulation (up/down receptor regulation).
And re that last bit (neurological circuitry and receptor subtype function), I believe that's exactly where Matt Baggott and Tactogen are engaged studying various molecules/substances to find effective therapeutic solutions that are "gentler" (their words).
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indigoaura
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I definitely had the good/happy feeling in my early years of use, through 2005 or so. More than just good and happy though...profound, enlightened, open, aware, in-touch, divine...I could go on and on.
This probably deserves a separate thread, honestly.
I have recently wondered if the dopamine response of an ADHD individual is one reason why MDMA always helped me to hear more detail in music. Possible that the dopamine release simply allowed me to focus more. Would I have a similar response from ADHD meds? I don't know as I have not tried any.
Good MDMA will definitely help me to communicate more and with less anxiety. However, some of the Meh batches have had the opposite effect and made me not want to talk AT ALL, and just wish everyone would leave me alone.
I agree that there is a lot to unpack with all of this, and many routes of study. I am hoping if the FDA approves MDMA for PTSD it will at least open the doors on additional research regarding response, magic, loss of magic, etc.
MountainTrails
Bluelighter
Thanks for the personal details re typical/atypical. As for a separate thread, I'm honestly very skeptical given the lack of comments/feedback on just about everything I've posted anywhere near the topic.
I won't derail further, and sorry for the interruption. But one more thing, because I do think it's relevant to the thread topic generally.
https://phys.org/news/2022-06-scientists-breakthrough-serotonin-receptors.html?utm_content=212062120
indigoaura
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Well, I would personally love to discuss more, so I may start a separate thread and see what comes of it.
This is a great link. Reviewing it now. Thanks for the share!
Hilopsilo
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https://www.drugsdata.org/view.php?id=13264 this MDA looks like the magic
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
I will say the crystals do look quite clean, but it's only 50 mg in that capsule. And also it's in Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina, and while this could be worse, no disrespect to the Cackalackas, but I'll pass, lol.
Hilopsilo
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1st multiday festival since before da pandemic, woo-hoo!
As always my only credentials are lotsa ppl taking MDMA I know to be perfectly fine. But all falsified if I actually don't, and we actually got dog shit, & don't know it
Setting aside my most confident hunches about the MDMA itself ("synthesis byproduct" going undetected & at the very least watering down the potency of the dose-weight you took), I'm further & further convinced this stuff is highly highly highly sensitive to set & setting just as much or more than a psych.
This festival is primarily trying to be on a bit more of a legacy ting when it comes to the "bass music", we joke DJ's have to sign a contract to not play abrasive music. Lots of old skool house, techno, breaks, deep dubstep, halftime, footwork, jungle, you name it. With a metric fuck ton of sub bass. This dope & very unique for NA, but this comes at the expense of high energy, punchy midrange tunes. You are often lost in just a wall of rumbly sub bass, sometimes clouding the rest of the music, energy in the crowd dips really low, its palpable & the bassweight alone loses its wow factor after not too long. It's a rare occasion for something properly "hard" to come on. But when it does, you see the crowd come alive, & ppl standup.
I am now CONVINCED that high energy, punchy music with lots of activity in the midrange makes MDMA work. I took MDMA on the sunday, same-dose-same-stuff as always, and was completely unable to roll for like 90 min after my comeup had fully ended. Until, the hardest DNB set of the weekend at like 3AM, there was actual hard punch in the drums & the crunchy bass sounds were so euphoric. During this set myself, and so many ppl I was with (and observing), just were totally activated. You watch people just POP UP and yell when a banger would come on; become part of the environment vs. spectator mode
. And when that set was done, back to deep-heady-droning hip-hoppy beats, which is still nice, but the energy was gone again, as soon as it started. I've discussed this with a few of my closer friends and they experienced the same thing this weekend.
The caveat here is that, while I have my theories about the physical-sonic effects music (esp on a big system) has on people more (sub)consciously, but more importantly, you want music YOU like. Pick something with energy & play it loud, not saying neuro drum n bass is the solution to your problems, but it might be conceptually. Ever since the 1st day I took MDMA 12 years ago, it was like sound is being hardwired into my brain, if its full of exciting frequencies I become that way; I start jammin, heart rate goes up, grinning, eyes dilate-> gurn->eye wiggle-> hugz, the rest is history. Otherwise I kind of end up in this emo-ish slump w/ a heart 2 heart here n there?? The tension-breaking effect that hard or high energy music provides seems to propel me forward emotionally & energetically.
& just in general, at this sort of festival I see a lot less ppl just gurning the fuck out to hard music (y'know, where you're like now THAT guy is on one), surely MDMA is still one of the most common things people are taking, but I see a shift towards junktivising on coke, ket & alcohol for long long long hours. Seeing the ppl who take MDMA eventually fuk off to bed, or succumb to fracking like the rest of em & continue the binge.
At this point, I see almost no coincidence that the notably hardest times I've rolled were the most buckwild scenarios; insane sound, insane tunes, insane lights/production value, surrounded by the best people, NO bad vibes. As in, the idea that I perceived these scenarios as just that good was BECAUSE of the MDMA itself, not the other way around, seems so much more farfetched after having this same batch for this long. Good MDMA is not gonna magically make a bad show a good one.
Analyzing this MDMA "problem" as a dialectic between just the self & the substance is an incomplete analysis, and totally falls prey to the same problems with pop psychology & capitalist western ideas about mental health (individualism, "You are a unique brain w/ unique problems in a vat, and just aren't taking the right thing yet").
As always my only credentials are lotsa ppl taking MDMA I know to be perfectly fine. But all falsified if I actually don't, and we actually got dog shit, & don't know it
Setting aside my most confident hunches about the MDMA itself ("synthesis byproduct" going undetected & at the very least watering down the potency of the dose-weight you took), I'm further & further convinced this stuff is highly highly highly sensitive to set & setting just as much or more than a psych.
This festival is primarily trying to be on a bit more of a legacy ting when it comes to the "bass music", we joke DJ's have to sign a contract to not play abrasive music. Lots of old skool house, techno, breaks, deep dubstep, halftime, footwork, jungle, you name it. With a metric fuck ton of sub bass. This dope & very unique for NA, but this comes at the expense of high energy, punchy midrange tunes. You are often lost in just a wall of rumbly sub bass, sometimes clouding the rest of the music, energy in the crowd dips really low, its palpable & the bassweight alone loses its wow factor after not too long. It's a rare occasion for something properly "hard" to come on. But when it does, you see the crowd come alive, & ppl standup.
I am now CONVINCED that high energy, punchy music with lots of activity in the midrange makes MDMA work. I took MDMA on the sunday, same-dose-same-stuff as always, and was completely unable to roll for like 90 min after my comeup had fully ended. Until, the hardest DNB set of the weekend at like 3AM, there was actual hard punch in the drums & the crunchy bass sounds were so euphoric. During this set myself, and so many ppl I was with (and observing), just were totally activated. You watch people just POP UP and yell when a banger would come on; become part of the environment vs. spectator mode
. And when that set was done, back to deep-heady-droning hip-hoppy beats, which is still nice, but the energy was gone again, as soon as it started. I've discussed this with a few of my closer friends and they experienced the same thing this weekend.The caveat here is that, while I have my theories about the physical-sonic effects music (esp on a big system) has on people more (sub)consciously, but more importantly, you want music YOU like. Pick something with energy & play it loud, not saying neuro drum n bass is the solution to your problems, but it might be conceptually. Ever since the 1st day I took MDMA 12 years ago, it was like sound is being hardwired into my brain, if its full of exciting frequencies I become that way; I start jammin, heart rate goes up, grinning, eyes dilate-> gurn->eye wiggle-> hugz, the rest is history. Otherwise I kind of end up in this emo-ish slump w/ a heart 2 heart here n there?? The tension-breaking effect that hard or high energy music provides seems to propel me forward emotionally & energetically.
& just in general, at this sort of festival I see a lot less ppl just gurning the fuck out to hard music (y'know, where you're like now THAT guy is on one), surely MDMA is still one of the most common things people are taking, but I see a shift towards junktivising on coke, ket & alcohol for long long long hours. Seeing the ppl who take MDMA eventually fuk off to bed, or succumb to fracking like the rest of em & continue the binge.
At this point, I see almost no coincidence that the notably hardest times I've rolled were the most buckwild scenarios; insane sound, insane tunes, insane lights/production value, surrounded by the best people, NO bad vibes. As in, the idea that I perceived these scenarios as just that good was BECAUSE of the MDMA itself, not the other way around, seems so much more farfetched after having this same batch for this long. Good MDMA is not gonna magically make a bad show a good one.
Analyzing this MDMA "problem" as a dialectic between just the self & the substance is an incomplete analysis, and totally falls prey to the same problems with pop psychology & capitalist western ideas about mental health (individualism, "You are a unique brain w/ unique problems in a vat, and just aren't taking the right thing yet").
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I did some yesterday. Drank more beer while was on it but kept myself hydrated too. Took a 2nd one and kept drinking. Turned me into a rubber man that couldn't stand up straight.
Horrible hangover and really bad vomit that stained the toilet bowl and was really acidy on my teeth .
Still had a decent night
Horrible hangover and really bad vomit that stained the toilet bowl and was really acidy on my teeth .
Still had a decent night
Hilopsilo
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Can't remember if I posted before, but i've set aside the prettiest crystals of what I believe to be highly pure MDMA. When crushed to a powder, there is a light MDMA scent.
To my knowledge, it was made in Canada and the source says made w/ safrole in a less than large operation. Take that with 2 romantic grains of pink salt, but to me nothing seems untrustworthy about the finer details that I won't share here.
Obviously looks are meaningless and counter to harm reduction if actual testing hasn't taken place, but with those boxes checked I'm always on the lookout for stuff that looks like this. I always window shop the MDMA of dealers that come by trying to sell to our festival campsites, this is not a common form & have not come across it this way (granted dealers often get the product crushed already).
Apologies if I'm breaching any sourcing stuff
To my knowledge, it was made in Canada and the source says made w/ safrole in a less than large operation. Take that with 2 romantic grains of pink salt, but to me nothing seems untrustworthy about the finer details that I won't share here.
Obviously looks are meaningless and counter to harm reduction if actual testing hasn't taken place, but with those boxes checked I'm always on the lookout for stuff that looks like this. I always window shop the MDMA of dealers that come by trying to sell to our festival campsites, this is not a common form & have not come across it this way (granted dealers often get the product crushed already).
Apologies if I'm breaching any sourcing stuff
You tried it though?
Hilopsilo
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Yes, been taking 100mg doses of this same MDMA for like 2 years, 6 times i think? Works great, I would consider it the magic stuff, but it doesn't miraculously work for ppl in my group who have trouble with MDMA working "properly", which has led me to be skeptical of this dichotomy between magic & meh. Myself as a test subject, the same 100mg dose is not the same each time, and feels highly influenced by set & setting, the roll is subdued to varying degrees if things are less than ideal. I do wonder how crazy i'd get from 125mg; the time i rolled the hardest ever I didn't have the pleasure of weighing out the cap myself or confirming its weight.
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Buzz Lightbeer
Bluelight Crew
Gave a friend some MDMA for the first time at a festival last week
He had a fantastic experience, everything you'd expect from quality MDMA.
There was a while where I really had a hard time finding good MDMA and pills, and I still have some shitty pills and multiple grams of abhorrently bad MDMA matching the description of all the MehDMA people were talking about in the past few years. I've had both, intermittently, and in my experience the difference in effects is insane and undoubtedly there.
MDMA never blew me away though, especially not in the sense that I've seen others roll. I don't get too lovey and for sure don't experience pure "euphoria". But others do, on the same MDMA.
He had a fantastic experience, everything you'd expect from quality MDMA.
There was a while where I really had a hard time finding good MDMA and pills, and I still have some shitty pills and multiple grams of abhorrently bad MDMA matching the description of all the MehDMA people were talking about in the past few years. I've had both, intermittently, and in my experience the difference in effects is insane and undoubtedly there.
MDMA never blew me away though, especially not in the sense that I've seen others roll. I don't get too lovey and for sure don't experience pure "euphoria". But others do, on the same MDMA.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
I tend to think of drug-induced euphoria as falling into one of three overall categories:
- Numbness euphoria – from drugs that numb the mind and body, offering relief from pain as well as anxiety. I include opioids, barbiturates, benzos and “z-drugs” like Ambien. Also, dissociatives have one foot here and the other in psychedelics. The common thread is the numbness and detachment from certain feelings.
- Stimulant euphoria – from stims that hijack dopamine and adrenaline. Sometimes serotonin comes into play with the heavy-hitters like MDMA and methamphetamine, both of which can be profoundly euphoric but come with some risks. This stands in contrast to the aforementioned numbed euphoric state – the user is placed deeply and firmly within their own bodies with heightened senses as opposed to feeling numbed, sleepy, dreamy, dissociated and/or detached.
- Psychedelic euphoria – This is not for everyone, and it’s perilous hiking the side of this particular, steep mountain into nirvana. It takes practice, discipline, courage, and a willingness to place oneself in a state of vulnerability in order to achieve higher states of consciousness. In the lower states of psychedelic euphoria, the experience is in the body with heightened senses sort of over-stimulated in a way, producing psychedelic effects. At highly increased doses, or in the case of certain compounds like n,n-DMT, the user can undergo ego death and feel completely detached and dissociated from their corporeal body. There is a great deal of insight to be had by visiting these states in one’s mind’s eye, so to speak. But again: it isn’t for everyone, unfortunately.
Buzz Lightbeer
Bluelight Crew
Yeah, I've never experienced any real euphoria from serotonin releasers, I enjoy them, of course, and have really tried, but by now I just know very well what I'll get from the ones I know at least. Never tried methamphetamine, but these days my main hope is on MDA which does sound like it has massive recreational potential and like something that I'd enjoy more than MDMA. Very rare in Europe though...
Recreationally, psychedelics are indeed unmatched. I've actually never combined a psychedelic with MDMA, as far as I recall right now, intuitively it feels like I'd be muddying the waters too much but what is my intuition in the face of mountains of anecdotal evidence
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
That's a shame. MDMA euphoria is unique and intense. MDA comes close but is more psychedelic, grittier, and less empathogenic, less anxiolytic. In my opinion, 5- and 6-APB and their n-methylated structural analogues get close to MDMA's euphoria, too, and are enjoyable, but still aren't quite MDMA. There's also 4-FA which isn't bad, and methylone, which some people like and others loathe, but both these drugs are in the MDMA ballpark, at least. You've got 3-MMC and 4-MMC, but they're like if MDMA and Cocaine had a baby and it grew up to be a drug…
And the other big one is methamphetamine. Different state and profound for different reasons, but it's a very powerful euphoriant that's surprisingly really smooth if you have good gear and use it properly. It doesn't mix well with MDMA, tending to override MDMA's effects temporarily whilst also inducing synergistic neurotoxic effects – basically a waste of good drugs and brain cells all due to poor timing of sequences. Timing is everything.
Yep, recreational potential confirmed. I think I like it better than MDMA, but they each have their place. MDMA has a worse hangover to me, though. Also, I can take and enjoy MDA by myself, but MDMA is lonely without some company, something that is somehow both a merit and a demerit depending on circumstances. Either way, MDMA is too social to take alone, for me, but I don't feel this way about MDA (or virtually any other drug for that matter).
Also, at one point circa 1992, MDA was quite ubiquitous throughout Europe in the form of these tightly pressed white pills called "Snowballs". They came from Latvia – financially strapped following the collapse of the Soviet Union – and they used this blackmarket MDA operation as a way to mitigate some of that financial hardship. What they put out though were pills containing a smackdown dose of 200 mg MDA per pill… and that's MDA, not MDMA… MDA is more potent, and like I said, more psychedelic. At high doses it can become a deliriant.
Depends what you're into. Different strokes for different folks.
Even Dr. Shulgin advocated what he called "piggybacking"—what many people today call "candy-flipping"—with his suggestion being to go from MDMA into 2C-B, dropping the 2C-B just after the MDMA peak, one fading into the other. I like to candyflip LSD. The MDMA tends to give the acid trip a warmer, brighter character wherein my social skills and language abilities are not compromised as much as they typically are while tripping. So depending on the mood, set, setting, company, and other factors, it sometimes makes more sense to candyflip as it lengthens the overall trip/roll time, lets me trip without communication issues, and gives me plenty of energy to pull an all-nighter (which I typically do when I candyflip (unless there's K involved, then I'm crashing into a couple k-holes and passing out)).
As for "muddying the waters" – well, to an extent I guess you could choose to see things that way, but I see it differently. Firstly, MDMA causes nystagmus, and when that's coupled with geometric visual-overlay, static-image-replication, and long glowing multi-colored trails, well that's Jackpot Money™ – intense bliss for a couple hours, the psychedelic euphoria washing over you in colorful waves. The MDMA tends to mask the anxiogenesis of the LSD come-up, that energy working instead to extend MDMA's duration and provide an adrenaline boost before the next peak.
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Hilopsilo
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Alright, so at the last minute I decided to go to another 3-day festival this past weekend, ticket was basically free so what could I say.
Ended up taking 100mg on Friday, and 100mg on Saturday, both with a very moderate dose of LSD taken many hours earlier. I... I almost rest my case on this subject, this place is a HIGHLY STIMULATING ENVIRONMENT... State of the art sound, lights, huge variety of music all the way up to the most aggressive stuff out there, just constant love in the crowd, etc.
This was the SAME DAMN CAP I took 2 weeks earlier at the other festival I wrote about a couple posts back, and this time I got straight BLASTED, way way way higher. Like, I felt like I could hardly breathe or stand on the comeup & 1 of my friends was actually kinda worried about me, almost took myself to the "sanctuary" to check myself:hypno: I haven't gotten eye wiggles in years, which seemed to be literally triggered by when the stage lasers were really popping off.
The sunday 100mg dose was more under control, obviously more relaxed by then and I braced myself for that same comeup. But same thing, once the jangle of a comeup is over & I feel calm+grounded (I just have to walk by myself for a while), getting near a stage thats really going off, this is basically me, the rest is history:
I really believe MDMA's efficacy has at least somewhat to do with how much stimulation you're getting, for all your senses. Cause me walking around to get through my comeup I often have to look down & away from anything chaotic, even a large crowd walking by; I think I'm sort of trying to turn down the stumuli to get a handle on myself. Its telling that MDMA is associated with crazy music, crazy lights, all this touchy feely massage stuff, even good smells...
Ended up taking 100mg on Friday, and 100mg on Saturday, both with a very moderate dose of LSD taken many hours earlier. I... I almost rest my case on this subject, this place is a HIGHLY STIMULATING ENVIRONMENT... State of the art sound, lights, huge variety of music all the way up to the most aggressive stuff out there, just constant love in the crowd, etc.
This was the SAME DAMN CAP I took 2 weeks earlier at the other festival I wrote about a couple posts back, and this time I got straight BLASTED, way way way higher. Like, I felt like I could hardly breathe or stand on the comeup & 1 of my friends was actually kinda worried about me, almost took myself to the "sanctuary" to check myself:hypno: I haven't gotten eye wiggles in years, which seemed to be literally triggered by when the stage lasers were really popping off.
The sunday 100mg dose was more under control, obviously more relaxed by then and I braced myself for that same comeup. But same thing, once the jangle of a comeup is over & I feel calm+grounded (I just have to walk by myself for a while), getting near a stage thats really going off, this is basically me, the rest is history:
I really believe MDMA's efficacy has at least somewhat to do with how much stimulation you're getting, for all your senses. Cause me walking around to get through my comeup I often have to look down & away from anything chaotic, even a large crowd walking by; I think I'm sort of trying to turn down the stumuli to get a handle on myself. Its telling that MDMA is associated with crazy music, crazy lights, all this touchy feely massage stuff, even good smells...
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