What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[unodelacosa]

No. Therefore I wrote straight to black. :^) And mine and others experiences seem to agree with your experience. If a bit of purple, better chances of it being magic.

Right, this is what I was thinking as well.

To me, 8 mg insufflated is about the same as 15 mg orally. Enough to get effects easily distinguishable from placebo.

Fair. You know, if you mix it with a bit of sodium carbonate and a drop of water, you can vaporize 2C-B as well. It's more anxiogenic for me this way though… And again: it takes less to get high AF.

No preference, all depending on setting. If out and about or not wanting people thinking that I'm stranger than I am, AL-LAD or 2C-B are surely better choices than LSD or 2C-E. Yes, insufflating any salt of 2C-B hurt as hell. Therefore I usually boof it nowdays.

Neither practical nor social, but I suppose a more efficient RoA, lol.

Well, it sometimes MAY imply, albeit not prove.

In logic, the technical use of the word "implies" means "is a sufficient condition for".

Would be nice to hear others experiences here. Do you take more, less or the same amount of psychedelic when flipping?

Agreed.

Haven't counted, but not more than 10 from what I remember. Though I guess it would be easy to find more if looking through reddit. So from a science perspective it is worth nothing, except for maybe generating hypothesis we can later test scientifically.
I know. Still, if hundreds of people would confirm, it surely tells us something, right?

It gives a clue where to look, but it's just not conclusive evidence. At least, not for yours truly.

With 3-FEA you need 150-250 mg to roll. More similar to 5-MAPB than MDMA though. But way better than the shitty MDMA I've gotten the past 5 years.

Interesting. Yeah 5-MAPB surprised me with how good it was. Not quite the same as MDMA, but a lovely experience nonetheless.

I'm of the opinion that you get wiser by talking to those who don't agree with you (and not by joining a club where everyone thinks the same). And I don't know what we don't agree on. Everything I say is my best guess in this moment in time. I just hear you saying that we need hard data (replicatable) before we can say anything for sure. But I need no hard data to be certain that this thread would not have existed for so long if it wasn't anything to the idea that something is wrong with (some) the MDMA today.

And that's where opinions diverge for us. I need hard data and question anyone's certainty without it. Not to say that you don't feel certain. I'm sure you do. (I guess I'm certain that you're certain, lol). But I question if your confidence is misplaced.

No exciting story, just being a senior in the US (exchange student) with a friend who had a friend who went to college in California and who was selling it. He brought some home to the East Coast for Easter 1997 wich we bought. Was 100 mg of crystals white in tinfoil. I had an after glow for 3 months! :^)

Whoa, hang on a second there. The first time you wrote 1987; but you meant 1997, and that decade makes a big difference in the availability of the drug, MDMA, bruvvaaaaaaa.

 

[simstim]

No. Therefore I wrote straight to black. :^) And mine and others experiences seem to agree with your experience. If a bit of purple, better chances of it being magic.

To me, 8 mg insufflated is about the same as 15 mg orally. Enough to get effects easily distinguishable from placebo.

No preference, all depending on setting. If out and about or not wanting people thinking that I'm stranger than I am, AL-LAD or 2C-B are surely better choices than LSD or 2C-E. Yes, insufflating any salt of 2C-B hurt as hell. Therefore I usually boof it nowdays. But if I stagger 2C-B HBr in say 2-4 mg bumps with 5-10 min between bumps, it is bearable for a masochist. At least it does not burn holes in my mucous membranes like 2C-T-21 does.

Well, it sometimes MAY imply, albeit not prove.

Would be nice to hear others experiences here. Do you take more, less or the same amount of psychedelic when flipping?

Haven't counted, but not more than 10 from what I remember. Though I guess it would be easy to find more if looking through reddit. So from a science perspective it is worth nothing, except for maybe generating hypothesis we can later test scientifically.

I know. Still, if hundreds of people would confirm, it surely tells us something, right?

Harder to find for sure, but I do think what I have is legit. When I combined with oral THC and a psychedelic, I had the most believable hallucinations I've ever had. And absolutely no difference if I had my eyes open or close. Very weird experience. Very clearheaded also.

:^)

I am aware. That is one reason I value your presence in this thread. I sometimes regret not becoming a chemist, as I wanted in my mid teens... Did learn to make nice bombs though. :^)

Well, next time I encounter MehDMA I will try a heftier dose of K (if available).

Well, I'm a mixture of the Queens English (which was what I learned at school), and what I picked up during my senior year in the US.

Yes, may try that, probably going to the East Coast next autumn.

Sometimes I was really, really, hoping for magic, and if anything, I've hyped MDMA to my friend (who's yet to experience magic MDMA). And as others have said in this thread, real, magic, MDMA usually doesn't seem to care about set and setting (at least not like psychedelics does) in regards to many of its effects. Of course being at a rave or with two therapists for treatment of your trauma will be very different experiences. Still music enhancement, empathy and tactile enhancement will be the same, IME.

With 3-FEA you need 150-250 mg to roll. More similar to 5-MAPB than MDMA though. But way better than the shitty MDMA I've gotten the past 5 years.

I'm of the opinion that you get wiser by talking to those who don't agree with you (and not by joining a club where everyone thinks the same). And I don't know what we don't agree on. Everything I say is my best guess in this moment in time. I just hear you saying that we need hard data (replicatable) before we can say anything for sure. But I need no hard data to be certain that this thread would not have existed for so long if it wasn't anything to the idea that something is wrong with (some) the MDMA today.

No exciting story, just being a senior in the US (exchange student) with a friend who had a friend who went to college in California and who was selling it. He brought some home to the East Coast for Easter 1987 wich we bought. Was 100 mg of crystals white in tinfoil. I had an after glow for 3 months! :^)

You should try 3-MMC. I think it's a lot more MDMA like roll than 5-MAPB, 4-FA, basically better than lots of stuff. I haven't tried 3-FEA. 3-MMC is really good for flipping too.

 

[PsychedelicSummer]

Right, this is what I was thinking as well.

Fair. You know, if you mix it with a bit of sodium carbonate and a drop of water, you can vaporize 2C-B as well. It's more anxiogenic for me this way though… And again: it takes less to get high AF.

Neither practical nor social, but I suppose a more efficient RoA, lol.

In logic, the technical use of the word "implies" means "is a sufficient condition for".

Didn't know that. Meant it to mean "to contain potentially" (one meaning of imply according to Merriam-Webster).

Agreed.

It gives a clue where to look, but it's just not conclusive evidence. At least, not for yours truly.

Agreed.

Interesting. Yeah 5-MAPB surprised me with how good it was. Not quite the same as MDMA, but a lovely experience nonetheless.

And that's where opinions diverge for us. I need hard data and question anyone's certainty without it. Not to say that you don't feel certain. I'm sure you do. (I guess I'm certain that you're certain, lol). But I question if your confidence is misplaced.

I'm only certain that I and many others experience a marked difference in effect from some batches of MDMA and that this phenomena appeard to become more common after safrole became much more difficult to obtain. Phenomenological experience do contain data, but of course the data is much less tangible and measurable than hard data. This whole tread is trying to find the hard data behind a changed experience. Of course everything are guesses until someone does the job in the lab and present us with an explanation which others can confirm.

Whoa, hang on a second there. The first time you wrote 1987; but you meant 1997, and that decade makes a big difference in the availability of the drug, MDMA, bruvvaaaaaaa.

That was a typo, now edited to 1987.

 

[unodelacosa]

Meant it to mean "to contain potentially" (one meaning of imply according to Merriam-Webster).

Yeah I know and the confusion is understandable, but I didn't make this up. In Latin, this is called cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

Moreover, this is literally the title of the Wikipedia article I referenced earlier: “Correlation does not imply causation”

That was a typo, now edited to 1987.

Holy shit, really? I thought you meant 1997. Rolling in '87 was—as I'm sure you know—significantly less common. That's pretty remarkable.

Nice.

 

[TripSitterNZ]

so with this magic mdma 100 mg put me and my friend on our ass rolling like magic love for hours was a bit overpowering for her at some stages this was weeks ago. Smooth come up smooth come down not much of a hangover other than feeling tired for a week.

I won't take mdma again that was my first time in a long time. I been there had my fun and love it to bits this last roll managed to be very thepartuic just out in nature smoking weed talking about life.

 

[unodelacosa]

not much of a hangover other than feeling tired for a week.

Yeah you know, just seven days… Lol, how can you consider that “not much of a hangover”? MDMA has always been known for its brutal hangover… Back in the day, we called it Suicide Tuesday.

 

[simstim]

Yeah you know, just seven days… Lol, how can you consider that “not much of a hangover”? MDMA has always been known for its brutal hangover… Back in the day, we called it Suicide Tuesday.

I don't really get bad comedowns from MDMA, but a few months ago I tried tripping on the fourth day after a three day MDMA binge (no sleep still). That was a difficult experience.

 

[unodelacosa]

I don't really get bad comedowns from MDMA, but a few months ago I tried tripping on the fourth day after a three day MDMA binge (no sleep still). That was a difficult experience.

Yeah candyflipping really takes it out of me. By the time the trip is over, I'm usually spent and ready to passTF out, no benzo assistance needed (but some K is usually nice if I can muster the energy). But yeah three days awake on MDMA is brutality. Shit would have me feeling like hot, wet garbage back when I would still make that move. My hat goes off to you for still making that move. We aren't getting any younger, you know…

 

[TripSitterNZ]

Yeah you know, just seven days… Lol, how can you consider that “not much of a hangover”? MDMA has always been known for its brutal hangover… Back in the day, we called it Suicide Tuesday.

when i use to abuse mdma heavily my comedowns would last for over a month of brain zaps and suicidal thoughts. So one week of just been drained aint bad for me

 

[In_A_Transit]

In the Orlando area MDMA is almost non existent. In the 90's you could get good Dutch pills for $7-$10. I've been looking for a while and all the pills are meth and I don't even know what the molly is but it's not MDMA. Good MDMA was just so cheap and plentiful back then. I suppose it all depends on your connect now a days but it was just so easy to get killer rolls back then. You didn't have to know anybody.

I'd agree with the rest of your statement. I'm just glad real, quality LSD is back. It was extremely difficultt to find for a while.

Sorry for not contributing much to the topic...lol

agreed

 

[dragonix]

Does it all come down to profit over people?

 

[HeadphonesandLSD]

I know you guys say you've ruled it out but I'm wondering if you all just built up tolerance to positive effects like euphoria but not to other effects. The reason I say this is I had a friend that really used/abused MDMA hard before I met him. He used to lurk this thread a lot and claimed all modern MDMA was crap. Complained about all the things you guys complain about the MehDMA.

I gifted him a pill I knew was very strong. He saved it for months and took it at a show one night. Called me up after to tell me I needed to call the guy that supplied it to me because it was shit. I told him I wasn't particularly worried about it but I'm sorry he had a bad time.

A few months later I went to Disney World and took the other pill I had with me. On my last day/night there we had a big family fight. None of it was my fault but I caught all the shit for everyone else not being able to get along. I decided I was going to go off by myself that night and to hell with everyone. I hopped on the bus to the Epcot center and popped the pill expecting it to be a mild dose. I have no idea what it was dosed at but I know it had to be way over my usual dose (which is about 100-120mg). I could have gotten away with taking half the pill.

I was a mess. Eye wobbles, jaw clenching, massive overwhelming euphoria, eyes as big as saucers, and everything else you'd expect. I ended up on this ride as I was peaking:

Then when I got off I bought a ton of pins/small toys and started giving them away to random people in the park. I even yammered on to a group of tourists in broken Japanese for who knows how long. Gave away LSD to a group of cheerleaders visiting the park that week. Gave one of the guys that was with them the last of my pot stash. He thought I was setting him up at first until I explained I had to catch a flight in a few hours.

By 3am I was still incredibly high sitting on a park bench enjoying the sound of crickets. Until I realized they weren't real and the trees had speakers in them. The entire place is fake and I hate it. I went to the arcade and gave some kid my card with like $30 worth of credits on it. Tried to fall asleep (didn't happen). Had to go through TSA on no sleep in massive afterglow. It really took it out of me I slept for 2 days once I got home.

I do not feel much difference between what I get and the MDMA I was doing in the early 2000s. But I'm also someone that has like 10 uses total for my entire life. MDMA still never fails to give me all the positive effects you guys say are missing from it in 2020. I am 99% sure the MDMA I get comes from the darknet like everyone else. Same goes for the MDA I can source.

I just don't know. Whatever is going on I'm sorry you guys aren't feeling the magic like you used to. The last time I got into my batch of MDMA I had an orgasm just sitting in my easy chair. I wasn't even thinking of anything sexual or masturbating. I got a wave of euphoria and it just happened. Ruined my good shorts.

 

[unodelacosa]

Does it all come down to profit over people?

I'm not really sure. I would like to think not and consider that view cynical and reductionist, but it's difficult not to draw this conclusion. It doesn't help that drug traffickers have a really shitty reputation, whether fully deserved or just a stereotype hyped up by the media.

I imagine “profit over people” is not the sole motive operandi in play here. My guess is there's some degree of amateurism, at least with regard to chemical engineering. Otherwise it's self-sabotaging in that the net effect here is a drop in quality, not just a drop in safety standards, does that make sense? If you think about it – good, pure MDMA will sell way better than any imposter bullshit would. While some will disagree with me here, I've always felt that reputation is paramount to the successful sales of contraband drugs, especially in the medium-to-long run.

I know you guys say you've ruled it out but I'm wondering if you all just built up tolerance to positive effects like euphoria but not to other effects.

Firstly, not everyone in this discussion thinks the same thing nor is there much consensus beyond the fact that a sizeable number of people report having a "loss of magic" regarding MDMA use. For instance, I am not among these people. I've found shit MDMA before but for the most part I've had access to amazeballs—or "magic" if you prefer the term—MDMA for decades now. But I also acknowledge that imposter shit exists on the various markets—IRL and darknet—and in some areas, particularly in the U.K., there seems to be a shortage of high-quality MDMA coinciding with a prevalence of "mehDMA" reports. The OP seemed to believe it should be ruled out though, FWIW.

Secondly, lots of these simple answer explanations have been given, some of them nearly identical to yours above. This answer is not very satisfying and I wouldn't expect it to provide any sudden enlightenment for someone. To be fair, just because an answer isn't satisfying doesn't mean it's incorrect, either. I suspect we will not find a satisfying answer to this as there are too many various factors that lead to uncertainty in drawing definite conclusions here.

I just don't know.

Same. And due to the clandestine nature of illegal drug manufacturing, I don't think we'll ever fully know and it will be left to conjecture.

 

[user666]

Firstly, not everyone in this discussion thinks the same thing nor is there much consensus beyond the fact that a sizeable number of people report having a "loss of magic" regarding MDMA use.

...and some MDMA-naïve users have not experienced the magic at all.
The word "loss" is misleading because it implies prior possession or prior experience.

 

[Phobos]

...and some MDMA-naïve users have not experienced the magic at all.
The word "loss" is misleading because it implies prior possession or prior experience.

Exactly this.
Surely, some lacklustre experiences have been caused by "loss of magic", but there is enough evidence to be basically sure that it is not the reason why people talk about MehDMA.
As user666 says, some people that never had any MDMA before failed to roll properly on MDMA, and people that thought they had lost the magic can reliably experience it again on a specific batch, just to loose it immediately when the new batch comes.

 

[unodelacosa]

...and some MDMA-naïve users have not experienced the magic at all.
The word "loss" is misleading because it implies prior possession or prior experience.

This is a good point, and I concede that “loss of magic” is not the right term. “Lack of magic” is what the science community uses, so… (I'm kidding, obviously)

Unless someone reports having had both experiences – Magic and Meh – then how do we know they know the difference? A person who thinks they've only had Magic may in fact have only had Meh but is too inexperienced to know this and sufficiently impressed with Meh they never know what they're missing. Or that person could have legit only had Magic and has not experienced the widely reported Meh. Any of this and the reverse setup of these examples are possible. How would we know? And let me point out that someone who gives an MDMA-naive user something considered Meh and then goes, "See? They had a shitty experience, too, and I didn't even tell them I gave them shitty MDMA!" ← This is not real evidence as it's subject to at least a couple biases, you know.

I need something like this: Measuring inhibition of monoamine reuptake transporters by new psychoactive substances (NPS) in real-time using a high-throughput, fluorescence-based assay I wish we could take an agreed sample of Meh and one of Magic, and then chart what each one does to DA, NE, and 5-HT (and DAT, NET, & SERT) in human volunteers, via double-blind study. Then maybe we could “be basically sure”

 

[Negi]

I'm pretty sure there's been at least three points in the thread where I have tried to pull out a solid description of what a "mehDMA" experience is supposed to be like and compared it to current first time experience reports (to avoid any risk of tolerance, either chemical or hedonistic). The effects new users describe generally fall much more on the "magic" side.

 

[Kaden_Nite]

If someone takes a drug and experiences effects outside of their own idealised expectations (especially after numerous experiences from multiple batches have proven those expectations to be improbable), it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume that they would eventually be enlightened enough as to expand on their rigid definition of what that drug is actually capable of doing to them.

That assumption though, like the thousands of other made here in the past, would be incorrect though. Some people would prefer to argue with their own reality than accept an undesirable truth.

 

[Rectify]

Nothing is wrong with my MDMA.
$5

 

[Negi]

But you can still drink from a glass which is half full of a different brand of Lucozade and it will probably still taste similar as well.

If that is how Lucozade came to be known and experienced, it would still be a rage.

If I remember the thread correctly, you've never experienced something you would consider to be "mehDMA" right? So you have limited utility here. However we can try this for the fourth time. For people who have had "mehDMA", would you consider any of the experiences with it to be the most happy and euphoric in your entire lives (excluding the feelings from "magic" MDMA and IV methamphetamine). Because that is the usual vibe from recent first timers. From the disappointed descriptions in the thread I wouldn't believe this to be the case.

And I still say it's inconceivable to me to imagine that this particular thread and enquiry could have built up any slight momentum at least until 2005 even if we were all plugged into the Internet but then which none of us were.

Pre-internet minus a dabble before mid 2005. It's no wonder I grow up so on educated barely paying attention in school and never do my homework on time lol.

You weren't on the internet, but alt.drugs.ecstasy was and you could absolutely find people on in 2000 it moaning about how MDMA wasn't like it used to be in the 1990s.