I mean I hope if your doing this, you would have a fake name who orders, a fake company name and a dead drop for liters or barrels... and are a criminal enterprise and would beable to funnel something besides "homemade candles"
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MDMA &
Empathogenic
Drugs
Welcome Guest! -
What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2
- Thread starter Le Junk
- Start date
dalpat077
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No need to apologize to me I assure you. And if anything: I was paying homage to your skills, knowledge, and experience in these matters!
Anyway. I continue to watch this thread with keen interest from, as noted previously, a purely pharmacological point of view.
I've my own thoughts on some of this. But have stayed out i.e. the intention here is clearly to prove, based on chemistry alone, the issue at hand. And anything I contribute will be purely anecdotal, drawing parallels based on other substances that I am familiar with, and would probably just be another one of those posts that do nothing more than to detract from the chemistry, and which would be defeating the object and wasting everybody's time and energy already expended.
AutoTripper
Bluelighter
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A few things I never will expect to see in my lifetime, but you never know- a What’s wrong with the Coffee/tobacco/whiskey/cocoa available today?
As example. Chemistry and science may never get to the root of this. I’m very open to the claim that magic MDMA is still in circulation, but to reject the notion of much of it being inferior or “Meh” feels so illogical.
And I actually had the thought last night @dalpat077 to say @unodelacosa - we are quite above apologies here, quite a mature bunch I would say, simply sharing thoughts, views, experiences in search for meaning and truth, the most elusive creature on planet earth.
Forums generally have a “Be nice” rule.
Only in China fortunately, most probably, is the “Agree” rule strictly, violently enforced lol.
As example. Chemistry and science may never get to the root of this. I’m very open to the claim that magic MDMA is still in circulation, but to reject the notion of much of it being inferior or “Meh” feels so illogical.
And I actually had the thought last night @dalpat077 to say @unodelacosa - we are quite above apologies here, quite a mature bunch I would say, simply sharing thoughts, views, experiences in search for meaning and truth, the most elusive creature on planet earth.
Forums generally have a “Be nice” rule.
Only in China fortunately, most probably, is the “Agree” rule strictly, violently enforced lol.
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I know what wacker does. You were confused what I ment or was trying to explain on the double bonded oxygen with mdp2p
"I don't know if you remember Osmium's posts regarding analysis of post-wacker ketone ? I believe he found that it was roughly 85% MD-P2P and 15% MD-P1P ...."
This is what I was saying. That using wacker and unskilled chemists. One would make a mix of methylone and MDMA and would/could cause issues we were talking about... at least with my known batch of safrole based meh. With MDP3P it would be 3-(3,4-Methylenedioxyphenyl)-propyl-methyl-amine.
"If the melting point of the crystals are somewhere around 35-40°C, they might be MDP1P from the oxidation of isosafrole formed in situ. I have also mentioned here several times that it should be next to unavoidable to perform a wacker oxidation on safrole without ending up with at least some "MDP3P" (the hydrocinnamaldehyde).
I definitely agree with you, this synthesis desperately needs an analytical investigation as it is so widely used."
Benzo Wacker impurities quantification |
https://chemistry.mdma.ch/hiveboard/methods/000492350.html
read old posts I saw
Ate 1 gram of that "mystery powder" that has come out ~6% of reactions. Did nothing. I supposed this was the aldehyde. The only difference between taste of it and the real deal is that it produces a cooling sensation when put on the tongue. Absolute useless stuff.
Sounds EXACTLY like what happened to someone I know. Read post #
Post 433342 (missing)
(runne: "Bioassay Failure? What did SWIM produce?", Newbee Forum) .
SWIM was VERY excited when the entire beaker just FLOODED into crystals
Oh well, hasn't happened again so SWIM expects that it was something that came over from the Al/Hg (probably not good for human consumption!) Since SWIM also used MgSO4 as a DRYING AGENT for GASSING.. could there be a connection? Does MgSO4 react with HCl gas in any way?
Wacker impurity ending up in final product?
Wacker impurity ending up in final product?
www.thevespiary.org
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unodelacosa
Bluelighter
I'm not personally doing jackshit, but I didn't want someone on this forum to read your words and think it's a slick idea to go ordering sassafras oil and/or safrole in the open. The way you worded it made it seem like sassafras oil isn't even watched… Don't worry, I own a copy of Total Synthesis II and am versed in its ways.
Yes, I do actually, but this was in reference to the O₂ Wacker oxidation, not the p-benzoquinone Wacker Oxidation that was preferred as it didn't require so much expensive palladium dichloride. Moreover, these contaminants are easily removed. Rhodium even says on that same Hive link:
“A mild oxidation of the reaction mixture, using something like MnO₂ [manganese (IV) oxide], K₂CrO₃, [potassium chromate] or similar […] will not affect the MDP2P but will oxidize the aldehyde to MD-Phenylpropionic acid, which in turn can be easily removed by a simple bicarbonate wash.” (bold mine).
Also, one can form the ketone into crystals using sodium metabisulfite & then recrystallize them for added purity – a method pointed out by Eleusis back in those Hive days… (Your Osmium reference hit me with all the nostalgia feels.) Vacuum distillation probably wouldn't help remove MDP-3-P as its boiling point is too close to that of MDP-2-P, but I feel it's still a worthwhile effort to vacuum-distill both the ketone and the product, especially if one is using something toxic like mercuric chloride. Here's Rhodium again, same post, confirming my point above regarding para-benzoquinone:“There is one thing which is good news though - the 85:15 ratio stated before is for the O₂ Wacker, while most people here make use of the BenzoQuinone Wacker. I have references on my page for BQ Wackers which are very ketone-selective.”
Vigilant and thorough purification is paramount to synthesizing clean, potent MDMA. Obviously it's possible to clean-up blackmarket MDMA if one is so inclined, but doing that properly could involve two or three acid/base extractions, solution rinsing with brine and/or sodium carbonate, a fractional vacuum-distillation, possibly some lithographic chromatography (depends on suspected impurities, I guess), anhydrous HCl gassing, acetone rinsing, and recrystallizing from IPA and more acetone. At that point though, one might find it more practical, economical, and/or desirable to go the whole way and produce their own MDMA from scratch after securing the precursors, equipment, and space needed were it not for the illegality of the endeavor. Hopefully this will change one day.Firstly, how and why have you concluded “much” of the MDMA in circulation is subpar? I get that there are anecdotes and personal experiences – I've had shit MDMA before, too— but that's not good logic to extrapolate that into broad-sweeping claims about the world's circulating MDMA. You need data to back up this claim or else it's merely a speculative hunch. As you pointed out: science may never get to the root of this. But if so, it's probably due more to the escondido nature of clandestine chemists and their attempts to avoid detection.
Secondly, I'm not outright rejecting the notion; just pointing out none of us have the data to back up a declarative statement like “much of [today's blackmarket ‘MDMA’] is “inferior or ‘Meh’”. I've already opined that some of it indeed seems inferior. But I'm not willing to jump to an early conclusion before more research is done; that's all. From my perspective, drawing early conclusions like this is “illogical”.
And for the record, I'm open to the idea I'm wrong and most of the world's MDMA is produced using the exact same method producing the same impurities, either due to lack of diversity, lack of competition in the marketplace, lack of chemical availabilities, or any combination of these factors and others listed earlier in this thread. I mean, what the fuck do I know? I'm not being sarcastic there either; I've definitely been hella wrong about things in the past, so you know, maybe I'm outta my depth here.
We? I mean, I'm also “here”, and I don't think I'll ever be above apologizing, though I do strive for maturity, occasionally failing. I appreciate what you're saying, but there's nothing wrong with a humble apology when one suspects they've inadvertently offended someone they wish not to offend. What's more, it was a reciprocal thing, e.g.: “sorry if I was defensive” / “that's ok; sorry if I was overly critical”. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Seemed like the right thing to do at the time, particularly as the sentiment was indeed heartfelt. Perhaps I overvalue civility and manners… Either way it's been fun thinking about this critically with everyone and I hope, though new, my contributions to this site's forums are welcome and of value to others. Here's to more stimulating discussions, passionate debates, and drug-fueled biochemical diatribes:
*tink*Deleted member 521610
Bluelighter
we have alot more magic mdma back. The importers also put it through 5 times acetone wash to get very nice looking stuff. can also confirm bk-mdma is way fucking better than meh shit as long as its good bk though. BK-mdma is acutally strong fucking speedy wired buzz but lacking alot of love.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Thank you.
Well, that's not going to remove any other amine-bearing impurities such as MDDMA and MDTMA. It will just clean them up along with the MDMA without actually removing them. However, this might not matter if these contaminants aren't present to begin with. As we've seen on this thread, there are a lot of potential side product impurities that can be introduced by an amateur chemist. Ultimately, the proof is in the proverbial pudding; or i.e.: a sample of MDMA either dazzles you or it doesn't; that's the true test for each individual user of a drug, ultimately, right?
Yeah I mean βk-MDMA isn't total garbage to me, but it's an entirely different drug and not a great substitute for MDMA's serotonergic love, stimulant anxiolysis, and profound empathy. In terms of binding affinities, βk-MDMA (aka Methylone, M1, beta-ketone-MDMA, 3,4-methylenedioxy-N-methylcathinone, MDMC) acts as both a triple releasing agent and a triple reuptake inhibitor, affecting serotonin (5-HT), dopamine, and norepinephrine. However, compared to MDMA, βk-MDMA is 3x less serotonergic and has 13x less affinity for the vesicular monoamine transporter 2 (VMAT2), but has similar dopaminergic and noradrenergic profiles.
This accounts for the “strong fucking speedy wired buzz” that you described as “lacking alot of love.” MDMA has unique, inimitable serotonergic effects. Its beta-ketone homologue feels like more of a reuptake inhibitor buzz than a serotonergic empathogen, true to cathinone form. Even if it bears some resemblance to the MDMA high in certain ways, be sure to check your expectations a bit before you drop βk-MDMA/Methylone expecting to roll your tits off…
EDIT: Tangentially relevant → Comparative neuropharmacology of three psychostimulant cathinone derivatives: butylone, mephedrone and methylone https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22509960/
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indigoaura
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I have been super busy with work and have not been able to keep up with the thread as much as usual, but I did want to clarify to @unodelacosa that I have not personally suspected MDEA contamination. I think what you are recalling is that MDDMA is associated with MDEA and there can be some confusion between the two via testing. However, I have not personally suspected MDEA as the source of the meh phenomenon.
unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Oh I didn't mean to suggest that you suspect MDEA. I think it's clear you and several others – and potentially myself pending more data confirmation – suspect MDDMA and MDTMA contamination. Oh but correct – I was referring to the fact that it doesn't appear IEC can easily distinguish MDEA from MDDMA as they lack the certified analytical standard still, and the two compounds are too similar, having the same atomic weight and empirical formula.
My point is that this is a let down, to say the least, underscoring the futility and downright harmful stupidity of global drug prohibition. I'm guessing that analytical standard could cost somewhere around $10k when it's all said and done, but that's maybe on the high side… you'd probably have to get several quotes and shop around, maybe get the right engineer onboard for a low quote…
AutoTripper
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You are calling for objectivity and scientific verification and explanation. Which is perfectly reasonable of course. I’m being very prehistoric and simplistic about this all, I’ll admit.I'm not personally doing jackshit, but I didn't want someone on this forum to read your words and think it's a slick idea to go ordering sassafras oil and/or safrole in the open. The way you worded it made it seem like sassafras oil isn't even watched… Don't worry, I own a copy of Total Synthesis II and am versed in its ways.
Yes, I do actually, but this was in reference to the O₂ Wacker oxidation, not the p-benzoquinone Wacker Oxidation that was preferred as it didn't require so much expensive palladium dichloride. Moreover, these contaminants are easily removed. Rhodium even says on that same Hive link:
“A mild oxidation of the reaction mixture, using something like MnO₂ [manganese (IV) oxide], K₂CrO₃, [potassium chromate] or similar […] will not affect the MDP2P but will oxidize the aldehyde to MD-Phenylpropionic acid, which in turn can be easily removed by a simple bicarbonate wash.” (bold mine).Also, one can form the ketone into crystals using sodium metabisulfite & then recrystallize them for added purity – a method pointed out by Eleusis back in those Hive days… (Your Osmium reference hit me with all the nostalgia feels.) Vacuum distillation probably wouldn't help remove MDP-3-P as its boiling point is too close to that of MDP-2-P, but I feel it's still a worthwhile effort to vacuum-distill both the ketone and the product, especially if one is using something toxic like mercuric chloride. Here's Rhodium again, same post, confirming my point above regarding para-benzoquinone:
“There is one thing which is good news though - the 85:15 ratio stated before is for the O₂ Wacker, while most people here make use of the BenzoQuinone Wacker. I have references on my page for BQ Wackers which are very ketone-selective.”Vigilant and thorough purification is paramount to synthesizing clean, potent MDMA. Obviously it's possible to clean-up blackmarket MDMA if one is so inclined, but doing that properly could involve two or three acid/base extractions, solution rinsing with brine and/or sodium carbonate, a fractional vacuum-distillation, possibly some lithographic chromatography (depends on suspected impurities, I guess), anhydrous HCl gassing, acetone rinsing, and recrystallizing from IPA and more acetone. At that point though, one might find it more practical, economical, and/or desirable to go the whole way and produce their own MDMA from scratch after securing the precursors, equipment, and space needed were it not for the illegality of the endeavor. Hopefully this will change one day.
Firstly, how and why have you concluded “much” of the MDMA in circulation is subpar? I get that there are anecdotes and personal experiences – I've had shit MDMA before, too— but that's not good logic to extrapolate that into broad-sweeping claims about the world's circulating MDMA. You need data to back up this claim or else it's merely a speculative hunch. As you pointed out: science may never get to the root of this. But if so, it's probably due more to the escondido nature of clandestine chemists and their attempts to avoid detection.
Secondly, I'm not outright rejecting the notion; just pointing out none of us have the data to back up a declarative statement like “much of [today's blackmarket ‘MDMA’] is “inferior or ‘Meh’”. I've already opined that some of it indeed seems inferior. But I'm not willing to jump to an early conclusion before more research is done; that's all. From my perspective, drawing early conclusions like this is “illogical”.
And for the record, I'm open to the idea I'm wrong and most of the world's MDMA is produced using the exact same method producing the same impurities, either due to lack of diversity, lack of competition in the marketplace, lack of chemical availabilities, or any combination of these factors and others listed earlier in this thread. I mean, what the fuck do I know? I'm not being sarcastic there either; I've definitely been hella wrong about things in the past, so you know, maybe I'm outta my depth here.
We? I mean, I'm also “here”, and I don't think I'll ever be above apologizing, though I do strive for maturity, occasionally failing. I appreciate what you're saying, but there's nothing wrong with a humble apology when one suspects they've inadvertently offended someone they wish not to offend. What's more, it was a reciprocal thing, e.g.: “sorry if I was defensive” / “that's ok; sorry if I was overly critical”. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Seemed like the right thing to do at the time, particularly as the sentiment was indeed heartfelt. Perhaps I overvalue civility and manners… Either way it's been fun thinking about this critically with everyone and I hope, though new, my contributions to this site's forums are welcome and of value to others. Here's to more stimulating discussions, passionate debates, and drug-fueled biochemical diatribes:
Because I just can’t consider, that if all or the vast majority of MDMA experienced nowadays was identical to the best I encountered, pretty consistently until 2005, that this thread would have ever been conceived and posted, let alone hundreds of pages.
That would be such a waste of thought, time and consciousness.
I’m very literal, but often speak figuratively, as with my above apologies comment.
Of course nobody is above apology, that would be aloof. But apology requires recognition or belief in genuine wrongdoing, and feeling and expression of remorse and repentance.
We do habitually apologise like a social norm. I used to. But for a very longtime, I only apologise where it’s actually genuinely warranted, not just a whip out figure of speech such as the simple word Sorry is for many people.
I rarely go out. Last week I visited the supermarket on a big acid dose. It felt very bizarre to me, how everybody, or rather predominantly middle aged female shoppers, were constantly apologising to me because, it seemed, we had come within hearing distance of each other.
These ladies were saying sorry for entering my space, like within 10 feet, when I was equally at fault for being there to be in their space.
I couldn’t understand why they felt they needed to apologise to me.
As I stood at the fresh fish counter, static, calm, and they creeped around me and everybody else in shame and embarrassment, and spoke to no particular person, but in normal audible tone “there’s no need to apologise for anything. We’re only human beings.”
So I wasn’t being totally literal on that. I just avoid using sorry in any context where it’s like a mannerism or figure of speech, but I will use the concept in places where meaning is correctly portrayed, like how we can say Sorry, use that word, to make a point, without sentiment or need for any actual apology or wrongdoing.
But I avoid it mostly, it can be disempowering for a start.
I’ll say sorry when I feel I’ve done wrong and feel no shame in it. (Apologising, nobody is immune to shame obviously).
@unodelacosa I’m not challenging you here on any points, or anybody else, or trying to project my own values and belief system.
Simply expressing. I’m a philosopher at heart.
Negi
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I already mentioned this a little while ago, but I'll bring it up again. The majority of the posts in these threads come from a small core of posters. As an example, I jumped back to page 100 of the old thread. Over 50% of the posts on that page were from users who have also had at least one post on this page of the new thread.
AutoTripper
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That’s a valid point. But these reports ate not limited, confined to Bluelight or this thread. This has just become the spearhead with the most traction.
I am guessing but I’m sure I’ve heard at least 100 different people report very lacklustre MDMA experiences. I’ve discussed this with people all over the web, and it rings bells everywhere.
Observer01
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Stepped away from this thread about 6 months ago. Wanted to take a break and see if any progress was made during that time.
This conversation has become borderline unreadable. Endless and semi meaningless rants that take this convo nowhere.
I wish you all the best, and I hope when I return in another 6 months there is some forward progress. But It may be time for some of you to re-focus your efforts elsewhere
This conversation has become borderline unreadable. Endless and semi meaningless rants that take this convo nowhere.
I wish you all the best, and I hope when I return in another 6 months there is some forward progress. But It may be time for some of you to re-focus your efforts elsewhere
Negi
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100 people is a tiny sample of the MDMA using population. I'm sure a few people pop up when you mention it in a well trafficked location, but there absolutely isn't the sort of response or discussion that would emerge if this was a truly widespread phenomenon affecting the even a significant minority of people who take MDMA.
If you want I can dig up all my posts from the old thread discussing the lack of mehDMA symptoms in new experience reports, therapeutic reports and even DNM reviews. Then we can all spend 10-15 pages re-litigating what exactly mehDMA feels like, if it can be an euphoric life changing experience, if kids these days would even notice ~real~ euphoria and empathy if it smacked them in the face and if everyone who posts on Reddit is a perfidious liar focused entirely on deception.
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unodelacosa
Bluelighter
Sorry – this was a long post that got WAY off topic. I removed it, because I realized I’m likely being rude to most Bluelighters through this sort of rambling. Apologies. @AutoTripper responded initially, so it can all still be read below by anyone who actually wanted to read all that psychobabble dabble, lol. Give me a forum and I can talk the ears off a jackrabbit. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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AutoTripper
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Yes, objectivity is something to strive for, and not to get all existential/solipsistic here, but it’s maybe not possible to achieve true objectivity, and we can’t prove objective reality exists at all (though IMHO it’s highly likely objective reality does, in fact, exist. I get the feeling sometimes that reality is much more bizarre than we’re even capable of understanding or imagining. Perhaps we will never catch a real “glimpse” of it, or maybe psychotropic drugs are those glimpses. I don’t know. Regardless, yes, I encourage skepticism and the scientific method.
I’m just trying to be logical and work against my default mode of cynicism and bellyaching; stick to science. And anyway, it’s natural to want to draw conclusions that first make sense to us. It’s tempting to jump the gun, but I’m reminded now of two quotes. The first is from Bertrand Russell in his essay, “The Triumph of Stupidity” in which he says: “The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt.”
The second quote is Socrates’ famous, “I know I am intelligent, because I know that I know nothing.”
Certainly not with that attitude
No one is making claims about “the vast majority of MDMA” on the markets, and IMHO unless someone has done a real deep-dive, collected sufficient data, and can prove this and back up their claims, then it’s just all wild speculation. I don’t have the stats in front of me either, ya know? So I’m not saying anyone is flatout wrong, but the leaps in logic to discount non-conforming explanations just aren’t reasonable.
My guess is most here agree – pure MDMA is stellar, even “magical”, if you prefer that term. And we also agree – impure MDMA exists on the market, has at least the potential to affect the quality of the high, and many users confirm its existence anecdotally as well as the continued existence of pure, primo MDMA. However, this hunch has yet to be confirmed. It’s hard to rule out all other causes and identify the impurities that contribute to a noticeable and profound drop in qualitative effects.
Not hardly. Careful not to close off your mind to the possibility that drug sources and their relative purities and availabilities might vary more than you think across the globe. Other drug scenes have different access to various, often quite different blackmarket products. It’s surprising to me that you haven’t had good MDMA in 16 years; though I recognize that your story is not unique, and the sentiment that it’s hard to find really good MDMA does exist on some level and in some people’s minds, though obviously it isn’t a 100% universally shared belief either... I do feel strongly though that you will find pure, bangin’ MDMA again soon.
That was confusing as hell, haha. Well then, I’m rarely figurative but seldom speak literally (whatever that means), as with none of my statements before, now, or ever. That’s a statement. Only truth makes lies and only lies tell the true truth.Er, uhm, also… Those who say don’t know. Those who know don’t say. Probably good advice if you have shit for brains.
Or would that be “a roof” since nobody is “above it”? ( ☜ d’ya see what I did there? eh?). Lol. No, but I think of aloofness as a kind of cold shoulder; whereas a failure to apologize—er, I mean apologise if we’re speaking The Queen’s English—shows a certain lack of humility, poor ethics, entitlement, snumgness, and a less developed sense of social grace and maturity. I guess there is a certain apathy in both smug entitlement and remaining aloof.
That’s not entirely true. There are different forms of apology, some of them are very heartfelt, and others are rendered begrudgingly yet given all the same. There are apologies rendered solely to keep the peace amid some multi-party group.
Then there’s the “corporate apology” – you know: when some customer service tele-rep unnecessarily uses the word “do” in their canned apology for the company. They’ll say: “Well sir, we do apologize for the inconvenience”. Sometimes it’s to keep things on an even keel, as it were.
Other times when I say sorry, I’m not actually offering apology but rather sympathy. Someone might say, “yeah so I lost my job last year due to COVID-19” and I might reply, “Oh I’m sorry” and then they’ll go, “Eh, it’s not your fault!” and I’ll tell them, “No I was offering sympathy, not apology.”
Yes, it is both habitual and normative behavior in modern society. I agree.
It can be good to remain humble, but of course there’s a line.
I’m just giving you shit, btw; I get what you’re saying and it is annoying when someone over-apologizes for too much shit to the point of coming across as having no spine. Like most things in life, striking balance here seems critical. Personally I try to adhere to the rule of: never apologize for something more than once. One good apology should do it. Either the person will accept the apology, or I move on… or else it’s just not that serious (99% of the time; this is the case, and you’re right: some people say “sorry” too much, but the British love “brilliant” and Americans love “like”. Seems like hispanohablantes love the conjunction, “pero”…)
You should try it more often; it gets easier with practice, even on psychedelics, eventually. But maybe mix in some benzos/anxiolytics to help facilitate easier social interactions? Just my proverbial $0.02
Not my idea of a good time whilst tripping. Did you drop acid and then get dragged to the supermarket by someone, or the idea to endeavor out shopping on acid was yours?
Hahaha, yeah I guess so. Gee, I wonder why? Surrounding myself with middle-aged women in the middle of the domestic, capitalist mecca that is a supermarket during an intense acid trip while most everyone else around is stone-cold sober and on a completely different wavelength and would be disturbed to hear someone talk about being under the influence of LSD just then… sounds like the perfect set & setting for tripping, lol (but I’m a hypocrite as I do this kinda shit all the time, finding myself deep into some trek in a city I’ve never been to on public transit with some stranger trying to make small talk with me for some reason, but in my head all I can do is question if I really needed to swallow those two tabs of acid an hour and a half prior, because visual meltdown becomes imminent, and anyway, again: set & setting)
In crowded spaces, people tend to find different ways to “make space”, I think… I find this true especially in densely populated cities and crowded market places.
I mean there are worse things in the world, and we’re all sorta just starting to come out of this global pandemic…
Do you think the pressure for people to still practice social distancing might’ve had anything to do with that?
Yeah but a statement like that is equally as trite and turn-of-phrase-esque in my opinion. What’s more, “we’re only human beings” is itself a form of apology, particularly with the inclusion of the qualifier, “only” if you think about it.
Kinda being really tight with your definition of an apology and when the appropriate time is to say “sorry”. I will concede: being reserved in saying it definitely gives the word more gravitas when you use it less frequently…
Okay how about this one: when someone texts you and accidentally has a typo, like using the wrong form of “there/their” and then without waiting for a reply they immediately send a follow up text with the asterisk and the correct form of there/their, like: “ * their” ← does someone correcting a minor typo with another, new text message bother you, or is this understandable, OR is it something you yourself would do?
Again, let’s not forget about the use case wherein you offer someone empathy, like:
“Sorry to hear about your mom passing, Jim,”or
“I’m sorry, sir; we’re all out of nor-pseudoephedrine; would you like some phenylpropanolamine instead?
Well certainly this is true to anyone who thinks that, isn’t it? Au contraire, I find that an apology and an admission of being wrong in an argument can be wonderfully disarming. If an actual admission of defeat, it takes the wind out of any would-be gloating victor’s sails, but more often, for me at least, it’s lead to friendship or an interested phone number & potential future rendezvous with someone who happens to be attractive when they argue… But if the apology and admission of potentially being wrong about something is given as a ruse, it can be very effective at getting people to make a similar concession and admit that perhaps they’re wrong and this opens up discussions and new angles on a debate.
The shame is not in the apology. That‘s often the mature thing to do. The shame, if any, lies in that for which the apology is offered.
You’re welcome to, though. Opinions are fine. It’s the projectile fake facts ya gotta watch out for.
Express on, you auto-tripping star, you.
I’m an artist at heart.
Hi, hoping you are well. I collected numerous quoted points but BL refuses to let me quote them so....
First, thanks for your open thinking and forwardness. I will try and “allay” a few points, I like that term, so non challenging both ways, non final.
Would have been much easier if I’d been able to insert quotes.
So in a new, random order- first, I don’t avoid going out due to social anxiety or agrophobia.
I have zero social anxiety, fear of other people or public spaces. I rarely go out due to being debilitated with chronic fatigue and the severest allergies from 16 years of full blown Lyme Disease. I’m literally just surviving physically, really on the fringes of life.
I suffer rather than live, but I try my best to make good and recover, all I’m able to do is just about stay afloat currently, but that could change in time, hence my fight.
On the benzos- no encouragement needed I’ve an insane benzo habit, eqiv to over 150 mg’s Diazepam daily, like- a lot! Needs addressing but will be tricky in my condition and current life situation.
(Just looking at my quotes)...”Not hardly.” That’s incorrect English surely? A double negative?
But yes, geographic situation can make massive difference to drug purity and quality.
Now, I’ll admit, I’m in no position to even chime in on this.
I have not taken MDMA for 16 years. I have 2 220 mg Dutch Bowsers but I’m dead sure I will be severely allergic to the MDMA, plus fillers.
It would only be a very bad time physically, possibly fatal, and also I don’t want to weaken my cognition, speech fluency, word recall, perfectly adequate and easy flowing social skills. I would expect to notice a cognitive decline from a single MDMA use.
I did take over 3000 MDMA pills 1996 to 2005, plus lots pure MDMA powder and Crystal from it really hitting the scene in early 2000’s when quality was very high.
If I took my Bowsers I reckon I could tell instantly if it was the real deal or not the same. I never lost any magic. I had shit pills, mostly good, many times amazing.
It does vary, always has IME, but still it astounds me this discussion even exists.
I can recall at least 100 different presses which no way could any sound minded person without a mega tolerance deny to be legit, true, magic, scintillating MDMA.
So yes, I will offer an apology where rightly warranted, no hesitation. No embarrassment rather than shame. Shame is connected to the guilt of our actions.
I will say, it’s possible to apologise fully, adequately and perfectly sincerely, leaving nothing out, from the heart, without even using the word Sorry at all.
Just speaking true feeling, emotion, awareness etc. Using words imaginatively.
I’ve no problem using sorry. I just avoid it as a cliche.
I was gonna say lots more on your points on this but not being able to quote messed up my trail of thought. We could debate it for hours too I suspect.
Just trying to pick up the line now- supermarket! I wasn’t compelled. I was at home. 1.5 hours into a 300 ug redose, 600 total. Major physical discomfort from illness and allergies, too tired to be awake, too uncomfortable to sleep, needed a break from house.
I’ve no difficulty being in a superstore tripping. The chiropractors on 400 ug recently I didn’t enjoy, as I needed to be functional and communicative a a very exact time.
I felt zero social anxiety walking to Superstore and home. Any person could say anything to me, enter my space, question me etc, I have excellent self control and self confidence and fluent, creative verbal skills.
Also, my vibrational field is so high at times, it’s like you are on a different floor, invisible or unreachable in ways.
I have much bigger problems to deal with daily, physical suffering and pain, than anything likely to happen in public.
I never mentioned I was on LSD in the store. Yes social distancing is the only real meritable explanation for the ladies apologising. It was just entirely unnecessary, disproportionate, and so unconsciously habitual.
When I say I didn’t get their need to apologise, it’s more like they didn’t seem to understand why they even felt the need to do so.
“We’re only humans”...I said, as an excuse, rather than an apology. A valid excuse, can mitigate the need for apology.
But none of them did anything slightly wrong to me. I was pretty static, always aware spatially of others, not just ambling around into other’s space. It was just silly, unnecessary and inappropriate, it stood out to me. Hence me speaking from heart.
Minor typos- I’m a devil for typos myself. Don’t fret it. Mostly I’m good with the use of language. I am passionate about the correct use of language, as per meaning and conjugation, and having an accurate grasp on words and phrases exact meaning.
I might do that myself, not in a text, but in an online post, point out a typo or auto correct. But I never retext over such trivial things, and all that matters is the correct meaning is portrayed.
It wouldn’t bother me at all. Little mistakes are inconsequential. A complete lack of consciousness, awareness, mental faculties, does gripe me at times though
I will admit. That’s on me- “my bad” as the Americans have long said, not really ever caught on in England but a few have tried to adopt it as part of their itinerary.
I just haven’t found a place for it, I could use it, but it’s like the wrong currency here.
On the tripping and shopping- I’m a mega acid freak. I took exactly 17 mg’s between end January and May recently. I can only use 5 psychoactive substances I know of, due to severe allergies- no prescription meds at all, no vitamin pills, capsules, with a small few exceptions.
I need to avoid a good 99% plus of everything ingestible in this world or suffer intolerable respirator symptoms. That’s honestly no exaggeration.
I can manage black tea and coffee, but not without some respiratory symptoms.
I can only use homegrown cannabis, as I’m so allergic to all black market weed fertilisers, even organic ones. It took us years to find an organic compost mix I can tolerate that was sufficient for the plants.
But I still have a respiratory allergy to pure cannabis vaporization. Edibles are pretty okay but I get a lot higher from vaping.
LSD is the only real drug. I know of I can tolerate allergenically since Lyme. I tried others, bad bad time each time, stomach pain, can’t breathe, at any dose.
My options are abnormally limited.
Hence my addiction to Etizolam. Of my 5 tolerable drugs here, it’s the only one that causes no allergenic respiratory symptoms, and can be taken at any time.
The rest, I must pick and choose times after extensive and arduous allergy management and excessive mucus clearance on a daily basis. It’s like emptying the leaking boat all day, every day, to stay afloat.
Etizolam adds no more water to the boat, hence it becoming a crutch, but it’s very unhealthy an ill-advised of course.
Finally- Kava. But also causes lots respiratory mucus. But so helpful for anxiety, depression, physical pain, sleep etc.
I had other points in mind, better structured all round, but the non quoting messed it all up.
One thing- Socrates. I went to Swansea University in 1999. In 2000 I acquired the nickname Socrates, it caught like wildfire. I never encouraged or enticed it. It just became a thing and I was referred to as “Socrates, you’re a Legend” in Welsh accent, hundreds of people willingly called me that, no volition of my own in any direction.
Indeed, Socrates founded himself on the principle of knowing nothing ultimately. I was pretty unassuming and open minded in my youth.
Meanwhile, in my hometown in England, they all called me Jesus. Again, zero influence or volition on my part, identically to in Swansea, someone just said it one day, and it sparked ears all around, caught and spread like wildfire.
A young man named Marvin said to me one day...”Man, you really are Jesus aren’t you?”
Socrates arose because I visited a new house to score some hash, somehow made an impression without trying, afterwards they didn’t know my name and one guy called me Socrates, it escalated from there.
So I had literally hundreds of people in England calling and referring to me as Jesus, and as many in Swansea as Socrates, at the same time lol.
This MDMA Meh topic caught my attention in 2019 when I started tripping again after 6.5 years. I’ve just about had my fill now at (19 + 17....) 36 mg’s LSD since.
I thought I was hardcore. I’m humbled.
But like I say emphatically, true MDMA cannot be lacklustre for enough people to make such a raucous if it was easy enough for everybody to find, consistently enough.
I just find it incredibly hard to believe. I was forced to stop using MDMA and all else in 2005, but right then the Mickey Mouse seemingly counterfeit MDMA pills burst onto scene.
Nothing like I knew as good true MDMA, like a very different feel, a real masquerader.
I didn’t think about it until 2011 somebody told me MDMA had not been true MDMA in UK since 2005 due to production methods and precursors changing at that time.
No more thought until 2019 when the smoke really caught my attention.
There are members here I regard as being extensively experienced, knowledgeable, intelligent, reliable sounding boards, who are involved in this debate and have reported such dramatic variations of experience between batches.
Magic occasionally, but like a needle in a haystack. Other forums too. I just can’t ignore that. If they all had the OG doves, Mitsubishis, Smiley faces, more more more, I wouldn’t accept their accounts at all.
That shit just never failed to work for anybody I ever met without a massive tolerance, or myself, and I should have had a massive tolerance. I must be in the top few % for the overall amount of MDMA consumed.
I used to take it for up to 11 days straight. Me time, 54 strong, really trippy MDA pills, easily 120 mg’s, over 11 consecutive days, January 2002, I worked 7 full time shifts in Tesco’s superstore in those 11 days.
Nobody clocked a thing, who I did not want to clock it.
So walking round a shop on acid is really a comparative walk in the park lol.
I went to work out out out of my face on the best MDMA and skunk so many times, often direct from rave, tripping extremely from 500- 1000 mg’s and sting Skunk.
I never got caught. But long shifts like that, a test of nerves and endurance at times.
One time, after 4 Smiley Faces, some of the best pills ever, maybe 200 mg’s that first batch, I worked at Tesco’s next day no sleep.
Myself and a guy Shaun were outside working the trolleys (and inside baskets). We had to push a broken down car to get it going. We did, but man I nearly had a heart attack lol.
I was glad when that shift finished at 10.30 pm Saturday night. So many incredible hallucinogenic experiences I had before and while being at work
Crazy crazy past you see. Crazy present too. The middle was also pretty nuts. In one nutshell!
Edit- I spotted a few typos/autocorrects, one unintended full stop on a rare proofread, but Im satisfied you will have grasped my exact meaning, so like I say I don’t fret it at all.
I only make this comment here in relation to that.
I do frequently edit posts to correct typos/stupid A.I. Miscorrects but only to get meaning clear and not look a total dummy.
I have actually cleaned up my posting too, it was getting too messy for a while lol.
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AutoTripper
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2019
- Messages
- 10,196
Haha, glad I (snapshot Ed) you then, caught you on camera framed for all to see!
(Edit- I just noticed, only your now edited post appears in my quote so scrub that point...)
I left that sentence above as an example of how much the stupid goddamn Artificial intelligence wannabe autocorrect does my nuts in.
I correctly and intentionally typed “snapshotted”,which was too much of an imaginative stretch for its super (non) human (non) imagination.
So it panicked, dug out it’s little but growing pocket dictionary, and came up with the most obvious meaningful correction- Snapshot Ed!
Because it knows Ed. He’s everywhere. Good old guy, pretty straightforward. Not too smart but a heart of gold.
“Snapshotted??? Right, I’ll have to add that one to the database, and see if we can predict it in line with the algorithms of the human psyche.”
Well guess what, A.I. , it’s futile IMO, you will never have an imagination. Even if you succeed in serving your master’s agenda of enslaving mankind and delaying spiritual freedom, you will always be a step behind and simply never alive.
Right...sorry I have a huge gripe with A.I. (that was left as a natural use of the word sorry as we discussed, I do whip it out, as you see, I left it there, because it’s partly genuine apology for ranting, after I failed to predict what A.I. did just now.)
The cheeky bitch catches me out too often- I type the perfectly correct word I want, it has a hiatus and exchanges it without wasted me noticing.
It comes in handy for typing some longer words repeatedly, but it’s equally a PITA.
I think I keep it active because I want to stay in tune with the A.I. and keep making observation of it’s behaviour, and learning speed. I make interesting, real time, lifelike observations of even our primitive kitchen scales, as they randomly guess and fumble to compute if the change is one gram more, or one gram less.
It varies how long it takes them to decide it is now correctly...446 grams, from 445, and NOT actually 444.
But it can require some help, a breather, lift the load, reload.
I honestly can see it trying to think, guess, react, predict, calculate, gauge etc.
In such lsd fashioned primitive techinology too (I left two more examples right there, first I tried to type “old fashioned”, I missed a key, didn’t type “old” correctly.
Well stagger me, it knows me- it thought “hold on- ld? That doesn’t make sense. It
MUST be lsd! Lol. If it had been another iPad and a non tripper, we would likely not have seen ld replaced in a flash with lsd.
What goes around does come around.
Then, I mistyped terminology. I noticed. So did A.I. It underlined it in red, but could really have just corrected the bloody mispelling.
In every case there is an inherent lack of actual intelligence displayed to my eyes.
Intelligence is the wrong word too for me personally. By definition it may be fitting, to do with information essentially. Intel. But to me, intelligence is consciousness, awareness, thinking.
It so tries or aspires for some sort of consciousness. Which will never be, although of course the Elitist’s objective is to merge the entirety of humanity with A.I. In a Hive mind, all connected via 5G or whichever EMF tech is up to the task (7G, 8G?)
If, and when.
But I do actually hate A.I. So cold and evil, and with the Witt of less than a 2 yr old too.
So that is it’s hope. To latch onto our collective and individual consciousness’s and control and steer and dominate.
Extort. It hopes to share our consciousness, after mastering our algorithms (which it simply never will), predicting our psyche and imagination (which it never will).
So as you can see, there is no love to be lost between myself and brainpicking parasitic A.I.
I just had a little bicker with it then because rightly or wrongly I wanted to speed brainpicking as one word. It instantly adjusted it to “brain picking”.
I changed it back, because I like the term better conjoined.
Now next time I do that, it will know better.
That will be 50 cents please A.I. for today’s lesson in MY consciousness, thinking patterns and vocabulary.
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unodelacosa
Bluelighter
That was all wonderfully British of you, lol
I prefer to think of those things – spelling- and grammar-checking, autocorrecting, and the sort – to be akin to a somewhat aggressive code-linter or optimising compiler. Also, if I'm really trying to write something for reals, for reals? I much prefer to have a full-size physical keyboard. I would argue that, overall, spell-proofing & autocorrecting AI have probably actually helped educate the masses thanks to the mass proliferation of smart phones, broadband, blanketing of developed nations with cellular, etc., etc. … coupled with an artificial intelligence sophisticated enough to determine when my dumbass used the wrong form of "its", "their", and/or "you're".
Memorization is the lost art, my middle-school English teacher would tell us. She'd also have us memorize and recite in front of the class long passages sometimes. I really credit that woman for being onto something there and maybe that's why I memorize things accidentally when I don't even realize I'm doing it today as an adult. Right now being an exception.
Umm, so earlier maybe in in this very thread, I'd have to look, but I kinda talked some trash about 5-MAPB, and right now, coupled with some 4-AcO-EPT, I'm currently candy-flipping fucking hard AF. I actually started with 28 mg of 4-AcO-EPT and then two hours later I thought: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ fuck it, and I dropped ~90mg 5-MAPB. And hour later and I'm like: Whoa, what were we just talking about?
And yo, what is with my man, Skeletor over here? Dude is jacked like he's been stacking d-bol, decca, tren and HGH and can't stop doing P90X… Wasn't he supposed to be a sorcerer? Since when are sorcerers all jacked (and I'm not sure Dr. Strange counts)? I mean you don't think of Gandalf or Dumbledore as being these muscle-bound scholars much, do you? Oh wait, he was a demon and He-Man's uncle… not sure how all that aligns, but that's mythology for you.
EDIT: Oh but back to my point, once I figure out who these people are, I'd like to acknowledge their insight there ahead of mine. @TripSitterNZ I believe you may have been one of these people, or were you advocating for bk-MDMA? Wait yeah, that was it, but with someone I recently argued that 5-MAPB reminded me more of MDA and blahblahblah. I still think it's MDA-like in some ways and MDMA-like in others. Hard to describe without later reflection, I guess. Regardless, a very worthwhile substance, to be sure.
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specialrelativity
Bluelighter
Right on,unodelacosa.
marley is good
Ex-Bluelighter
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2018
- Messages
- 250
molly
