What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[Rectify]

vash445,

Have You Tried

PINK_COCAINE
1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane

Yet?

 

[vash445]

vash445,

Have You Tried

PINK_COCAINE
1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane

Yet?

?

Pink cocaine is tusi no?


The molecule you showed me above however

1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane looks like a meth/cathone precourser or p2p precourser to me XD

it describes a propane backbone with a phenyl, a carbomethoxy (\(\text{-COOCH}_{3}\)), and a methylamino (\(\text{-NHCH}_{3}\)) group, suggesting a complex chemical intermediate


^ while this is a Google AI RESPONSE

I'm not gonna lie. Without looking online just the chemical structure and name. it looked to me like a meth and or cathone precourser when I put the compound into Google that's what came up. Do you have the CAS# OR THE SMILES? TO CONFIRM?

But idk me glanced at the compound, I'm not familiar, and I'm familiar with the RC SCENE AND the BUZZ BUZZ oh what is this HONEY.... POT. .... around here.


In my quest for science

I have not encountered this compound in

Meth, MDMA , cocaine or any RC

And UVIC has tested my Xanax powder down to a 1-2% H20 impurities

Without the report in the database it's likely to get missed however or a pure laboratory sample from caymen or similar
There's no md copounds you know of. This doesn't appear in my area unless I'm really keeping an eye out sorta deal

Has it been confirmed by UVIC or getyourdrugstested as legitimate or that's what they claim it is

The only time I've encountered bunk or weird stuff not test as cathone analogs is near Florida and the east Coast not trying to out you but are you in a tri state area between

Florida and new York

If you can obtain a sample

And send it to

UVIC University of Victoria substance program in Canada

Or getyourdrugstested.com in Canada

They can confirm it is or isn't 1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane


UVIC at the very least can PS/MS test if it isn't in there catalog

UVIC is just an international postal stamp

Getyourdrugstested.com is a international stamp and $10 USD I believe

Each has their own pros and cons

But UVIC is a step up

Obviously

Keklyon is next level and at least we know the limits by in large so thank you

But as 3 point circle has been there and done that you need to clarify it's not monkey see monkey do

UVIC can be ok about breaking the normal mold

But they won't do it for everything just if it's something not in there database

I'm dizzy because tried as in bioassays sampled? Tried to make MDMA/MDA? Tried to make meth or pusedoeferfine? What do you mean have I tried 1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane

If you mean intentionally consume or synetheis of p2p or pusedoeferfine or 1 pot meth/amph... No

I'm more concerned with clandestine MDMA AND MDA routes

Both KNOWN and tight lip some even I created for fun on paper and academy

 

[vash445]

vash445,

Have You Tried

PINK_COCAINE
1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane

Yet?

vash445,

Have You Tried

PINK_COCAINE
1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane

Yet?

Can you tell me how you know for sure it is

1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane ?

Has it been to UVIC and PS/MS confirmed?

Has getyourdrugstested.com confirmed with FTIR a database on file?

Or is this something you heard from the east coast grapevine?

There's a lot of pink meth precoursers, pusedoeferfine pills, pink p2p etc etc

I don't know much but one of my close friends in the meth synetheis scene said avoid pink meth. It's filled with cancer caused components

Is he correct?

Idk meth or amph isn't my scene

Should you avoid pink or red MDMA just like purple MDMA?

Is purple MDMA really dyed?

With my connections in BULK BULK supplies I'm talking 1-10kg+ they have only encountered and showed me PURPLE dye MDMA. SO YES it can happen

But it just looks ? Off once you see it.

Can you upload a picture of this 1-phenyl-1-carbomethoxy-2-methylaminopropane?

Is it passed off as is? Or a cathone like BK MDMA?

IVE ONLY ENCOUNTERED SOMETHING WEIRD and extremely off on the east coast looking for BK MDMA after the ban

In the emerald triangle or "silver" triangle

Haven't encountered it.

If you got a picture of the 'pink cocaine ' that isn't tusi

Please upload here or send a PM

 

[vash445]

First, reductive amination (ahem) is a one-step reduction, so of course it's "one-pot." Maybe you're labelling it this as a demerit and carrying over association with shoddy fly-by-night clandestine operations and shortcuts, but that's a stereotype and I want to discourage it. Safrole vs. PMK is another place where people get the wrong impression. Anyone starting from safrole is still making PMK (read: MDP-2-P) before they ever touch MDMA. That's been standard chemistry for decades. Shulgin was using these routes in PIHKAL long before any of today's designer precursors showed up, and plenty of labs worldwide are still using older methods like Al/Hg amalgam with methylamine and MeOH. So I'm not sure the Australian reports represent the global picture well enough for us to draw big conclusions.

It just feels like you might be trying to make limited or local data fit the idea that there's a single main chemical culprit behind inconsistent effects people report from illicit "MDMA." And I'm not saying you're wrong, just that the pieces don't quite line up for me.

On the meth angle: sure, PMK → MDMA and BMK → MA using similar reductions is basic chemistry. But the jump to mystery side-product X and its 3,4-desmethylenedioxy analog simultaneously degrading both MDMA and meth worldwide is a pretty big leap.

As for the claim that "so much MDMA and MA out there is meh", that's a huge assumption on a global level. What dataset confirms that? From what I see, quality and availability vary regionally like they always have. There's definitely bunk stuff, impurities, and counterfeits floating around, but that's neither new nor uniform. Honestly, it's exactly why legalization and proper oversight would clean up the scene if implemented correctly.


That’s the classic logic trap, cum hoc ergo propter hoc, or "correlation does not imply causation." And anyway if there is evidence, great, but right now it doesn't look settled enough to declare it. Black-market production also isn't centralized enough for one methodological shift to ruin the global supply of two different drugs in parallel. That's not how these networks operate. Some labs adopt newer methods, others don't. Discovery of one trend in one region doesn't mean everyone else abandoned older routes.

The belief that "current methods" inherently skip purification steps also needs backing. Clandestine chemistry has variable quality control. That's not unique to 2025.

We can't prove much about clandestine processes with certainty; we can only make educated guesses. That's why I'm hesitant to treat any single explanation as the definitive answer. Regions differ wildly: people in the UK and Ireland complain a lot about weak MDMA; Germany's patchy but often solid; the Netherlands is still pumping out strong gear; and in the US, both meth and MDMA quality can be excellent depending on who you know. And these are just a handful of markets; many others exist worldwide.

I hope none of this comes across harsh. I get why your theory is appealing, and it's worth discussing. I just think some of the assumptions deserve another look before we pin the global situation on one manufacturing shift.

Have a great week. I genuinely appreciate the thoughtful debate.

The belief that "current methods" inherently skip purification steps also needs backing.

I can tell you something is missing... In my experience

Acetone and iso or ethanol wash pass, nothing gets pulled out.

Same with the EVEN more obscure ethyl ether or chloroform washes....

The steps Skipped I imagine are

Distilled freebase, distilled ketones (if applicable) column chromotography but probably not needed

And if steps are skipped recrystallization of final product

Only only wash solvent I haven't tried is ethyl acetate pretty much until I get suggested something else? Granted Form II can be reproducibly produced from a variety of alcoholic solvents, as well as in the presence of ethyl acetate. Which is interesting... I created magic with acetone. Everyone loves it. TAKE THAT with a pinch of salt

Also limited or local is semi far reaching

If one grabs MDMD FROM Canada, Holland and USA for no reason other than to see issues, I imagine NZ/kiwi or something similar at that point is very few and far between I'm talking there's only so much much left

And I follow it ALLLLLLLL... Like there are routes known and less known i don't want to talk about.


While there is always know I mentioned here

There's always someone who can get NMR confirmed safrole... In this day and age in USA.

Eitherway someone is going to reach MDMA either with safrole. Not impossible but probably near Brazil or south America batches though if one really looks it's around in USA without auction sites still , MDP2P ketones regulated and unregulated most of them have been mentioned here, but if course there's a few routes I've never mentioned for obvious reasons but without going into too much detail OXO components seem to be new/semi new and watched with MD/MA compounds and of course helional into MDP2P via "milk and honey " or similar path

Now can I prove this, all I can say is follow the dollar or busts

A REAL HEISENBERG realized this is all a map and compass but for every 1 Kellogg's or jelly belly

5-10 manufacturers white label in the Marijuana or the cereal industry

What I can tell everyone is I reached out to MAPS BOTH WITH AND WITHOUT my connections
The only thing I have considered and my conclusion so far is


I have a question for you guys at MAPS? MAPS has made AND TESTED with documentation as far as I know... GMP MDMA via gringrard... A short study and route via Piperonal and the original route with Nicholas from Purdue..

My question to MAPS have your study encounter any meh or subpar MDMA with Piperonal route to MDMA or GMP MDMA via gringrard


MAPS

NO WE HAVE NOT ENCOUNTERED any subpar MDMA with any of our batches but our MDMA is much much more pure then what tends to go around




My question was before I volunteered for MAPS. but around when I joined or after I joined here. Probably before the NMR results

That's all I have for now sorry

Also

one-pot is ahem cough cough if words at best

I mean a true one pot means I assume ketone wasn't distilled, if it wasn't distilled was meta bisulfite used?

If it wasn't used how was amine carried out?


I mean argue with me hydrogen is hydrogen

but how was it done? Borohydride? Cyano boro hydride? Hell if anything it's my guess is STAB?

Out of those 2 it's cold brohydride because Cyanoboro hydride you need to babysit the flask for a schiff base reaction and add lye or HCL as needed

By in large I imagine it's either

Palladium on Carbon, Adams catalyst or something or other as long as hydrogen gas is being either FED inline or created



Yes Anyone starting from safrole is still making PMK (read: MDP-2-P) before they ever touch MDMA. That's been standard chemistry for decades. Unless they found a 1 pot with amino mercury as outlined in TS2/1

I imagine reductive animation if you go really crazy would be using a catalytic converter?

mean I always figured waste automotive converter catalysts was also a possibility ie

Efficient Ru-based scrap waste automotive converter catalysts for the continuous-flow selective hydrogenation of cinnamaldehyde

There will always be a difference Synthesis and telescope/ flow chemistry.

My friend works on hash oil industry... So far he is only person that understands the difference between chemistry... And chemical engineering..
And @#$k he's the only one I know that understanding "chemistry" is probably the easiest part

It's understanding the flow or engineering and or everything else is the hardest part

And I'm not even talking about MDMA

I'm talking about hash/oils in this context they go damn.... damn... you know the difference between a chemical engineering and chemistry...but the position is the same people don't know shit even in Holland

But the goal reguardless is the same

Same unregulated PRECOURSER/ketones into amine/amidesl cathone etc

Regular the BUZZING is the same

D-LAME into LAA NOD NOD a base or acid hydrosols is simple. Maybe maybe not

Very few understand that this MDMA is really

Structurally, MDMA can be viewed as a ring fused catecholamine (based on 3,4, dihydroxyphenethylamine), the base of dopamine, norepinephrine, and adrenaline; these neurotransmitters are collectively called catecholamines. Tying the two hydroxyl groups together with a methylene bridge produces the 1,3-dioxole ring. Methylation of the sidechain in alpha position and methylation of the amine nitrogen derive the structure of MDMA from the structure of the canonical catecholamine, dopamine. While it is possible to produce MDMA from catechol or dopamine5, this example illustrates the structural similarity observed by Oberlin rather than a practical route for synthesis.


The in and out of polymorphs of an HIV drug
The Curious Case of the Disappearing Polymorph

 

[vash445]

so much MDMA and MA out there is meh",

Full agreement here.


No, I'm sorry, I have to call this out. The notion somehow that "natural" is better than "man-made" is bullshit. First, it assumes that somehow mankind is unnatural. As if we aren't a natural part of this planet who evolved here. Also, some people claim that mushrooms are better than acid because shrooms are "natural" while LSD is synthetic. But consider: humans have been genetically modifying shrooms through selective reproduction for decades, gatekeeping reproduction for species with higher alkaloid levels. A psychedelic mushroom like P. cubensis "Penis Envy" doesn't have large enough caps or produce enough spores to compete and survive in the wild on its own. And consider how LSD is manufactured from ergot, the fungus that grows on rye.

I used to manufacture MDMA ~25 yrs ago from sassafras oil. The first step is isolating the safrole from the sassafras oil via vacuum distillation. At that point, there's no difference between synthetic safrole and naturally derived safrole. Its chemical name is 3,4-methylenedioxyallylbenzene. There is no entourage effect like we see in cannabis. The safrole is purified. Also, nature produces poisons let's not forget. There are some deadly poisonous fungi out there for example, or white oleander will kill the shit out of someone. You've got poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac. I could go on. And on the flip, do you have any idea how valuable and important the fully manmade anesthetic, Ketamine, is to the medical world? It doesn't compromise respiration while a person can be fully anesthetized. Prior to its discovery full anesthesia required a person to be on a respirator. That's why it's listed as an essential medicine by the World Health Organization.

The WHO also recognizes fentanyl as an essential medicine. Why? Because it's so potent and cheap to manufacture. Without it, there are scores of underdeveloped nations whose hospitals could not otherwise afford opioid analgesics. It provides real pain relief to countless people worldwide. That's what it's for. Comparing oxycontin to fentanyl for their recreational "warmth" is a subjective opinion and a moot point bc that's not what they're for, not what they're designed to do. And the notion that one is better than the other because it is a semi-synthetic morphine derivative is, frankly, nonsense. Want some more examples of fully synthetic medicines that have immense value?

Well for antibiotics there are Levofloxacin and Ciprofloxacin: broad-spectrum antibiotics used to treat a wide-range of bacterial infections. There's the antiviral drugs, Oseltamivir (Tamiflu), and Acyclovir which is used to treat herpes simplex virus infections. You've got Lisinopril, an ACE inhibitor used to treat high blood pressure and heart failure, plus there's Losartan, an angiotensin II receptor blocker used to treat hypertension. Haloperidol, used to treat schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders, is entirely synthetic, as is Risperidone, an atypical antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and irritability associated with autism.

How about the anticonvulsants, Carbamazepine—used to treat epilepsy and neuropathic pain—and Lamotrigine for bipolar disorder, also used to treat epilepsy? Or hell, Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen (Paracetamol) are synthetic. There's Claritin and Zyrtec, synthetic antihistamines. Lipitor and Zocor to control cholesterol levels and reduce risks of heart disease. Or how about Prilosec and Nexium, proton pump inhibitors that give ppl relief from gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) and peptic ulcers. These synthetic medicines play crucial roles in various medical treatments and have significantly improved healthcare outcomes.

Apologies if it seems like I'm coming down hard on you, @Kushman3000, but I'm compelled to push back against that claim whenever I encounter it… Also, I've seen Tool live seven times now. To me, their shows aren't really MDMA events. That's definitely a show for dropping acid and sneaking in a DMT vape for prying open my third eye!

With reference to the posts from @vash445 @Didgital and @unodelacosa would it be best to go with IPA and acetone for recrystallisation?

For the first bit of dissolving in IPA, do you set it to a particular temp and then slowly add until the mdma is dissolved, or do you calculate a certain amount of IPA to add and then raise the temperature until it dissolves?

After adding the acetone, how should the cooling be managed? Just leave to cool in the ambient temperature or continue to heat and gradually reduce temperature over hours/days?

"I mean I they make temp controlled baths if you are into that sorta thing for $50-200 USD/euro on the Asian persuasion bid site or wally world

Or an ultra Sonic cleaner in my IT /cellphone repair industry we would use Bronson fluid to fix water damage boards.

I mean if I want here for 100ml to 5000ml

I would search for

Laboratory Electric Water Bath with Precise Temperature Control"

If you want a little shake shake

I would look at an ultra sonic cleaner

If you want a base model hot tub I would look for something like IDK

Electric Water Bath with Precise Temperature Control"

Depends

Just understand the "kink" in the chemistry hose

Goes more then I understand

I try and make it explain like in 5-7 years old sorta deal

And I'm always willing to be corrected

But at least hopefully I can see the main issue so we can continue with energy control or keklyon or NMR ETC.

 

[vash445]

Full agreement here.


No, I'm sorry, I have to call this out. The notion somehow that "natural" is better than "man-made" is bullshit. First, it assumes that somehow mankind is unnatural. As if we aren't a natural part of this planet who evolved here. Also, some people claim that mushrooms are better than acid because shrooms are "natural" while LSD is synthetic. But consider: humans have been genetically modifying shrooms through selective reproduction for decades, gatekeeping reproduction for species with higher alkaloid levels. A psychedelic mushroom like P. cubensis "Penis Envy" doesn't have large enough caps or produce enough spores to compete and survive in the wild on its own. And consider how LSD is manufactured from ergot, the fungus that grows on rye.

I used to manufacture MDMA ~25 yrs ago from sassafras oil. The first step is isolating the safrole from the sassafras oil via vacuum distillation. At that point, there's no difference between synthetic safrole and naturally derived safrole. Its chemical name is 3,4-methylenedioxyallylbenzene. There is no entourage effect like we see in cannabis. The safrole is purified. Also, nature produces poisons let's not forget. There are some deadly poisonous fungi out there for example, or white oleander will kill the shit out of someone. You've got poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac. I could go on. And on the flip, do you have any idea how valuable and important the fully manmade anesthetic, Ketamine, is to the medical world? It doesn't compromise respiration while a person can be fully anesthetized. Prior to its discovery full anesthesia required a person to be on a respirator. That's why it's listed as an essential medicine by the World Health Organization.

The WHO also recognizes fentanyl as an essential medicine. Why? Because it's so potent and cheap to manufacture. Without it, there are scores of underdeveloped nations whose hospitals could not otherwise afford opioid analgesics. It provides real pain relief to countless people worldwide. That's what it's for. Comparing oxycontin to fentanyl for their recreational "warmth" is a subjective opinion and a moot point bc that's not what they're for, not what they're designed to do. And the notion that one is better than the other because it is a semi-synthetic morphine derivative is, frankly, nonsense. Want some more examples of fully synthetic medicines that have immense value?

Well for antibiotics there are Levofloxacin and Ciprofloxacin: broad-spectrum antibiotics used to treat a wide-range of bacterial infections. There's the antiviral drugs, Oseltamivir (Tamiflu), and Acyclovir which is used to treat herpes simplex virus infections. You've got Lisinopril, an ACE inhibitor used to treat high blood pressure and heart failure, plus there's Losartan, an angiotensin II receptor blocker used to treat hypertension. Haloperidol, used to treat schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders, is entirely synthetic, as is Risperidone, an atypical antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and irritability associated with autism.

How about the anticonvulsants, Carbamazepine—used to treat epilepsy and neuropathic pain—and Lamotrigine for bipolar disorder, also used to treat epilepsy? Or hell, Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen (Paracetamol) are synthetic. There's Claritin and Zyrtec, synthetic antihistamines. Lipitor and Zocor to control cholesterol levels and reduce risks of heart disease. Or how about Prilosec and Nexium, proton pump inhibitors that give ppl relief from gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) and peptic ulcers. These synthetic medicines play crucial roles in various medical treatments and have significantly improved healthcare outcomes.

Apologies if it seems like I'm coming down hard on you, @Kushman3000, but I'm compelled to push back against that claim whenever I encounter it… Also, I've seen Tool live seven times now. To me, their shows aren't really MDMA events. That's definitely a show for dropping acid and sneaking in a DMT vape for prying open my third eye!

Polymorphs are so rarely achieved

Nobody might know of the issue.

UNTIL A CENTURY and BEYOND goes by..

Sounds like a science fiction story?


Ritonavir Form III: A New Polymorph After 24 Years





Sounds like MDMA if you ask me XD

People here wanna argue about my acetone RECRYSTALLIZED MDMA which is fair

But I try and document to the highest

N degree here.

And until we get a NMR 1H 13C TOSY Cosy plus MALDI AND similar

I believe

If kykleon can deliver nobody can come close

Unless they at MINIMUM SUBMIT

NMR 1H 13C TOSY Cosy plus MALDI AND MALDI

PUT UP

or shut up

I hate to say

Saying safrole is the issue isn't

Because I believe my meh MDMA

From NMR and MALDI confirmed safrole

CAME UP AS

New kid on the block”—MDDM as a new ingredient in Ecstasy tablets Nov 18th 2025


I might be wrong but I'm 99% sure we figured out dimethylamime and safrole was the issue here.

Just know even my friend from Holland/ Amsterdam goes you know your shit and I know more then my friends to keep safe in the edm scene

My apologies if I seem stuck up or narrow minded

Trust me
Everything I've done is for the love of the scene it's never about money and fame/fortune

My friend was like damn I never knew about rivitor and this was an HIV DRUG?

ME YES YES

Nearly twenty years ago, Dunitz and Bernstein described a selection of intriguing cases of polymorphs that disappear. The inability to obtain a crystal form that has previously been prepared is indeed a frustrating and potentially serious problem for solid-state scientists. This Review discusses recent occurrences and examples of disappearing polymorphs (as well as the emergence of elusive crystal forms) to demonstrate the enduring relevance of this troublesome, but always captivating, phenomenon in solid-state research. A number of these instances have been central issues in patent litigations

 

[vash445]

Full agreement here.


No, I'm sorry, I have to call this out. The notion somehow that "natural" is better than "man-made" is bullshit. First, it assumes that somehow mankind is unnatural. As if we aren't a natural part of this planet who evolved here. Also, some people claim that mushrooms are better than acid because shrooms are "natural" while LSD is synthetic. But consider: humans have been genetically modifying shrooms through selective reproduction for decades, gatekeeping reproduction for species with higher alkaloid levels. A psychedelic mushroom like P. cubensis "Penis Envy" doesn't have large enough caps or produce enough spores to compete and survive in the wild on its own. And consider how LSD is manufactured from ergot, the fungus that grows on rye.

I used to manufacture MDMA ~25 yrs ago from sassafras oil. The first step is isolating the safrole from the sassafras oil via vacuum distillation. At that point, there's no difference between synthetic safrole and naturally derived safrole. Its chemical name is 3,4-methylenedioxyallylbenzene. There is no entourage effect like we see in cannabis. The safrole is purified. Also, nature produces poisons let's not forget. There are some deadly poisonous fungi out there for example, or white oleander will kill the shit out of someone. You've got poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac. I could go on. And on the flip, do you have any idea how valuable and important the fully manmade anesthetic, Ketamine, is to the medical world? It doesn't compromise respiration while a person can be fully anesthetized. Prior to its discovery full anesthesia required a person to be on a respirator. That's why it's listed as an essential medicine by the World Health Organization.

The WHO also recognizes fentanyl as an essential medicine. Why? Because it's so potent and cheap to manufacture. Without it, there are scores of underdeveloped nations whose hospitals could not otherwise afford opioid analgesics. It provides real pain relief to countless people worldwide. That's what it's for. Comparing oxycontin to fentanyl for their recreational "warmth" is a subjective opinion and a moot point bc that's not what they're for, not what they're designed to do. And the notion that one is better than the other because it is a semi-synthetic morphine derivative is, frankly, nonsense. Want some more examples of fully synthetic medicines that have immense value?

Well for antibiotics there are Levofloxacin and Ciprofloxacin: broad-spectrum antibiotics used to treat a wide-range of bacterial infections. There's the antiviral drugs, Oseltamivir (Tamiflu), and Acyclovir which is used to treat herpes simplex virus infections. You've got Lisinopril, an ACE inhibitor used to treat high blood pressure and heart failure, plus there's Losartan, an angiotensin II receptor blocker used to treat hypertension. Haloperidol, used to treat schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders, is entirely synthetic, as is Risperidone, an atypical antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and irritability associated with autism.

How about the anticonvulsants, Carbamazepine—used to treat epilepsy and neuropathic pain—and Lamotrigine for bipolar disorder, also used to treat epilepsy? Or hell, Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen (Paracetamol) are synthetic. There's Claritin and Zyrtec, synthetic antihistamines. Lipitor and Zocor to control cholesterol levels and reduce risks of heart disease. Or how about Prilosec and Nexium, proton pump inhibitors that give ppl relief from gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) and peptic ulcers. These synthetic medicines play crucial roles in various medical treatments and have significantly improved healthcare outcomes.

Apologies if it seems like I'm coming down hard on you, @Kushman3000, but I'm compelled to push back against that claim whenever I encounter it… Also, I've seen Tool live seven times now. To me, their shows aren't really MDMA events. That's definitely a show for dropping acid and sneaking in a DMT vape for prying open my third eye!

Have we found what we can't see

"Ritonavir"

 

[vash445]

In Pursuit of GMP MDMA – Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies – MAPS

maps.org

These practices refer to the conditions found in the laboratory where the drug is made, the documentation of the chemicals involved in the synthesis, the manufacturing process, and specific analyses of stability and purity. GMP-certified MDMA is not only required for Phase 3 studies in the U.S., but also for trials in the European Union.

The MDMA that was used in MAPS’ U.S. Phase 2 studies was manufactured by David Nichols at Purdue University in 1985. The MDMA used in our Swiss and Canadian Phase 2 trials was manufactured in Switzerland in 1998 by pharmaceutical supplier Lipomed AG. Both original batches are highly pure and stable, but neither was made under GMP. As a result, despite having access to pure and stable MDMA, MAPS had to locate a company willing and able to manufacture GMP MDMA for our Phase 3 studies, which meant that the company also had to possess or obtain a Schedule I license from the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA). At first, we had some hope that we could obtain retroactive GMP certification for the MDMA we already had, however we soon learned that regulators would require us to make a new bI was excited to assist with this project in part due to the impact that a shortage of GMP MDMA was having on human trials. The absence of GMP MDMA available for research makes the work more difficult and expensive, and discourages scientists from pursuing interesting questions. By manufacturing affordable GMP MDMA and making it available to researchers, we can spur more research into the therapeutic efficacy and mechanisms of action of MDMA.atch of MDMA from scratch.

I was excited to assist with this project in part due to the impact that a shortage of GMP MDMA was having on human trials. The absence of GMP MDMA available for research makes the work more difficult and expensive, and discourages scientists from pursuing interesting questions. By manufacturing affordable GMP MDMA and making it available to researchers, we can spur more research into the therapeutic efficacy and mechanisms of action of MDMA.
I also learned that what we had considered to be a large batch of MDMA is actually considered small in the realm of drug manufacturing. Representatives from several firms told us that they could just
as easily make a kilogram of MDMA as they could 100g or 500g, so the price would be almost the same. Since that was the case, trying to determine exactly how much MDMA we would need for Phase 3 trials was not necessary. If the price is similar and we can further more research by bringing more GMP MDMA into the world, then why not order a kilogram?

I had expected that manufacturing a chemical that is over 100 years old to be a simple process, like making widgets. I thought that there was a set of directions that all pharmacologists and chemists would know that would produce MDMA. However, from our discussions and exchanges during the search, we learned that building a chemical is more akin to cooking or artwork: finding a cost-effective, high-yield route to making a future medicine is a creative process of discovery, not to be found in a single set of directions.




One of the study requirements is that you do the sessions while fasting.

Most concerning

The Commercial Chemistry of MDMA: From Research to Patient Access – Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies – MAPS

maps.org

The chemistry of MDMA is not a given, and requires expert development to get to the commercial standard we need to ensure patient access and safety at scale. However, it should not be expected that we will stop learning about the chemistry of this compound; changes in manufacturing process, scale, and product formulation can bring with them new challenges and lessons.

From our API development work specifically around crystallization we have found no way to ensure the MDMA crystals are uniform in size. Therefore, no particle size distribution specification has been set to date. As we move into commercial drug product development, where not only the chemical but physical properties need to be controlled and uniform from batch to batch, this will be the next focus. What is our desired particle size? How does this affect the excipient compatibility, flowability, and ultimate content uniformity of our drug product?

As with our ongoing clinical trials to understand the MDMA safety and efficacy profile to its fullest, the chemistry of MDMA is an ongoing development process. We are continuously gathering data on both the API and the drug product, and communicating our findings to the relevant regulatory authorities to align our current understanding of shelf life and release controls. We look forward to continuing to share and publish this data, in line with MAPS’ values of transparency and open science

 

[vash445]

With reference to the posts from @vash445 @Didgital and @unodelacosa would it be best to go with IPA and acetone for recrystallisation?

For the first bit of dissolving in IPA, do you set it to a particular temp and then slowly add until the mdma is dissolved, or do you calculate a certain amount of IPA to add and then raise the temperature until it dissolves?

After adding the acetone, how should the cooling be managed? Just leave to cool in the ambient temperature or continue to heat and gradually reduce temperature over hours/days?

For solubility isopropyl is best

However reading maps research

It says alcohol solvents are more likely to form form 2 vs form 1

Does this mean anything... Maps uses specifically form 1 not form 2 or form 3.

Idk. What I can say is I used acetone and created magic from meh.

Does yield suck... Yes. Would I suggest iso vs acetone

Give me a few weeks/months and I can chime in better

But I will agree yeild is better Isopropyl then methanol

From my experience ethanol or acetone is similar in yield as in its

But what I can say recrystallization from

Distilled H20 created meh. It looked amazing but the crystal broke easy and having people sample it they didn't like it

Like wise my own experience of ethanol was also meh but I do live in an extremely high humidity area



The yields hands down are clearly better with 99.5% isopropyl

When it comes to methanol my state has regulations so it's harder to get. Not impossible just more expensive

Now when it comes to

This this the best I've ever had since 1996 and we are talk the "Maps from vendor that made firelight LSD" IF YA KNOW YOU KNOW firelight and the pink pyramids with gold flake

He ranked my recrystallization with acetone higher then the "MAPS MDMA" I had around for an extremely short time.

Anyways I called it maps equivalent, the people that tried it said

To INFINITY AND BEYOND

take it for what you will

But if I was doing commerical scale

Recrystallization #1 would be isopropyl

Recrystallization #2 would be acetone

Anyone can take it for what you will. Just know I'm here for research and to advance the manufacturer scenes

Anyone can follow my suggestions or they won't. Just know in the end I mean well..

For the first recrystallization I would use isopropyl vs methanol vs ethanol vs acetone

If all you have access to is 99% ethanol vs 99%

My suggestion is acetone for recrystallization #1 and recrystallization #2 and avoid ethanol at all costs

I would probably choose acetone vs ethanol, the yield with ethanol is not only is crappy the formation of form 2 and just formed crystals just is overall crap

"I am strongly analytical with a desire to organize, categorize, and put everything in its rightful and predicable place in a vain attempt to control this very unpredictable world. At the same time, I am emotionally and empathetically driven, feeling that no matter how much we try to draw these lines, we live in a world that transcends any model or equation.

During my A-levels (the UK’s version of high school), I made the choice to drop art class and take up chemistry. I had come to really enjoy chemistry during my school years, and eventually it seemed like a better option for me to study than art, which felt too abstract—chemistry is exact and predictable, right? What I learned throughout those years and my subsequent chemistry degree, however, was something different: Science is not exact, and our understanding is constantly evolving. It started to seem like a relentless attempt to place evermore complex sets of round pegs in square holes.

Having said that, it is not as though the results of these human scientific endeavors aren’t astounding and necessary, as they include feats of engineering and medicine. The point is that even those feats are imperfect; they are not always fully understood and can carry risks."

" Just like the building that won awards for structural and architectural brilliance can have unknown faults and fail years later, the drug that is shown to be highly effective in its target indication can bring unknown side effects that surface after licensure."

 

[vash445]

Chased Kykeon again and got the following response:

"At the moment, the techniques available in our laboratory are HPLC–MS/MS (triple quadrupole) and ¹H-NMR (with ¹³C-NMR when needed), combined with simple solvent-based sample preparation. Although we do not currently have MALDI, high-resolution MS, XRF/XRD to physically isolate the “8%” impurity fraction, we can still perform a meaningful impurity investigation with the tools we have.

Using HPLC–MS/MS, we can design a targeted method to look specifically for known synthesis byproducts, intermediates and structural analogues described in the literature, including possible inhibitory impurities such as 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)propan-2-ol. Even without isolating the impurity fraction, MS/MS can detect many low-level components if they ionize under ESI, and we can focus our interpretation on non-MDMA signals.

With NMR, we can perform an impurity-oriented ¹H-NMR scan, which is especially good for identifying certain classes of contaminants (alcohols, aldehydes, amides, unreacted precursors). While very low-concentration impurities may fall below the NMR detection threshold, combining the information from NMR and MS/MS provides a much clearer picture of the impurity profile and can highlight unexpected components.

Based on our experience, a combined HPLC–MS/MS + NMR impurity-focused analysis can still reveal many relevant impurities without needing to physically separate them, and it is the most realistic and technically robust approach we can offer in-house."

Let me know if this fits your needs, and if you have any other questions.
***************

How does that sound?

So honestly it sounds what I expected

For 1 I've always been neutral with your side and kykeon analytics

As in you paid kykeon analytics I believe $150 for a basic NMR.. you got the graphs which is great

But at the same time you are disappointed... And I'm not saying I'm not also. I hope you can see the difference between

What everyone normally asks for...

And do you mind running a column chromotography and seperate and let us know the basic flow parameters

And we know they don't have MALDI AND XRD. But have ETC ETC ETC

I guess since we are finally on the right page.

I would ask them

What is the MHz they run their NMR at...

To explain like 5 or a computer geek

So when my friend ran NMR at his lab. Basically it's similar to qi charging aka wireless phone charging, magnesium etc etc

Anyways you have 2 cooling methods

Helium which as you can imagine makes a LOT of noise

Or nitrogen gas which doesn't make noise but tends to be a CRAP ton more expensive

Now WHY does this matter?

Well think of like a radioactive reactor, if you don't cool the magnets you are gonna have thermal run away, if you have thermal run away, well..
To me IDK what's worse an overheated NMR OR HN3 aka Hydrazoic Acid

I've never dealt with Hydrazoic Acid or an NMR but I've heard stories. Someone somewhere was that laboratory head ... All the precautions were taking and an improperly label flask that said HN3 in a chill freezer was there.

Dude was litterly scared shitless as the BOMB SQUAD WAS CALLED.

Was the department head overreacting over 100-200ml of a flask of HN3 with no name attached.

n-nonyl azide (C/N ratio = 3) is the smallest organic azide that can be isolated and stored in its pure form (up to 20 grams).2
Azides with a C/N ratio between 1 and 3 can be synthesized and isolated, but should be stored below room temperature at no more than 1 M concentration and at a maximum of 5 grams of material.2
Organic azides with C/N ratio < 1 should never be isolated. It may be synthesized if the azide is a transient intermediate species AND the limiting reagent in the reaction mixture AND is limited to a maximum quantity of 1 gram.


Idk probably not I would be scared. You need to understand Azides and Hydrazoic Acid can go BOOM. like AZIDES GO BOOM just from a little shake shake. Like a little shake shake mean the vibration from the garbage truck
For fun you might have heard of Potassium nitrate (KNO₃)

Anyways strike said, no mater how much you want to make MDA from TNNNT or something like that ...don't . Anyways Nitrogen doesn't particularly want to play with ANY of the other kids. So, when you make it hold hands with someone else, it gets REALLY excited about letting go. So much so, that it tends to throw a bit of a party about it.

No matter what...

"
Do not try this method! Strike repeats, do not try this method! This is the method popularized by Dr. Shulgin and reported in some of the underground literature [7] which uses the most dangerous compound in drug conversion chemistry that Strike is aware of: tetranitromethane. The reason this method keeps hanging around is because one can get clean, hyper yields of B-nitropropenes in less than 5 minutes. But the ultimate method can exact the ultimate price (death, bubba!). Rave rats are very idealistic and figure they can tangle with this method if they are careful. And since Strike cannot undo the presence of this procedure in the literature or the determination of enthusiastic chemist to try this, no matter how much they are told not to, then Strike will at least lay down the proper way it is accomplished.

There is an incredible amount of energy in the carbon-nitro bond. TNT (trinitrotoluene) has three such bonds. Tetranitromethane has four ! Starting to get the picture?"


No... understand the law of 6 ... Then come back here.

Anyways ....
Azides GO BOOM BOOM. In April 2010, a maintenance worker was replacing a sink in a hematology lab. Laboratory staff had always kept a stream of running water in the sink to dilute and flush the sodium azide. However, the copper pipe had dried out during the replacement process. This allowed sodium azide residue to react with the pipe, forming lead and copper azides. While the maintenance worker was assembling the sink and drain pipe, the pipe exploded due to the friction and shock from the azides being disturbed. The maintenance worker sustained serious permanent injury from the incident.
Potassium nitrate go BOOM.
AIRBAGS (sodium Azides ) GO BOOM BOOM
Hydrazoic Acid GO BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM

Which is why...
When heated they undergo molecular rearrangeoment (Curtius rearrangement), forming isocyanates...

Cough cough

Ie helional to MDMA without MDP2P Enamine formation

Or more recently 1-2 pages back...

Anyways

They make table top NMR that low MHz and they make a much higher one. IE you can get a "quantum computer" for around $5,000, but it's a specialized educational device from SpinQ using Nuclear Magnetic Resonance (NMR), not a powerful universal quantum computer like those from IBM or Google; these desktop SpinQ machines offer hands-on learning for 2-3 qubits, contrasting sharply with multi-million dollar research systems and making quantum principles accessible for students and hobbyists.
Anyways I guess the next question is how many MHz their NMR goes
A table top would go from 60-150 mhz tops

What interesting about the SpinQ from Gemini is that it doesn't need cooling.
Now granted I showed my friend this during 2021 it's launch during COVID etc etc.

But a normal NMR usually goes from 200mhz to 900+ MHz

And from my understanding the bigger the frequency ... Ie 1000mhz the Greater the signal at the same time the greater things can go HOT/Thermal run way / BOOM BOOM BOOM

Anyways I would would ask if they are running a brunker NMR and it's frequency... And if TOSY Cosy etc is a possibility? Or what the probe is capable of.. when it comes to 2D and 3D NMR

We eliminated molecular weight via MALDI and XRD. So we at least have a base line what they can and can't detect

Anyways there's definitely a differences between a table top NMR and full size NMR

Granted Gemini spin q has a place. But we also need to know what the limits are if that is what kykeon analytics is using... And the probes they have available

And for the chem geek

I can pay 4x the price of kykeon analytics this allows Access to NMR facility manages three high resolution NMR spectrometers. A Bruker Avance III HD 800 MHz spectrometer equipped with a TCI cryoprobe. A Varian INOVA 600 MHz spectrometer equipped with a triple resonances cryoprobe. And a recently upgraded Bruker Avance III HD 500 MHz spectrometer equipped with a mutinuclear Smart Probe.

But it would be important to know is this a table top NMR or a full room



or a full room NMR?

Superconducting Magnet Explosion | Office of Environment, Health & Safety

What Happened? A 9.4 Tesla superconducting magnet, used for mass spectroscopy in a campus laboratory recently suffered a catastrophic failure. The incident was apparently caused by over-pressurization and failure of the liquid helium (LHe) chamber. Although there were no injuries because the...

ehs.berkeley.edu

Benchtop or tabletop NMR prices go from $40,000 to $150,000 and a new NMR full size start at 200-400k and can go up to like 800k to million

So it's best to know if it's a table NMR or full size machine

Granted you can find a used 200 Mhz for like $2-5k

 

[ThreePointCircle]

My suggestion is acetone for recrystallization #1 and recrystallization #2 and avoid ethanol at all costs

I would probably choose acetone vs ethanol, the yield with ethanol is not only is crappy the formation of form 2 and just formed crystals just is overall crap

So basically stick with acetone as you've had success with it, and it's better to replicate success before changing things in order to attempt some optimisations?

 

[ThreePointCircle]

I would ask them

What is the MHz they run their NMR at...

I can ask them what spec their NMR is. Anything else?

The front of desk has emailed me to say they're having a discussion with the lab team and director to work out what they can offer. They should reply early next week.

 

[Didgital]

For the first bit of dissolving in IPA, do you set it to a particular temp and then slowly add until the mdma is dissolved

I would use just IPA, and it NEEDS to be anhydrous. 19mL brought to a boil, 1 gram added, solution is stirred until clear. Allow to cool slowly. Slower the cooling = larger crystals. If you stick in freezer when its still hot youll get a ton of mini crystals.

 

[vash445]

I would use just IPA, and it NEEDS to be anhydrous. 19mL brought to a boil, 1 gram added, solution is stirred until clear. Allow to cool slowly. Slower the cooling = larger crystals. If you stick in freezer when its still hot youll get a ton of mini crystals.

While I agree to some extent maps
DID notice using an alcohol cause it to form form 2 vs form 1 maps uses form 1

Could it make a difference no idea but it is definitely important to take into consideration

MDMA·HCl was previously known to form one major crystal form (Form I) and at least four hydrates that incorporate 0.25–1 waters of hydration. (16) Our polymorphic screening process identified two new anhydrous crystal forms (Forms II and III) and established Form I as the most stable of the three. Form II can be reproducibly produced from a variety of alcoholic solvents, as well as in the presence of ethyl acetate and an ethereal antisolvent. Unlike Form III, which spontaneously converted to Form I after 2.5 weeks at ambient conditions, and could not be reproduced, Form II is shelf-stable, though it will convert to Form I under competitive equilibration conditions. Interestingly, both Form I and Form II reversibly convert into the known monohydrate; upon dehydration, the monohydrate formed from Form I will revert back to Form I, and the monohydrate formed from Form II will revert back to Form II. If crystallized from a concentrated aqueous solution with no form memory, the monohydrate will thermally dehydrate exclusively into Form I. X-ray powder diffraction spectra for all three forms are shown


I will point out however that MAPS does use IPA for their recrystallization however they probably do have a vac oven ...

 

[jveiojajoivioedsac]

Full agreement here.


No, I'm sorry, I have to call this out. The notion somehow that "natural" is better than "man-made" is bullshit. First, it assumes that somehow mankind is unnatural. As if we aren't a natural part of this planet who evolved here. Also, some people claim that mushrooms are better than acid because shrooms are "natural" while LSD is synthetic. But consider: humans have been genetically modifying shrooms through selective reproduction for decades, gatekeeping reproduction for species with higher alkaloid levels. A psychedelic mushroom like P. cubensis "Penis Envy" doesn't have large enough caps or produce enough spores to compete and survive in the wild on its own. And consider how LSD is manufactured from ergot, the fungus that grows on rye.

I used to manufacture MDMA ~25 yrs ago from sassafras oil. The first step is isolating the safrole from the sassafras oil via vacuum distillation. At that point, there's no difference between synthetic safrole and naturally derived safrole. Its chemical name is 3,4-methylenedioxyallylbenzene. There is no entourage effect like we see in cannabis. The safrole is purified. Also, nature produces poisons let's not forget. There are some deadly poisonous fungi out there for example, or white oleander will kill the shit out of someone. You've got poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac. I could go on. And on the flip, do you have any idea how valuable and important the fully manmade anesthetic, Ketamine, is to the medical world? It doesn't compromise respiration while a person can be fully anesthetized. Prior to its discovery full anesthesia required a person to be on a respirator. That's why it's listed as an essential medicine by the World Health Organization.

The WHO also recognizes fentanyl as an essential medicine. Why? Because it's so potent and cheap to manufacture. Without it, there are scores of underdeveloped nations whose hospitals could not otherwise afford opioid analgesics. It provides real pain relief to countless people worldwide. That's what it's for. Comparing oxycontin to fentanyl for their recreational "warmth" is a subjective opinion and a moot point bc that's not what they're for, not what they're designed to do. And the notion that one is better than the other because it is a semi-synthetic morphine derivative is, frankly, nonsense. Want some more examples of fully synthetic medicines that have immense value?

Well for antibiotics there are Levofloxacin and Ciprofloxacin: broad-spectrum antibiotics used to treat a wide-range of bacterial infections. There's the antiviral drugs, Oseltamivir (Tamiflu), and Acyclovir which is used to treat herpes simplex virus infections. You've got Lisinopril, an ACE inhibitor used to treat high blood pressure and heart failure, plus there's Losartan, an angiotensin II receptor blocker used to treat hypertension. Haloperidol, used to treat schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders, is entirely synthetic, as is Risperidone, an atypical antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and irritability associated with autism.

How about the anticonvulsants, Carbamazepine—used to treat epilepsy and neuropathic pain—and Lamotrigine for bipolar disorder, also used to treat epilepsy? Or hell, Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen (Paracetamol) are synthetic. There's Claritin and Zyrtec, synthetic antihistamines. Lipitor and Zocor to control cholesterol levels and reduce risks of heart disease. Or how about Prilosec and Nexium, proton pump inhibitors that give ppl relief from gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) and peptic ulcers. These synthetic medicines play crucial roles in various medical treatments and have significantly improved healthcare outcomes.

Apologies if it seems like I'm coming down hard on you, @Kushman3000, but I'm compelled to push back against that claim whenever I encounter it… Also, I've seen Tool live seven times now. To me, their shows aren't really MDMA events. That's definitely a show for dropping acid and sneaking in a DMT vape for prying open my third eye!

Blah blah blah. Medicine from the earth is the real medicine. In fact, marijuana is the only real

 

[vash445]

Blah blah blah. Medicine from the earth is the real medicine. In fact, marijuana is the only real

Tell that to the spray packs

 

[unodelacosa]

Medicine from the earth is the real medicine.

All medicine is medicine from the earth. Where else would it be from? Another planet?

 

[vash445]

All medicine is medicine from the earth. Where else would it be from? Another planet?

Aliens brought the ergot

 

[ThreePointCircle]

From Kykeon:

The procedures from here are pretty simple. The samples are stored for a maximum of 2 months, so you will need to order regular q+q testing and send us new samples. You will need to mention that you specifically need us to "perform full targeted MRM methods on a range of MDMA impurities." If you can even tell us which impurities they want to test for, that’s even better.

Also given some sort of discount code so they're willing to do the analysis for the standard fee!

 

[popsweat]

Wonder if this will stir up the R vs S MDMA debate again

AtaiBeckley patents R-MDMA formulation

AtaiBeckley announced last week that the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office granted the company a patent for EMP-01, a formulation of oral R-MDMA. MDMA is typically a “racemic mixture”: it contains an equal proportion of two molecular structures, known as R-MDMA and S-MDMA, which are mirror images of each other; EMP-01 is a formulation of R-MDMA.

Previous research has suggested that while S-MDMA is associated with strong visual effects and higher blood pressure, R-MDMA more strongly activates serotonin receptors. AtaiBeckley says EMP-01 has been “generally found to be more similar to classical psychedelics than to racemic MDMA.” In its announcement, the company said it would release preliminary data from a phase 2a study using EMP-01 to treat social anxiety disorder in the first months of 2026.

Other companies are also looking to bring R-MDMA to market. In October, a San Francisco-based company called Arcadia received Investigational New Drug status from the Food and Drug Administration for its R-MDMA formulation, which it calls AM-1002. Arcadia is also studying its R-MDMA formulation in the treatment of anxiety. The New York-based company MindMed also has an R-MDMA research program, investigating its use in people with autism spectrum disorder.