What is wrong with the MDMA available today? - v2

[vash445]

Isopropylidene (2-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)acetyl)malonate

And as predicted MAMDPA

Alternative chemicals for the manufacture of MDMA, such as MAMDPA and IMDPAM,

methyl 3-oxo-2- (3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butanoate (MAMDPA). These are used because they are easily converted into PMK. Most recently also isopropylidene (2-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)acetyl)malonate (IMDPAM) has emerged

 

[unodelacosa]

Isopropylidene (2-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)acetyl)malonate

And as predicted MAMDPA

Alternative chemicals for the manufacture of MDMA, such as MAMDPA and IMDPAM,

methyl 3-oxo-2- (3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butanoate (MAMDPA). These are used because they are easily converted into PMK. Most recently also isopropylidene (2-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)acetyl)malonate (IMDPAM) has emerged

I'm just curious what your source is for this knowledge? It's very interesting and plausible, but where are you drawing this from and can you share some links, por favor?

Also, regarding LSD purity and MDMA purity… firstly, have you verified that your recrystallized MDMA is 99% pure? Vacuum distillation and fractional distillation of the final product seem necessary for that level of purity, and possibly some column chromatography, too, and everything with exceptionally pure reagents going into it, not hardware-purchased solvents and shit like that (unless these are purified as well, but let's face it: this kind of practice has to be quite rare among the clandestine chemists of the world in my best estimate but what do I know?). Not that I'm disagreeing with you, mind you; just curious what verification of purity you've undertaken for making these claims / postulating these hypotheses.

I recall reading something many years ago on The Hive about how the impurities of MDMA manufacturing had been isolated and bioassayed individually. The conclusion was that MDMA's impurities often have an action that is opposite to MDMA's effects, so high purity here probably really does make a big difference. However, Dr. David Nichols and his group when he was at Purdue isolated LSD impurities and isomers and discovered they are inactive in the CNS and barely active in the peripheral nervous system. However, this activity doesn't actually kick in until much more of the impurities and isomers is administered. The difference in active amount is so great and so is LSD's potency that no one would ever take a dose of impurities high enough to affect the trip. LSD is what gets you high in LSD and nothing else. So why isn't all acid the same? I believe it's due to the wild differences in effects that come with different doses. So like you think you're taking 200 µg when in fact, because it was 70% pure LSD, you're actually only taking 140 µg. Big difference in dose there. Meanwhile the 60 µg of nor-LSD, lumi-LSD, iso-LSD, or whatever is well below the threshold for that compound's effects on the PNS to be felt…

I'm not 100% sure that's how it works, of course, but this is a plausible, believable explanation perhaps. Thoughts?

 

[vash445]

I'm just curious what your source is for this knowledge? It's very interesting and plausible, but where are you drawing this from and can you share some links, por favor?

Also, regarding LSD purity and MDMA purity… firstly, have you verified that your recrystallized MDMA is 99% pure? Vacuum distillation and fractional distillation of the final product seem necessary for that level of purity, and possibly some column chromatography, too, and everything with exceptionally pure reagents going into it, not hardware-purchased solvents and shit like that (unless these are purified as well, but let's face it: this kind of practice has to be quite rare among the clandestine chemists of the world in my best estimate but what do I know?). Not that I'm disagreeing with you, mind you; just curious what verification of purity you've undertaken for making these claims / postulating these hypotheses.

I recall reading something many years ago on The Hive about how the impurities of MDMA manufacturing had been isolated and bioassayed individually. The conclusion was that MDMA's impurities often have an action that is opposite to MDMA's effects, so high purity here probably really does make a big difference. However, Dr. David Nichols and his group when he was at Purdue isolated LSD impurities and isomers and discovered they are inactive in the CNS and barely active in the peripheral nervous system. However, this activity doesn't actually kick in until much more of the impurities and isomers is administered. The difference in active amount is so great and so is LSD's potency that no one would ever take a dose of impurities high enough to affect the trip. LSD is what gets you high in LSD and nothing else. So why isn't all acid the same? I believe it's due to the wild differences in effects that come with different doses. So like you think you're taking 200 µg when in fact, because it was 70% pure LSD, you're actually only taking 140 µg. Big difference in dose there. Meanwhile the 60 µg of nor-LSD, lumi-LSD, iso-LSD, or whatever is well below the threshold for that compound's effects on the PNS to be felt…

I'm not 100% sure that's how it works, of course, but this is a plausible, believable explanation perhaps. Thoughts?

EU Drug Market: MDMA — Production. How and where MDMA is produced in Europe | The European Union Drugs Agency (EUDA)

This resource is part of

www.euda.europa.eu

https://www.incb.org/documents/PRECURSORS/TECHNICAL_REPORTS/2024/E/PRE_Report_E.pdf

 

[vash445]

I'm just curious what your source is for this knowledge? It's very interesting and plausible, but where are you drawing this from and can you share some links, por favor?

Also, regarding LSD purity and MDMA purity… firstly, have you verified that your recrystallized MDMA is 99% pure? Vacuum distillation and fractional distillation of the final product seem necessary for that level of purity, and possibly some column chromatography, too, and everything with exceptionally pure reagents going into it, not hardware-purchased solvents and shit like that (unless these are purified as well, but let's face it: this kind of practice has to be quite rare among the clandestine chemists of the world in my best estimate but what do I know?). Not that I'm disagreeing with you, mind you; just curious what verification of purity you've undertaken for making these claims / postulating these hypotheses.

I recall reading something many years ago on The Hive about how the impurities of MDMA manufacturing had been isolated and bioassayed individually. The conclusion was that MDMA's impurities often have an action that is opposite to MDMA's effects, so high purity here probably really does make a big difference. However, Dr. David Nichols and his group when he was at Purdue isolated LSD impurities and isomers and discovered they are inactive in the CNS and barely active in the peripheral nervous system. However, this activity doesn't actually kick in until much more of the impurities and isomers is administered. The difference in active amount is so great and so is LSD's potency that no one would ever take a dose of impurities high enough to affect the trip. LSD is what gets you high in LSD and nothing else. So why isn't all acid the same? I believe it's due to the wild differences in effects that come with different doses. So like you think you're taking 200 µg when in fact, because it was 70% pure LSD, you're actually only taking 140 µg. Big difference in dose there. Meanwhile the 60 µg of nor-LSD, lumi-LSD, iso-LSD, or whatever is well below the threshold for that compound's effects on the PNS to be felt…

I'm not 100% sure that's how it works, of course, but this is a plausible, believable explanation perhaps. Thoughts?

I've only done a double recrystallization very slow and the MDMA went from brown to clear see thru meth like shards

Granted I probably should do an acid base/ run it thru a column.

But what I can say I have taken meh and turned it into magic and the purity while probably not 99.5%, is probably much higher than the standard market

When I get the funds I'll send it to kykleon analytics

What I can tell you is I can offer the people the typical cheap dirty stuff. But when they tried my double recrystallization

There's no going back for them.

 

[Biscuit]

Awesome work vash445, I was just about to post the same report in response to the question above and i have been meaning to post it for a few weeks now regardless. For me it is reports like these and journal articles from forensic chemists actually investigating the modern reality of MDMA and MA manufacture, that are critical in this debate.

The high pressure reductive animation AMINATION (thanks unodelacosa; I am aware it is amination, but clearly I’ve overlooked this embarrassing incorrect autocorrect a couple of times now, haven’t I!) hydrogen gas over platinum oxide catalyst cannot be overlooked as a significant aspect to this conundrum either; I posted (probably years ago now) that this method had been reported in similar Australian government produced reports to have become far more common (as opposed to borohydride and Leuckart etc) at around the same time that these PMK designer precursors started to become commonplace. Throw in a “one pot” approach to the whole shebang and without purification of the MDMA at the end, I still maintain it’s going to result in a bit of a mess with many potential side reactions given the complexity of some of these PMK “designer” precursors.

The other thing of course that this report confirms, which a few of us have tried to raise in vain at times, is that the method referred to is being used to manufacture methamphetamine too, just with a BMK “designer” precursor instead.

Is it it any wonder that so much of the MDMA and MA out there these days frankly is just meh, subpar and a miserable excuse for what it used to be, and indeed both of them became like this at around the same time. The evidence is there. It is not a coincidence. Same method. Similar timeframe. Similar shite product to varying degrees being pumped out to the four corners of the earth.

Publications like the one referred to have contained this sort of information for years, and I’d really like to see the chemists on this site who have been so vocal in this thread and in many others like it, actually engage with the current methods of manufacture in considering this issue and not those from 20 years ago. I honestly believe the answers are in these current methods of manufacture particularly where there is likely to be a lack of proper purification steps along the way.

Can I prove this - no I cannot. But it would be nice to hear some considered opinions on the issue and see where that takes us.

 

[vash445]

Awesome work vash445, I was just about to post the same report in response to the question above and i have been meaning to post it for a few weeks now regardless. For me it is reports like these and journal articles from forensic chemists actually investigating the modern reality of MDMA and MA manufacture, that are critical in this debate.

The high pressure reductive animation via hydrogen gas over platinum oxide catalyst cannot be overlooked as a significant aspect to this conundrum either; I posted (probably years ago now) that this method had been reported in similar Australian government produced reports to have become far more common (as opposed to borohydride and Leuckart etc) at around the same time that these PMK designer precursors started to become commonplace. Throw in a “one pot” approach to the whole shebang and without purification of the MDMA at the end, I still maintain it’s going to result in a bit of a mess with many potential side reactions given the complexity of some of these PMK “designer” precursors.

The other thing of course that this report confirms, which a few of us have tried to raise in vain at times, is that the method referred to is being used to manufacture methamphetamine too, just with a BMK “designer” precursor instead.

Is it it any wonder that so much of the MDMA and MA out there these days frankly is just meh, subpar and a miserable excuse for what it used to be, and indeed both of them became like this at around the same time. The evidence is there. It is not a coincidence. Same method. Similar timeframe. Similar shite product to varying degrees being pumped out to the four corners of the earth.

Publications like the one referred to have contained this sort of information for years, and I’d really like to see the chemists on this site who have been so vocal in this thread and in many others like it, actually engage with the current methods of manufacture in considering this issue and not those from 20 years ago. I honestly believe the answers are in these current methods of manufacture particularly where there is likely to be a lack of proper purification steps along the way.

Can I prove this - no I cannot. But it would be nice to hear some considered opinions on the issue and see where that takes us.

Same can I prove this the only thing I have is the multiple NMR and a confirmed magic batch while all meh had something off proper recrystallization MDMA fixed the meh in my experience

 

[vash445]

New kid on the block”—MDDM as a new ingredient in Ecstasy tablets Nov 18th 2025

Quantitative analysis revealed that MDA occurred in the highest concentrations per tablet (26–74 mg), followed by MDDM (11–28 mg) and MDMA (3–11 mg). Although MDDM alone is considered to have low potency, its co‐occurrence with other phenylethylamines may produce synergistic effects, potentially increasing toxicity. These findings shed light on synthetic routes in illicit MDMA production and highlight the unpredictable chemical composition of street drugs. The detection of multiple active substances—even at low doses—raises significant public health concerns, highlighting the necessity for continuous forensic monitoring and increased awareness of the dynamic and complex nature of synthetic drug markets.

https://pdf.sci-net.xyz/c923d03f8c8c3064c63cf6d55b5cea70/New-kid-on-the-block-scp-MDDM-scp-as-a-new-ingredient-in-i-Ecstasy-i-tablets.pdf#view=FitH&navpanes=0

The reduced potency of MDDM has been exploited in an unexpected way. Based on the premise that the dialkylation of the amine group of amphetamine makes the parent compound intrinsically less active but without interfering with its ability to enter the brain, a large number of materials have been explored to take advantage of this very property. There is a need in medical diagnosis for agents that can allow various organs of the body to be visualized. One of the most powerful modalities for this work is the positron camera, and the use of the unusual properties of the positron that allow it to work. In the art of positron emission tomography (PET), an emitted positron (from a radioactive and thus unstable atom) will quickly interact with a nearby electron and all mass disappears with the complete conversion to energy. The detection of the produced pair of annihilation gamma rays will establish with great exactness the line along which this interaction occurred. So if one were to put an unstable atom into a compound that went to the tissue of the brain, and this atom were to decay there, the resulting gamma rays would allow a “photograph” to be made of the brain tissue. One could in this way visualize brain tissue, and observe abnormalities.

 

[unodelacosa]

The high pressure reductive animation via hydrogen gas over platinum oxide catalyst cannot be overlooked as a significant aspect to this conundrum either; I posted (probably years ago now) that this method had been reported in similar Australian government produced reports to have become far more common (as opposed to borohydride and Leuckart etc) at around the same time that these PMK designer precursors started to become commonplace. Throw in a “one pot” approach to the whole shebang and without purification of the MDMA at the end, I still maintain it’s going to result in a bit of a mess with many potential side reactions given the complexity of some of these PMK “designer” precursors.

First, reductive amination (ahem) is a one-step reduction, so of course it's "one-pot." Maybe you're labelling it this as a demerit and carrying over association with shoddy fly-by-night clandestine operations and shortcuts, but that's a stereotype and I want to discourage it. Safrole vs. PMK is another place where people get the wrong impression. Anyone starting from safrole is still making PMK (read: MDP-2-P) before they ever touch MDMA. That's been standard chemistry for decades. Shulgin was using these routes in PIHKAL long before any of today's designer precursors showed up, and plenty of labs worldwide are still using older methods like Al/Hg amalgam with methylamine and MeOH. So I'm not sure the Australian reports represent the global picture well enough for us to draw big conclusions.

It just feels like you might be trying to make limited or local data fit the idea that there's a single main chemical culprit behind inconsistent effects people report from illicit "MDMA." And I'm not saying you're wrong, just that the pieces don't quite line up for me.

On the meth angle: sure, PMK → MDMA and BMK → MA using similar reductions is basic chemistry. But the jump to mystery side-product X and its 3,4-desmethylenedioxy analog simultaneously degrading both MDMA and meth worldwide is a pretty big leap.

As for the claim that "so much MDMA and MA out there is meh", that's a huge assumption on a global level. What dataset confirms that? From what I see, quality and availability vary regionally like they always have. There's definitely bunk stuff, impurities, and counterfeits floating around, but that's neither new nor uniform. Honestly, it's exactly why legalization and proper oversight would clean up the scene if implemented correctly.

Is it it any wonder that so much of the MDMA and MA out there these days frankly is just meh, subpar and a miserable excuse for what it used to be, and indeed both of them became like this at around the same time.

That’s the classic logic trap, cum hoc ergo propter hoc, or "correlation does not imply causation." And anyway if there is evidence, great, but right now it doesn't look settled enough to declare it. Black-market production also isn't centralized enough for one methodological shift to ruin the global supply of two different drugs in parallel. That's not how these networks operate. Some labs adopt newer methods, others don't. Discovery of one trend in one region doesn't mean everyone else abandoned older routes.

The belief that "current methods" inherently skip purification steps also needs backing. Clandestine chemistry has variable quality control. That's not unique to 2025.

We can't prove much about clandestine processes with certainty; we can only make educated guesses. That's why I'm hesitant to treat any single explanation as the definitive answer. Regions differ wildly: people in the UK and Ireland complain a lot about weak MDMA; Germany's patchy but often solid; the Netherlands is still pumping out strong gear; and in the US, both meth and MDMA quality can be excellent depending on who you know. And these are just a handful of markets; many others exist worldwide.

I hope none of this comes across harsh. I get why your theory is appealing, and it's worth discussing. I just think some of the assumptions deserve another look before we pin the global situation on one manufacturing shift.

Have a great week. I genuinely appreciate the thoughtful debate.

 

[jveiojajoivioedsac]

Top tier conspiracy thread. Keep it going.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

Chased Kykeon again and got the following response:

"At the moment, the techniques available in our laboratory are HPLC–MS/MS (triple quadrupole) and ¹H-NMR (with ¹³C-NMR when needed), combined with simple solvent-based sample preparation. Although we do not currently have MALDI, high-resolution MS, XRF/XRD to physically isolate the “8%” impurity fraction, we can still perform a meaningful impurity investigation with the tools we have.

Using HPLC–MS/MS, we can design a targeted method to look specifically for known synthesis byproducts, intermediates and structural analogues described in the literature, including possible inhibitory impurities such as 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)propan-2-ol. Even without isolating the impurity fraction, MS/MS can detect many low-level components if they ionize under ESI, and we can focus our interpretation on non-MDMA signals.

With NMR, we can perform an impurity-oriented ¹H-NMR scan, which is especially good for identifying certain classes of contaminants (alcohols, aldehydes, amides, unreacted precursors). While very low-concentration impurities may fall below the NMR detection threshold, combining the information from NMR and MS/MS provides a much clearer picture of the impurity profile and can highlight unexpected components.

Based on our experience, a combined HPLC–MS/MS + NMR impurity-focused analysis can still reveal many relevant impurities without needing to physically separate them, and it is the most realistic and technically robust approach we can offer in-house."

Let me know if this fits your needs, and if you have any other questions.
***************

How does that sound?

 

[ThreePointCircle]

With reference to the posts from @vash445 @Didgital and @unodelacosa would it be best to go with IPA and acetone for recrystallisation?

For the first bit of dissolving in IPA, do you set it to a particular temp and then slowly add until the mdma is dissolved, or do you calculate a certain amount of IPA to add and then raise the temperature until it dissolves?

After adding the acetone, how should the cooling be managed? Just leave to cool in the ambient temperature or continue to heat and gradually reduce temperature over hours/days?

 

[vash445]

Chased Kykeon again and got the following response:

"At the moment, the techniques available in our laboratory are HPLC–MS/MS (triple quadrupole) and ¹H-NMR (with ¹³C-NMR when needed), combined with simple solvent-based sample preparation. Although we do not currently have MALDI, high-resolution MS, XRF/XRD to physically isolate the “8%” impurity fraction, we can still perform a meaningful impurity investigation with the tools we have.

Using HPLC–MS/MS, we can design a targeted method to look specifically for known synthesis byproducts, intermediates and structural analogues described in the literature, including possible inhibitory impurities such as 1-(1,3-benzodioxol-5-yl)propan-2-ol. Even without isolating the impurity fraction, MS/MS can detect many low-level components if they ionize under ESI, and we can focus our interpretation on non-MDMA signals.

With NMR, we can perform an impurity-oriented ¹H-NMR scan, which is especially good for identifying certain classes of contaminants (alcohols, aldehydes, amides, unreacted precursors). While very low-concentration impurities may fall below the NMR detection threshold, combining the information from NMR and MS/MS provides a much clearer picture of the impurity profile and can highlight unexpected components.

Based on our experience, a combined HPLC–MS/MS + NMR impurity-focused analysis can still reveal many relevant impurities without needing to physically separate them, and it is the most realistic and technically robust approach we can offer in-houseb

."

Let me know if this fits your needs, and if you have any other questions.
***************

How does that sound?

Yeah but like I said. Don't expect it to be there $150 service like I said XD I'm sure they will be reasonable

At least finally understand what you are needing or wanting to ask them to do.

 

[ThreePointCircle]

Yeah but like I said. Don't expect it to be there $150 service like I said XD I'm sure they will be reasonable

At least finally understand what you are needing or wanting to ask them to do.

So do you think their response is enough to be confident they could find something if it's there? If so I can ask them the practicalities (and cost) of proceeding

 

[vash445]

So do you think their response is enough to be confident they could find something if it's there? If so I can ask them the practicalities (and cost) of proceeding

I mean they will probably be reasonable and yes you should ask how much and steps they are willing to go thru vs what they normally do but I think they understand now

 

[Kushman3000]

COuld it be they use synthetic pre cursors instead of the real tree bark (sassafras) since its harder to get plant material then it is to make some synthetic copy of it? The soda colored x is always the best effect i tried the pure clear crystal at a tool concert and felt NO euphoria just tweaking with giants pupils. I had orange alligators in the early 2000's they were by far the greatest pills ever made. People came back over and over to grab them up real quick. I wish I still had one so I could test it. out of 1000's of pills BLue dolphins, small white spotted ones were fukn great also These orange alligators were incredible they had no comedown you didnt even feel like shit the next day. Whoever made them had to be one of the best chemist alive. Nothing has ever touched those pills. They were double stacked with an alligator with its mouth open.

 

[vash445]

COuld it be they use synthetic pre cursors instead of the real tree bark (sassafras) since its harder to get plant material then it is to make some synthetic copy of it? The soda colored x is always the best effect i tried the pure clear crystal at a tool concert and felt NO euphoria just tweaking with giants pupils. I had orange alligators in the early 2000's they were by far the greatest pills ever made. People came back over and over to grab them up real quick. I wish I still had one so I could test it. out of 1000's of pills BLue dolphins, small white spotted ones were fukn great also These orange alligators were incredible they had no comedown you didnt even feel like shit the next day. Whoever made them had to be one of the best chemist alive. Nothing has ever touched those pills. They were double stacked with an alligator with its mouth open.

It's not I've had NMR tested safrole make meh MDMA

That's what got me on this thread just scroll back like 5 years before COVID

I think it made the compound above due to dimethyltryptamine or excess methylamine

Next question?

 

[Kushman3000]

It's not I've had NMR tested safrole make meh MDMA

That's what got me on this thread just scroll back like 5 years before COVID

I think it made the compound above due to dimethyltryptamine or excess methylamine

Next question?

just cause you had a batch tested that turn out Meh doesnt prove anything. it could have been a million other factors why that batch was meh as you say. ive noticed semi synthetic and natural chemicals give the best euphoria highs like you cant compare a oxy to fent, if you know your shit you will always pick the oxy its just a better overall feeling while fent feels cold and lifeless. Plants are organic living creatures, synthetics are made in a cold steel lab with no life.

 

[ĐmantuNJofra]

Pupils checking, bruxism without control and tweaking, go dance and tweaking stops, MDA is great or just buy testers people kit you know m and m and ms. not sure fent language be spoken even in analogy or comparison here in this thread. Leave fentanil for cancer patients.

 

[unodelacosa]

just cause you had a batch tested that turn out Meh doesnt prove anything. it could have been a million other factors why that batch was meh as you say.

Full agreement here.

ive noticed semi synthetic and natural chemicals give the best euphoria highs like you cant compare a oxy to fent, if you know your shit you will always pick the oxy its just a better overall feeling while fent feels cold and lifeless. Plants are organic living creatures, synthetics are made in a cold steel lab with no life.

No, I'm sorry, I have to call this out. The notion somehow that "natural" is better than "man-made" is bullshit. First, it assumes that somehow mankind is unnatural. As if we aren't a natural part of this planet who evolved here. Also, some people claim that mushrooms are better than acid because shrooms are "natural" while LSD is synthetic. But consider: humans have been genetically modifying shrooms through selective reproduction for decades, gatekeeping reproduction for species with higher alkaloid levels. A psychedelic mushroom like P. cubensis "Penis Envy" doesn't have large enough caps or produce enough spores to compete and survive in the wild on its own. And consider how LSD is manufactured from ergot, the fungus that grows on rye.

I used to manufacture MDMA ~25 yrs ago from sassafras oil. The first step is isolating the safrole from the sassafras oil via vacuum distillation. At that point, there's no difference between synthetic safrole and naturally derived safrole. Its chemical name is 3,4-methylenedioxyallylbenzene. There is no entourage effect like we see in cannabis. The safrole is purified. Also, nature produces poisons let's not forget. There are some deadly poisonous fungi out there for example, or white oleander will kill the shit out of someone. You've got poison ivy, poison oak and poison sumac. I could go on. And on the flip, do you have any idea how valuable and important the fully manmade anesthetic, Ketamine, is to the medical world? It doesn't compromise respiration while a person can be fully anesthetized. Prior to its discovery full anesthesia required a person to be on a respirator. That's why it's listed as an essential medicine by the World Health Organization.

The WHO also recognizes fentanyl as an essential medicine. Why? Because it's so potent and cheap to manufacture. Without it, there are scores of underdeveloped nations whose hospitals could not otherwise afford opioid analgesics. It provides real pain relief to countless people worldwide. That's what it's for. Comparing oxycontin to fentanyl for their recreational "warmth" is a subjective opinion and a moot point bc that's not what they're for, not what they're designed to do. And the notion that one is better than the other because it is a semi-synthetic morphine derivative is, frankly, nonsense. Want some more examples of fully synthetic medicines that have immense value?

Well for antibiotics there are Levofloxacin and Ciprofloxacin: broad-spectrum antibiotics used to treat a wide-range of bacterial infections. There's the antiviral drugs, Oseltamivir (Tamiflu), and Acyclovir which is used to treat herpes simplex virus infections. You've got Lisinopril, an ACE inhibitor used to treat high blood pressure and heart failure, plus there's Losartan, an angiotensin II receptor blocker used to treat hypertension. Haloperidol, used to treat schizophrenia and other psychotic disorders, is entirely synthetic, as is Risperidone, an atypical antipsychotic used to treat schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and irritability associated with autism.

How about the anticonvulsants, Carbamazepine—used to treat epilepsy and neuropathic pain—and Lamotrigine for bipolar disorder, also used to treat epilepsy? Or hell, Ibuprofen and Acetaminophen (Paracetamol) are synthetic. There's Claritin and Zyrtec, synthetic antihistamines. Lipitor and Zocor to control cholesterol levels and reduce risks of heart disease. Or how about Prilosec and Nexium, proton pump inhibitors that give ppl relief from gastroesophageal reflux disease (GERD) and peptic ulcers. These synthetic medicines play crucial roles in various medical treatments and have significantly improved healthcare outcomes.

Apologies if it seems like I'm coming down hard on you, @Kushman3000, but I'm compelled to push back against that claim whenever I encounter it… Also, I've seen Tool live seven times now. To me, their shows aren't really MDMA events. That's definitely a show for dropping acid and sneaking in a DMT vape for prying open my third eye!

 

[vash445]

just cause you had a batch tested that turn out Meh doesnt prove anything. it could have been a million other factors why that batch was meh as you say. ive noticed semi synthetic and natural chemicals give the best euphoria highs like you cant compare a oxy to fent, if you know your shit you will always pick the oxy its just a better overall feeling while fent feels cold and lifeless. Plants are organic living creatures, synthetics are made in a cold steel lab with no life.

Safrole isn't just magically gonna fix the issue is what I'm saying

While they could be outside forces outside of that. Such as synthetic pathways

It's pretty obvious just using safrole isn't gonna make magic fall from the sky vs meh

I'm not opposed to saying that things changed with glaciated MDP2P

But I am against saying hey it must just be 100% safrole vs ethyl glaciated MDP2P sorta deal

I'm not opposed to saying something around the time of safrole to MDP2P ketones things changed

But if you are asking IT MUST BE safrole

And safrole will fix the issue

No no it won't

And I can still get safrole in 5-20 + liters ammount no issues if you look in USA.